Sad Model A Start

[Frank Miller]

Opened up Fark.com and this was the first news story. Maybe someone else has more details but keep the family in your thoughts.

http://www.kansascity.com/2010/12/24...fter-ford.html

[Barry B./ Ma.]

Merry Christmas Frank. Sounds like it could have been a Shay as it said "replicar" in the article but a picture would help, very unfortunate but hopefully no one will die from it.

[Frank Miller]

Merry Christmas to you too Barry.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

The definition of "kit car" could mean many things to many reporters. Truly sad for anyone involved.

.

[28RPU]

On the TV video it shows it to be a fiberglass street rod roadster.Four people in a fiberglass Model A roadster,..must have had two in the rumble seat.Icy roads, be careful out there.

[1930fordor]

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link to video
http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-stor...,2336488.story

[b ramsey]

so, seat belts would have melted the ice and the car wouldnt have crashed?

[Grapejuice]

Originally Posted by 1930fordor

link to video
http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-stor...,2336488.story

Well, that pretty much settles the seat belt issue. The car was equipped with them.
Which brings up a point that has occurred to me since my recent purchase of an open car; I'm not so sure I want seat belts in my Cabriolet. If I rolled it over like that and was attached to the vehicle, it seems more likely that I would be seriously injured or killed. If I didn't have a belt, I might be thrown free of the vehicle before it rolled over. I would almost certainly be injured, but at least I wouldn't be attached to a topless vehicle that has rolled upside down.
If I had a solid metal closed car, I would probably consider belts though.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by 1930fordor

link to video
http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-stor...,2336488.story

Thanks for sharing! Merry Christmas to you and all!
Note:
For those commenting re: seat belt installation....watch the news report video.
The reporter states that seat belts were installed in the car....but, "police NOT SURE whether the belts were worn". Go figure. Anyway, this vehicle is about as close to Model A....as corvette.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Grapejuice

Well, that pretty much settles the seat belt issue. The car was equipped with them.
Which brings up a point that has occurred to me since my recent purchase of an open car; I'm not so sure I want seat belts in my Cabriolet. If I rolled it over like that and was attached to the vehicle, it seems more likely that I would be seriously injured or killed. If I didn't have a belt, I might be thrown free of the vehicle before it rolled over. I would almost certainly be injured, but at least I wouldn't be attached to a topless vehicle that has rolled upside down.
If I had a solid metal closed car, I would probably consider belts though.

Alan,
Precisely! So, how about installing a 'roll bar' on a ragtop/topless model A? How about a law requiring such?? Through personal experience, I know that there is some validity to your thoughts/statements/position regarding seat belts vs no seat belts!

[JoeWay]

Originally Posted by Grapejuice

...not so sure I want seat belts in my Cabriolet. If I rolled it over like that and was attached to the vehicle, it seems more likely that I would be seriously injured or killed. If I didn't have a belt, I might be thrown free of the vehicle before it rolled over. I would almost certainly be injured, but at least I wouldn't be attached to a topless vehicle that has rolled upside down...

Good point. I am a seatbelt fanatic. They almost certainly saved my life in 1968 when I rolled my VW and the door came open. I have installed seatbelts in every old car I've put on the road, and that's a lot. For the last 30 years or so, I've installed shoulder belts, sometimes going to quite a bit of trouble to achieve solid mounting--most recently in my '29 Tudor. I use them religiously, as does my entire family.

But my T speedster has no belts. There's nothing but the windshield posts above the belt line, and they would crumple instantly. For this and other reasons, such as brakes, it is strictly a back-road low-speed car for me, and I drive it EXTREMELY defensively.

I hope to have a '30-'31 open pickup some day. I will want to drive it in a normal manner, including on highways, so I will have to revisit this issue at that time. I wonder if I could fit a roll bar under the top without have it too conspicuous?

Joe

[28RPU]

I would bet that a real Model A would not have slid or rolled.Did you see the size of the tires on that roadster? Too wide to drive on snow and ice.Stock 21inchers would have been more stable I suggest.

[Ron in Quincy]

I've been driving A's, starting when I was in high school in early 40's, have never had seat belts in any of my A's since 1962 when I got into the hobby. I feel its should be left to the individual to make the decision. Look how few times we have seen anything posted about accidents involving A's on the Ford Barn !!!! Also if seat belts were shown to save lives in A accidients I'm sure the insurance company's would require them to be installed before they would insure us ?

Just my opinion,

Ron

[mkmskm]

I live in KC and let me tell you yesterday was NOT the day to have a hot rod or specialty car on the road. We had a light dusting of snow with temperatures hovering at freezing creating black ice situations like what they encountered.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by mkmskm

I live in KC and let me tell you yesterday was NOT the day to have a hot rod or specialty car on the road. We had a light dusting of snow with temperatures hovering at freezing creating black ice situations like what they encountered.

Even in Minnesota, where you'd think they would know how to drive on ice and snow, I try to stay off the roads until they are dry again. I mainly started that practice to keep the rust from salt to a minimum, but after watching the news showing all the accidents and rollovers with each snowfall, I really don't want to be on the road with those drivers.

[Dennis L Oberer]

It is my opinion I stated above...and I will stand by it......

I wont ride in any car without them.

No one can ride in my car without buckling up.

I have a wife here that has serous pain issues every day because we did not have seat belts in the Mustang when got hit.

Personal experience taught me...I hope you dont have the same thing happen to you.

Dennis L Oberer
Green Bay WI

[Barry B./ Ma.]

I have them in my roadster and coupe. None in the rumble seat of the roadster because I don't let anyone ride there. I debated putting them in the roadster but they don't always roll over in an accident and I wouldn't want to be thrown out or up so I put them in. My wife feelsmore secure as the flimsy door could pop open unexpectedly over a big bump.

[Kevin in NJ]

Lets take opinion out of the argument.

The science says that seat belts are going help you much more than hurt you.

YES there are times were seat belts are not going to be a good thing. The vast majority of the times the seat belt is your friend. I do not know about you, but I prefer to make my bets on a table stacked more in my favor. You are much less likely to lose.

The problem is psychological as the few accidents that the seat belt is a problem are also the accidents that make the news.
So out of the few thousand accidents that happened that day the bad accident that someone might have gotten hurt due to freak problems makes national attention. Then everyone decides maybe seat belts may be a bad thing. What you missed it is the overwhelming number minor accidents that happen each day where people are needlessly hurt from not wearing seat belts.

Ride on an ambulance for 14 years and you get a different picture. I have been to hundreds of accidents and taken people to the hospital for very preventable injuries. Only one freak accident did I see where seat belts would have made it worse. In that case a Ford Escort was made about 3 foot wide in the middle when hitting 2 telephone poles. The driver broke her arm and the passenger I am sure had life long back injuries.

Seat belts are about percentages. The science has demonstrated that you are significantly better off with seat belts.

Clearly that car was not a Model except in shape. It was a kit car and if it had an A title it was not legal.

[Dennis L Oberer]

Just this thought.....you fellows that say you will be safer in an open car by being thrown clear....well my wife was in an open car (the Mustang) and yes she was thrown clear...clear down the roadway. Lucky another vehicle didnt make her part of its grillework.

The knucklehead that t-boned us blew through a yield sign and hit the side of the car at less than 25 mph.

My wife was was thrown some 60 feet in the air and had and HAS NUMEROUS damage to her as a result.

I think the vast marjority of accidents will likely not roll the A....but what do you hang on to if you dont have a seat belt to keep you in? Even in a fender bender?

You will be ejected and that it is far more probable that the car rolling over on you.

SO go down to your friendly Ford dealer and look at a 2011 (for example) Mustang convertible. See any roll bars? no.

See seat belts? Yes..because I am sure that even though they are mandated; Ford has probably LOTS of evidence that staying in the seat is FAR perferrable to being ejected.

I expect insurance companies are going to start sooner or later checking on the older cars and if you dont have seatbelts your rates will be astronomical or not available at all as your risk is too great for them to cover you.

There...I have said enough...

Do whatever you want...

Dennis L Oberer
Green Bay WI

[Dick Carne]

I suppose that either position could be argued, but both of my "running" Model A's are open cars, so I would tend to agree with Alan above in those instances, namely that I would prefer to be ejected from the car rather than being stapped down or in, and in the event of a possible overturning of the car, be subjected to the possibility of being crushed in that event. While I think most all of us have adoped something of a defensive driving posture when taking these cars out, the "common sense" aspect of this incident underscores the essential requirement to be sensible when making the decision to drive in anything less than reasonable conditions. And while I would consider my cars to be fairly well restored, I also recognize that the engineering limitations of these cars is no where close to those automobiles being currently produced, suggesting yet again the needs to both drive more defensively and to consider less than optimum driving conditions before choosing to venture out. These are just my opinions, but again, I echo the sentiment that the matter of seat belts should be left to individual discretion, and hopefully not mandated by either state or federal governments. Perhaps most importantly, I pray for the recovery of those injured in this mishap, and trust that the rest of us may learn from this tragedy.

Dick