Could Edelbrock cast a flathead block

[aonemarine]

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

I've often thought of this, and I really don't think it would be much trouble. There are very accurate blueprints of the block. You could even upgrade some of the weak areas. Using computer generated tooling and CNC machining, I'm sure that you could have a much better block made form a better material. I would have Caterpillar do the casting as they have a modern foundry and do allot of NASCAR work. Now if you had a large quantity done you could bring the cost down to a very reasonable price, say 5 to 8 grand apiece.

And where can I obtain a set of these drawings?? I keep getting pointed into a direction, then come up empty handed
I have considered casting a full scale flathead block more than once. Its not the casting that I see as a problem. It is the expense of machining the casting.

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by aonemarine

And where can I obtain a set of these drawings?? I keep getting pointed into a direction, then come up empty handed
I have considered casting a full scale flathead block more than once. Its not the casting that I see as a problem. It is the expense of machining the casting.

See the link in post #5, they claimed to have the CAD drawings and proto-types.

Newly Engineered Flathead Block

Through a combined effort of Motor City and Shadow Rods it’s finally here. A new state of the art Flathead Engine block. Due to health problems back in 2002 I was forced to close shop and pass the ball to Jon Hall, founder and president of Shadow Rods.

Any one that knows Jon knows that he is a perfectionist to the utmost degree. That makes him the perfect candidate to do this project.

First let’s ask- why do a new Flathead Block? Answer: They are just getting too hard to find. On an average you can easily go though 3 or 4 blocks just to find a good one. That can mean endless hours of research just to find one. Purchase it for $100 to $500 just to spend a week taking it apart only to find out the block is cracked or rusted through from the inside out.

Some of the other problems are over heating, oil consumption, excessive crank case pressure, and oil leaking due to bad gaskets and especially bad front and rear main oil seals.

Other draw backs are due to a poor design which include lack of lower end strength due to only 3 main bearings, and insufficient horse power and torque due to poor ports and valve sizing resulting in a very inefficient motor. And last but not least small bores resulting in small cubic inches (STD 239 cu in.)

To do a block and not answer those questions would be a sin, so our new block is most importantly new. Absolutely no inside rust, no trapped or hidden core sand that can be a cause of over heating.

This new motor is designed for modern lip seals (no more leaking). It has heavy duty main caps including a 4 bolt center made out of ductile iron, eliminating any lower end strength concerns. Valve guides permanently pressed into the block drastically reducing oil consumption and assuring a good valve job.

The ports on this new motor were developed by Paul Schalk (Doctor Flow) on the flow bench. The results were incorporated into the new casting eliminating any need to port and polish.

A redesigned oiling system allowing you to run an oil filtration system with out a special pump or hose inside the oil pan.

And finally at last a big bore. 3 ½ (3.500”) finish bore size from the original 221 cubic inch that had a bore size of 3 1/16 (3.062”). That is a 7/16 (.437”) increase giving you with a stock crank 3 ¾ (3.750”) stroke 289 cubic inches with a 4” stroke 305 4 1/8” stroke 316 cu in, 4 ¼” 327, 4 3/8” 339. That is pretty dog gone significant.

DON'T ANYONE GET EXCITED, THIS ALL WENT BELLY UP SEVERAL YEARS AGO.

[sidevalve8ba]

Originally Posted by JSeery

See the link in post #5, they claimed to have the CAD drawings and proto-types.

Newly Engineered Flathead Block

Through a combined effort of Motor City and Shadow Rods it’s finally here. A new state of the art Flathead Engine block. Due to health problems back in 2002 I was forced to close shop and pass the ball to Jon Hall, founder and president of Shadow Rods.

Any one that knows Jon knows that he is a perfectionist to the utmost degree. That makes him the perfect candidate to do this project.

First let’s ask- why do a new Flathead Block? Answer: They are just getting too hard to find. On an average you can easily go though 3 or 4 blocks just to find a good one. That can mean endless hours of research just to find one. Purchase it for $100 to $500 just to spend a week taking it apart only to find out the block is cracked or rusted through from the inside out.

Some of the other problems are over heating, oil consumption, excessive crank case pressure, and oil leaking due to bad gaskets and especially bad front and rear main oil seals.

Other draw backs are due to a poor design which include lack of lower end strength due to only 3 main bearings, and insufficient horse power and torque due to poor ports and valve sizing resulting in a very inefficient motor. And last but not least small bores resulting in small cubic inches (STD 239 cu in.)

To do a block and not answer those questions would be a sin, so our new block is most importantly new. Absolutely no inside rust, no trapped or hidden core sand that can be a cause of over heating.

This new motor is designed for modern lip seals (no more leaking). It has heavy duty main caps including a 4 bolt center made out of ductile iron, eliminating any lower end strength concerns. Valve guides permanently pressed into the block drastically reducing oil consumption and assuring a good valve job.

The ports on this new motor were developed by Paul Schalk (Doctor Flow) on the flow bench. The results were incorporated into the new casting eliminating any need to port and polish.

A redesigned oiling system allowing you to run an oil filtration system with out a special pump or hose inside the oil pan.

And finally at last a big bore. 3 ½ (3.500”) finish bore size from the original 221 cubic inch that had a bore size of 3 1/16 (3.062”). That is a 7/16 (.437”) increase giving you with a stock crank 3 ¾ (3.750”) stroke 289 cubic inches with a 4” stroke 305 4 1/8” stroke 316 cu in, 4 ¼” 327, 4 3/8” 339. That is pretty dog gone significant.

DON'T ANYONE GET EXCITED, THIS ALL WENT BELLY UP SEVERAL YEARS AGO.

I understand they had a running engine at one time and even had it in a car and were putting some miles on it. I wonder what the downfall was? Can anyone shed any light on this?

Ted

[rockfla]

Not to beat a dead horse or be contrary
And again IF you watch the process that Ferrari uses today to cast new (and old) engines, it would be very easy to do especially if a CAD drawing exist on a computer. NOW ,the cost to have such equipment OR the wide spread usage of such equipment may be a different story. AGAIN, Ferrari went from a CAD design to a 3D printing of the block (in some form of low heat plastic, then poured a harder higher heat tolerant molding wax in the 3D block for a negative of the block, Then melted out the 3D printed block, then did sand cast molds of the negative and cast the blocks. VERY simple and done primarily by computer and 3D printing (OR Negative 3D printing) and a 3D sand casting mold machine. Watch "How Its Made" supercar series. VERY slick operation. AN within this operation one would think that within the CAD program you could MAYBE make improvements to the original block with respect to thicknesses and such.

[flatheadmurre]

Originally Posted by rockfla

Not to beat a dead horse or be contrary
And again IF you watch the process that Ferrari uses today to cast new (and old) engines, it would be very easy to do especially if a CAD drawing exist on a computer. NOW ,the cost to have such equipment OR the wide spread usage of such equipment may be a different story. AGAIN, Ferrari went from a CAD design to a 3D printing of the block (in some form of low heat plastic, then poured a harder higher heat tolerant molding wax in the 3D block for a negative of the block, Then melted out the 3D printed block, then did sand cast molds of the negative and cast the blocks. VERY simple and done primarily by computer and 3D printing (OR Negative 3D printing) and a 3D sand casting mold machine. Watch "How Its Made" supercar series. VERY slick operation. AN within this operation one would think that within the CAD program you could MAYBE make improvements to the original block with respect to thicknesses and such.

To make a lost waxmold the size of a flathead block and get all out of it isn´t easy...
3D printing it in PLA and then heating it up enough to make it burn up is more likely to work.
Cores are made differently and chemicals are added to make it cure and be tuffer then the rest of the mold and you use steel wire to keep it in place.
How do you hang the cores in a lost waxmold ??
Its not as easy as it can look at first sight.

[aonemarine]

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Originally Posted by flatheadmurre

To make a lost waxmold the size of a flathead block and get all out of it isn´t easy...
3D printing it in PLA and then heating it up enough to make it burn up is more likely to work.
Cores are made differently and chemicals are added to make it cure and be tuffer then the rest of the mold and you use steel wire to keep it in place.
How do you hang the cores in a lost waxmold ??
Its not as easy as it can look at first sight.

With core wires or remove the sleeves. Ive been staring at this 3d printed block for a couple months thinking about it. Time i GOT OFF MY BUTT AND POURED IT...

[flatheadmurre]

Originally Posted by aonemarine

With core wires or remove the sleeves. Ive been staring at this 3d printed block for a couple months thinking about it. Time i GOT OFF MY BUTT AND POURED IT...

You have a complete block done already with compensation for shrinking and all ?
If so youre on my list of heroes...thats a lot ot work !

[aonemarine]

Originally Posted by flatheadmurre

You have a complete block done already with compensation for shrinking and all ?
If so youre on my list of heroes...thats a lot ot work !

Not mine, its Flat32's. Had to up size alot of my equipment to be able to do it.
New flasks, vacuum chamber for the investment and new vacuum assist chamber for pouring the casting. Got it all together now but have a back log of other casting projects that Im trying to finish up. Still though I expect the casting to be a failure using the current materials. But you never know I may get lucky
Oh yea, its a model not full sized Im experimenting with every new printing filament that has come about. If its not one problem its another. But I enjoy it.

[JWL]

The Kirby aluminum Flathead block was not like our Ford blocks except it was a Flathead. Making a Flathead block would be a VERY difficult (expensive) project for ANY company. It would only be easy on television.

[Henry Floored]

One could simplify the casting a bit to make the job easier. How about eliminating those removable valve guides for one? I am assuming that they were done that way originally for the high volume production machinery to have access to machine the lifter bores. They cured that problem in the Lincoln 337's I believe.

[miller91]

http://www.donovanengines.com/donovan-model-d-block/

http://www.donovanengines.com/wp-con.../05/ModelD.pdf

Donovan makes the "D" block and accessories, an alloy knock-off of the A/B four. Of course a relatively much simpler casting than the tortuous 8 with the exhaust passages, etc. Anything can be done...but it's cost. The Donovan D is upwards of 10,000 dollars. A flathead V-8 would be easily double at this quality. Many damaged blocks may be saved, so even if you spent tons of money stitch welding an 8, it would still beat the French flatheads, never mind a CAD/modern cast project like the D. I think people write off too many salvageable blocks personally. These V-8's breed a level of passion bordering on fanaticism, which I feel myself. So be good to them, and explore block repair...and don't expect a whooped out, blown stroker tuned within an inch of it's life to last forever. I love a full race flatty, but...a grenade comes to mind.