Help identifying a 1931 roadster

[Barry B./ Ma.]

[QUOTE=36 conv sedan;1222758]Marco's roadster is a great reference, thanks!

I will of course get the Judging guidelines that some of you have mentioned.

Mexico is very complex regarding car's paperworks... I will have to see if I can get it back to registration with the "original" number, A390xxxx, and if possible, then I will look at restamping the engine.

So Barry, one piece splash aprons and round speedometer were also used from late 1930. Any ideas of when the 1931 grill was started to be used? Would that be already for 1931 model year cars?

Thanks,
victor

Victor,
I would assume the 31 shell was used starting with the release of the 1931 models in Janurary. I had an early 31 town sedan that had a 1930 shell on it but I traded it for a 1931 just to make the car right. I did hear the left over 1930 steel shells were used on the early 31 pickup trucks but don't know this as fact.
Barry B./ Ma.

[36 conv sedan]

Mine clearly shows no inverted teardrop shape in the fuel filter area... so I guess it is not an indented firewall car. Up to now, I did not know what was the 'indented' part. I though it meant the area behind the engine not being flat. Thanks!

[36 conv sedan]

I found an interesting link that explains the indented firewall, which according to the page was: " phased into factory production starting in April 1931 and reached 100% production use in May 1931 according to a factory service bulletin. However, the indented firewall was only one part of a much larger design change that encompassed replacing the gasoline tank in all Model A & AA production. If you have the Ford Service Bulletin for May 1931, page 560, refer to it while you read this article."

This is the page: http://www.ahooga.com/notebook/howto/3/howto3.shtml

So, I guess with the elements that many of you gave me, it is pretty safe to call the car an early 1931 model, based on the engine being assembled in september 30 and with the 1931 features like the one piece splash shields, the circular speedometer and the 3 screws in the hinges.

The mistery is still the top which apparently uses standard irons, but shows the Deluxe windshield height and top proportions.

My only doubt is wether I should leave the 1930 grill or start looking for a 1931 grill, so the car would be more correct. Any ideas?

thanks!
Victor

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by 36 conv sedan

I found an interesting link that explains the indented firewall, which according to the page was: " phased into factory production starting in April 1931 and reached 100% production use in May 1931 according to a factory service bulletin. However, the indented firewall was only one part of a much larger design change that encompassed replacing the gasoline tank in all Model A & AA production. If you have the Ford Service Bulletin for May 1931, page 560, refer to it while you read this article."

This is the page: http://www.ahooga.com/notebook/howto/3/howto3.shtml

So, I guess with the elements that many of you gave me, it is pretty safe to call the car an early 1931 model, based on the engine being assembled in september 30 and with the 1931 features like the one piece splash shields, the circular speedometer and the 3 screws in the hinges.

The mistery is still the top which apparently uses standard irons, but shows the Deluxe windshield height and top proportions.

My only doubt is wether I should leave the 1930 grill or start looking for a 1931 grill, so the car would be more correct. Any ideas?

thanks!
Victor

Victor,

There is another question that I can't answer. Did Ford build Model A's in Mexico? Did Model A's in Mexico come from a plant in South America? Most of the answers on this board refer to US domestic production. Your radiator shell could very well be correct for a car produced in Mexico.

Charlie Stephens

[Barry B./ Ma.]

Charlie, according to an old used car book I have, Victors engine number was assigned to the Somerville Ma. assembly plant, that's if my book is right and that number represents his original engine.(Somerville engine numbers for 1931 were 3903993 thru 3943814). As I said before I would look for a 31 radiator shell and put that on. On second thought if that engine is the original and date of building the engine is 9-08-30 the car could have been a late 30, depending on the final assembly lag time.

[36 conv sedan]

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Yes, Ford was established here in 1925 and has been building cars in Mexico since 1930, from what I can find in the net. But my car came from the USA as there is a reference in one of the papers I got stated that it was imported in 1951...

So, it is a US model most probably assembled in Sommerville, as Barry says.

I understand I am in a bit of a dilema. If we go by the round speedometer, 3 screw bottom hinge and one piece splash shield, I guess it would be safe calling it a 1931 model, which adding the 13" windshield would proove the car as a 1931 Deluxe roadster.

If we take the September engine date, and considering it could have been used up to 3 months later (I read that somewhere, but don't recall where) then it could be a late 1930... in which case I don't know if the 3 points mentioned above were already in use or not... and in that case, with no sidemounts, it would be not a Deluxe but a regular roadster... which of course brings me back to square one in the sense of not knowing if the car was or not a Deluxe, as my main doubt still is... the top bows, which show the correct proportion to the windshield and do not seem to have been modified.

Windshield does look ok in my opinion (but I am attaching pics) and the stanchions appear original, with rubber plugs covering threaded holes (I assume for wind wings) and a sort of flat spot which i guess was intended for the mirror... which my car does not have, and you will see in the pics my friend found some sort of rotating convex small mirrors that would appear to work great without altering anything as they attach themselves to the glass with no glue or anything... rubber ventose, I guess it would be called).

So, I guess I am more comfortable calling it a 1931 Deluxe early model, with already the 1931 features with the exception of the grill, which I can try to locate and change, and the correct top bows, which I suppose I can find some day (though it is not a big priority at this time). I think those things would render it like a 'correct' 1931 model... but I am not sure how this particular car really came.

I guess the clue that would let us know exactly would be to know when were the 1931 modifications (grill, one piece splash shield, round speedometer and 3 screw lower hinge). Was that starting new year, January 1931 or starting model year in late 1930.

[Bob C]

The windshield stanchions do not look original, they almost look like they are
aluminum. On the left side one there is no hole for the mirror.

Bob

[36 conv sedan]

Originally Posted by Bob C

The windshield stanchions do not look original, they almost look like they are
aluminum. On the left side one there is no hole for the mirror.

Bob

Wow! That is a hard blow. I also thought they were aluminum or some other softer metal. I will have to check on that and report, hopefully tomorrow.

Were originals supposed to be steel?

Thanks!
Victor

[36 conv sedan]

Originally Posted by forever4

How do you know your engine number is original? Likely it isn't, but if it is the same as the frame number, then maybe a 1930 standard

I don't know for sure, but I got the number from the papers I have with the car, which are not from the 30's but from the 60's. One of them makes reference to the car being imported in 1951, so at least since that time it must have had the Sept 1930 number. And since it coincides closely to what the car apparently is (a late 1930 or early 1931, prior to the indented firewall) I am just assuing it must be correct.

I understand the chassis number is under the body... right? Is that on the left side, at any particular location? I hope it can be accesible someway... if not, I guess that when I repaint the car, probably in a few years, I will remove the body and check well on that...

thanks!
Victor

[Barry B./ Ma.]

Yes, the number should be on top of the frame under the left side of the cowl, near the rear engine mount so you would have to lift the body up a few inches to see it and don't be surprised if it's not legible due to corrosion. The stanchions should be stainless steel and not aluminum. I bought mine from Snyders and they fit well.

[Binger]

It seems that a lot of ppl here are forgetting that the engine is not an A its a B. So the motor number will not be any help to identifying the standard/deluxe question. I bet it was restamped to match the title. Looking at the pics pretty closely it looks like it has an A transmission on a B motor. in the picture of the carb you cannot see the transmission flange on the oil pan like a B motor would. has the car been converted over to 12 volts? I see a ballast resister on the fire wall. Still curious about the Juice brakes and what was done to convert it over. Keep us posted!

[36 conv sedan]

Originally Posted by Barry B./ Ma.

The stanchions should be stainless steel and not aluminum. I bought mine from Snyders and they fit well.

Ouch... mine do not appear to be stainless, but aluminum... not sure about that, but they are marked where the top butterfly screws attached, therefore it is not a very strong metal... aluminum, I guess. Good to know that Snyders has replacements!


Thank you Barry... someday I will check on that number.

[36 conv sedan]

Originally Posted by Binger

It seems that a lot of ppl here are forgetting that the engine is not an A its a B. So the motor number will not be any help to identifying the standard/deluxe question. I bet it was restamped to match the title. Looking at the pics pretty closely it looks like it has an A transmission on a B motor. in the picture of the carb you cannot see the transmission flange on the oil pan like a B motor would. has the car been converted over to 12 volts? I see a ballast resister on the fire wall. Still curious about the Juice brakes and what was done to convert it over. Keep us posted!

Yes, I am sure the B engine was restamped and by the way with a very old number, who knows why... no clue. And yes, it was terribly converted to 12 volts, with the battery on the engine compartment. I really want to remove that soon and get it where it should be (I guess under the seat's floor, but haven't checked yet), and eventually once I get a generator and voltage regulator, convert it back to 6 volts.

Anyhow...

I took the car out on it's first spin yesterday. I was very gladly surprised. I had only driven one model A before, a great pickup owned by a close friend. Mine moves much more agile. That could be the 10 additional HP (or 25% increase!), but it also moves great. I don't know if transmission was changed or not, but will try to take and post pics soon. I remember driving my friend's A at around 40 mph, and not comfortable with more... and mine yesterday I drove it at around 45 mph like it was nothing... and for a time I was doing 50 and there was still room to go more... so perhaps it was changed... I will report with pics.

Thanks!
Victor

[Keith True]

Just a couple of things to add to everything.I saw you mention the round speedo a couple of times,that is not just a 31 feature.It came into use around June of 1930.I have two June of 30 cars with the round speedos.Also,the side mount spare on the deluxe cars were dropped for 31.Both the deluxe and standard had rear mounted spares in 31.I don't have the judging standards in front of me,but that info is in there.Real handy book to have.A 31 standard would be a rare bird to have,I believe around 6000 were made,and everybody that got their hands on them in the 60's and 70's deluxified them,so that cut down the number of survivors even more.

[36 conv sedan]

Thanks for pointing out the round speedometer being available earlier. What about the 3 screws for the lower hinge or the one piece splash shield? I guess I will be able to check in detail once I get the books, which I ordered already.

I don't know if my car was probably deluxified or not... if the windshield posts are aluminum (I have to check) then it could be, as there is also the issue of the top irons in Standard style. It does surprise me that the car's height with roof seems to be in the correct proportions of the Deluxe roadster, but the top irons are the Standard style, and they don't seem cut or anything.

The car will remain as is for now, I guess for a good number of years, and when restored, it will probably be easier to source the top irons of the Deluxe instead of the stanchions and windshield of the Standard car... so I will probably restore it as a Deluxe. I will keep my eyes (and mind) open for the parts needed to correct it, once I restore it.

Thanks!

[Charlie Stephens]

If you go to a car show in the US and there are 10 deluxe roadsters and one standard you will find 10 people crowded around the standard and a couple around the deluxe. Sometimes it pays to be different. That plus it is cheaper to restore a standard (that is why they sold for less).

Charlie Stephens

[36 conv sedan]

Charlie, thanks! Yes, I understand that point, but I don't want to alter the car much. So far, from what I can see, there is no real proof that the car was a Standard or a Deluxe... in one case I need to correct one thing, top irons, and in the other, stanchions (probably) and windshield). I prefer the looks of the Deluxe, as rare as the Standard is, so if I have to opt for one of the other, I think it will be the Deluxe. Time will tell. As I have mentioned, I don't plan on doing much to it, at least as for the looks of it.

Today my mechanic is here and we already removed the radio, speakers, antenna, extra horn, check on timing... and I can report on findings and ask more doubts... in my next post.

Thanks again!
victor

[36 conv sedan]

Here is a pic of the transmission with the adapted brake cylinder on the way, and also one of the silencer, which is larger on one end than the other, sort of a cone...

Do they look like what is supposed to have?

[Bob C]

Yes muffler and transmission are correct. The master cylinder is
mounted where the battery should be.

Bob

[36 conv sedan]

And here is my distributor. I am hoping it is also a wrong cap the one it has, but I prefer to ask... does it look like the correct distributor for a model B or model A?