Steering Column Mount Conversion, Early to Late

[Tomy Turbos]

Hi guys. I need to avail myself to your wisdom.

I have a customer's '29 A which has been decommissioned for close to 20 years and which I have been assigned to bring back to life. Most of the process has been straightforward, HOWEVER, we have the perennial 'weepy' Fuel Tank leak at the Steering Column Bracket.

On removal from the car and clean-up of the area in question it is evident that this has at some point been previously addressed. I can see brazing, but the original rivets are intact. In other words, the 'fix' didn't work.

I have read that the Late Bracket can be put in the Early car. I'm not finding any further detail on the process though. Since I pride myself on "When I say it's fixed, end of sentence", I want to make the best choice for my customer. Ergo, I am seeking the advice of wiser minds. (That's YOU Guys!)

This car is not a nut-and-bolt resto (It has Suzuki Turn Signals...). Still, I am careful in which compromises I make to its originality.

What I am not finding anywhere is a picture of how/where the Late Bracket mounts to the car. This might be all I need to muddle through.

If it helps for you to know this, the Existing Mount is the 4-Rivet, under-Tank design. Everything I can glean so far is that switching to the later design would be a preferred method of ensuring the problem does not recur within my lifetime.

I'm just trying to get a sense of how this is supposed to work before I order any parts.

Thanks in advance!

[2manycars]

I did this conversion on Barry's coupe. It required a spacer between the cowl lip where the gas tanks bolts on, and the bracket, as the early car has a different profile. I dont remember the thickness of the spacer, but if you take off the dash rail and place the bracket on the steering column, it will become appearant where it goes, and what spacer you will need.

[Tim B.]

Search forums for "changing from a 29 to 31 steering bracket". Reply 8 has a link to Mile V's pictures for installing the bracket in a 28/29. Sorry but for some reason the link won't copy and paste for me.

Tim

[Randy in ca]

Click on search link below - will give several past threads including good pictures for both open and closed models.


https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/search...archid=6196313

[Mikeinnj]

Originally Posted by randy in ca

click on search link below - will give several past threads including good pictures for both open and closed models.


https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/search...archid=6196313

bad link

[Randy in ca]

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Strange, worked with no problem right after I posted it.

Accomplish the same thing by doing an advanced search for Steering (bracket,brace) - should bring up about 18 old threads with lots of good pictures and info.

[Mike V. Florida]

Hows this;

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showpo...03&postcount=8

[Sunnybrook Farm]

A real design flaw was to mount that bracket on the fuel tank, in a wreck it could give you a lap full of gasoline. Probably why they moved all fuel lines outside the passenger compartment and came up with the new steering mount in 31. I don't have one but I would say that 31s are the safest model A's.

[Tomy Turbos]

Thanks guys! Mikes post in the other thread was exactly what I needed to see.

One of the nice aspects to doing this is that it is easily deleted, should someone want to go all-original.

Does anyone have an opinion on 86ing the original bracket altogether? I still have to deal with the leak. I have the Bill Hirsch 'kit', which includes putty, etch and coating. The Tank has been flushed out with ethyl acetate and reagent alcohol to remove the remaining {ahem} 'fuel', and I see no rust at all. I'm not completely confident though that just coating the inside plus eliminating the cause (the poorly designed Column Mount) will effectively make this FIXED.

It should be fairly simple to grind off the Rivets and un-braze the Mount, then putty that area. But I like to know before I go.

[Tomy Turbos]

Originally Posted by Sunnybrook Farm

A real design flaw was to mount that bracket on the fuel tank, in a wreck it could give you a lap full of gasoline. Probably why they moved all fuel lines outside the passenger compartment and came up with the new steering mount in 31. I don't have one but I would say that 31s are the safest model A's.

Yeah, it's also kind of funny that the problem was solved at the end of the Model run.

I have pondered the idea of putting a reinforcement plate on the Tank, between it and the Bracket, and wonder why the Old Man didn't do this in the first place.

[Barry B./ Ma.]

Originally Posted by 2manycars

I did this conversion on Barry's coupe. It required a spacer between the cowl lip where the gas tanks bolts on, and the bracket, as the early car has a different profile. I dont remember the thickness of the spacer, but if you take off the dash rail and place the bracket on the steering column, it will become appearant where it goes, and what spacer you will need.

That strip is about 3/16" thick, can be aluminum. The thickness may vary from car to car and don't forget you can loosen the steering gear frame mounting nuts and adjust for most of the space difference. On my 29 tudor I didn't need a spacer so mount the long bracket first to the column to see what you need. Word of caution, don't use the lower bracket and make sure the column doesn't contact it after mounting the new long bracket, the two clamps will fight each other in body/ frame flex and the lower clamp position will start leaking again. I used Permatex metal gas tank repair kit to seal the lower bracket to the tank, that was temporary and it 's still good after 10 years.

[Tomy Turbos]

Originally Posted by Barry B./ Ma.

That strip is about 3/16" thick, can be aluminum. The thickness may vary from car to car and don't forget you can loosen the steering gear frame mounting nuts and adjust for most of the space difference. On my 29 tudor I didn't need a spacer so mount the long bracket first to the column to see what you need. Word of caution, don't use the lower bracket and make sure the column doesn't contact it after mounting the new long bracket, the two clamps will fight each other in body/ frame flex and the lower clamp position will start leaking again. I used Permatex metal gas tank repair kit to seal the lower bracket to the tank, that was temporary and it 's still good after 10 years.

This brings several things to mind.

One is that Mike's post above says 3/8" for the spacer but it looks to be 1/4.

Two is that Aluminum doesn't have the same strength as steel, therefore it needs be thicker to produce the same result -- though it is far easier to work with.

From an engineering standpoint the problem is that the point of stress is being moved. If the spacing was the same this would not be an issue and I'd simply use PVC Lathe as the stock or even [gasp!] 1/4" Plywood. There is a significant load involved though and I don't want to merely transfer the problem from one part of the car to another. How much stress can that Dash rail endure?

So far it seems that a piece of stock needs to be there regardless, just to better distribute the load. The stock's thickness is predicated by both it's strength and the amount of space needed for clearance. It appears to me that if the original mount is deleted, the clearance requirement changes considerably.

Also, it may work out well to lap the stock and drill through the Dash rail, thereby eliminating the stress points and allowing a thinner stock.

I'm thinking aloud and awaiting the input of others.

[Tom Wesenberg]

My 29 Tudor tank bracket was soldered, the rubber removed, and the later bracket attached to the dash rail. This was done before I bought the car, and it hasn't leaked a drop. When I restore the car I will go back to the tank mount.

I wouldn't remove the tank mount, as it doesn't hurt a thing, and the next owner might want to go back to stock.

[Barry B./ Ma.]

The main thing in moving to the long bracket is to not let the column touch the old tank bracket as it will set up a vibration and start the leak again, that is why the spacing plate thickness can vary. If I remember correctly there is a good thickness of steel at the upper dash location so aluminum should be no problem in the spacer, I wouldn't use wood or plastic as they are compressible.

[Tony S,Fl.]

I'm Tony S ,Florida and the pictures you see were taken by me as well as the design and work I had Mike post them for me cause I couldn't. Turbo the aluminum is 3/8 " thick. The car would have to hit a tree before the aluminum would bend. Same as the original set up. I think the bolts would give way first. I did this set up to a friends car and he was happy. I do not recommend it to any one just show what I did. If you don't think it's safe ignore it and design your own set up. Tony

[Tomy Turbos]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

My 29 Tudor tank bracket was soldered, the rubber removed, and the later bracket attached to the dash rail. This was done before I bought the car, and it hasn't leaked a drop. When I restore the car I will go back to the tank mount.

I wouldn't remove the tank mount, as it doesn't hurt a thing, and the next owner might want to go back to stock.

I had read a post elsewhere before finding this group where a guy had done the conversion and deleted the original for cosmetic reasons. This is not the main reason for me asking though.

It has more to do with the quality of of my repair work, i.e. will it still leak, or not? Obviously, since I'm billing this to a customer, it needs to be the latter and done ONCE.

As I mentioned before, the evidence suggests that the problem was addressed previously. This has since been further corroborated after pulling the Gauge/Float Assy. It is completely locked by some sort of 'space-age polymer' which I suspect had been previously used in an effort to fix the problem, but was done with the Tank in-situ or at least without removing the Gauge. (Other circles have an acronym for this: DPO, meaning 'dumb previous owner...)

What I am saying is that I am not confident that simply coating the Tank and eliminating the initial cause will be sufficient to resolve the issue. If I delete the original bracket I can better examine and address the point of failure.

So, I'm still waiting to see if anyone else chimes in on this. Murphy has taught me that immediately following whatever decision I make, a better method will be revealed.

[Bob-A]

I'm pretty much doing the same thing on my '29 roadster. The best way to correct the problem is pull the tank. That's next after seeing if the "glue" will work and taking off all the load bearing of the original bracket. I will most definitely keep the original bracket under the tank.

Bob-A

[29Cabriolet]

I did the conversion on my 29 recently. I removed the tank entirely for a couple reasons. To remove the original bracket completely by grinding the rivets flush to the tank, and welding what remained to close the holes. Then I had the inside cleaned and coated by a local radiator shop. Repainted the tank, re-installed and replaced the bracket with the later style of course. For the Cabriolet, no adapter or spacer was needed. I just needed to drill a couple holes to line up with the new bracket.

[quickchange]

And for the right hand drive guys wishing to do this conversion we produce a RHD version of the late column mount , Have done a number of LHD to RHD this way too,

[Indiana A. Lover]

I would like to buy the new mount for 30. Please I need a place to buy one Thank you all Don In Indiana!