1914 Model T touring

[yachtsmanbill]

I took the liberty of rolling the pic. So Im glad to see you have the correct pan; a slight camera angle can make the world of difference. I hafta start out by telling you that I was raised on Model T's and still have difficulty on another forum with people that have all the answers, yet the questions aren't yet all in... Hmmm . Over here, its more T friendly and not so cliquish.

Drilling and stitching is a well accepted form of repair; but what remains to be seen is what caused it. Overheating? Freezing? How thin is the iron? and most of all, is that the original motor for the car. If the material is still there the stitch will work, but if its really thin there wont be much to work with. Most of the repair depends on YOU.
Semper Paradus pal! Pull the motor and repair it or a little dremel work and some JB weld?? Theres little strain and no pressure on the system and JB seems to work well. Me?? I used 2 raw eggs in my radiator and it held water for 3 years. The new owner replaced it just recently.
Personally, unless youre prepared for a full blown restoration, I'd patch it. Get the car roadworthy again, and drive it for a while to see if you even like the Ts. Once you pull the motor for some work it turns into "shoulda fixed this and shoulda fixed that" and before you know, all the fun is over.
I think you've got a fairly complete barn find that needs wheels looked at, new tires maybe, and look inside the differential for the dreaded babbit thrust washers. In the last decade, they've begun to fail which means NO BRAKES.
Listen to Steve Jelf and Royce as they are more familiar with the older cars. I am well versed on the "improved" models of 1926 and 27... still Ts but almost Model A's! Get her going and have some fun and mind what these guys tell you! T's are like an antique Briggs and Stratton lawn mower versus a new Yardman. Same thing but way different... Im off to recurve the distributor on my antique Buick... 1972 455/ 500 hp GSX... bill


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8fZ1JHLZAU

[jesselashcraft]

Originally Posted by yachtsmanbill

...but what remains to be seen is what caused it. Overheating? Freezing? How thin is the iron? and most of all, is that the original motor for the car...

The engine number is 346779. If I'm reading my reference book correctly, that would have been around August 1913. The date stamp on the block just above the putty knife blade is: 3 11 13

So if it's not the original motor, I think it's safe to say we're still in the ballpark which is good because the earlier engines had the thicker metal, right?

Once you pull the motor for some work it turns into "shoulda fixed this and shoulda fixed that"...

I hear ya. I'm not going to drop the motor and transmission without an overhaul. I really know nothing about this car and I wouldn't want to drive it any further away from home than I would mind to push it back.

I've heard the gouge on the thrust washers, Kevlar bands and Rocky Mountain brakes. It's these kind of improvements that would make me feel more comfortable about the car's roadworthiness. So this project might take a while. I try to think of it as a journey.

Thanks for the raw egg tip. I think I'll just leave that white cotton fiber stuffed into the radiator fins where it is. Got two of my four new tires mounted and they're both holding air! (My first experience brandishing a tire iron). Those flaps are an excellent investment for a novice like me.

[jesselashcraft]

Howdy -

When I spin the front wheel, there is a slight wobble to it. In other words, there is a 1/2 inch side-to-side difference per revolution. Is that telling me there's a roller bearing issue? As far as I can tell, nothing looks bent and the outside bearing looked OK but I haven't looked at the inside bearing yet.

Also, my owner's manual says the front wheels were slightly "dished." The spokes flared out a bit - concave looking at it from the outside - making the bottom spoke perpendicular to the street since the wheels were cambered outward at the top about 3" more distant from each other than at the bottom. Apparently, this had something to do with taking side stresses better in a turn with less rigid resistance. The back wheels had a flat configuration however.

My question is: how was that accomplished? In a couple of the catalogs, there doesn't seem to be a differentiation between front and back spokes so were all spokes made the same and their angle on the front wheel achieved by the shape of the hub or was there a time when the front spokes were shaved with the appropriate angle making them different from the back spokes?

Since the cars aren't being driven that much anymore (and when they are it's all on improved paved roads), is it possible that people have just transitioned to straight spokes all around over the years?

[jesselashcraft]

My reference book says that car numbers from 332501 to 539000 were produced from 1 Oct 13 to 31 Jul 14. If you take the difference of the two, you get 206449. Divide by 10 months to get 20,650 cars manufactured roughly every month.

My car's ship number is 409023. Would it be safe to assume it came off the line sometime in mid January 1914?

[Royce P]

The reference books are referring to the motor number. This is not the number on the firewall patent plate. Your engine block has a casting date. The car would typically be shipped within a week after the engine block was cast.

Originally Posted by jesselashcraft

My reference book says that car numbers from 332501 to 539000 were produced from 1 Oct 13 to 31 Jul 14. If you take the difference of the two, you get 206449. Divide by 10 months to get 20,650 cars manufactured roughly every month.

My car's ship number is 409023. Would it be safe to assume it came off the line sometime in mid January 1914?

[jesselashcraft]

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Originally Posted by Royce P

Your engine block has a casting date. The car would typically be shipped within a week after the engine block was cast.

In the back of "From Here To Obscurity," they list the car number and the engine number with inclusive dates. They caution that some minor discrepancies exist between all the lists out there but I'm starting to think the engine for this car was replaced with a 1913 motor at some point. The engine number cold stamped into the block just above the water inlet is: 346779 (according to my book, probably put together in the summer of 1913). The raised casting date just to the right of the inlet is 3 11 13.

Incidentally, there is a number on the right backside of the radiator in the
"Ford Motor Co. Detroit Mich." stamp: No. 0722640
Not sure if that's helpful.

[Royce P]

There are no spokes sold in the catalogs for 1914 model year. The spokes in the catalogs are the type used from 1919 - 1927 when the cars were equipped with demountable wood wheels. Those wheels are completely unlike the wheels that go on your car.

The front 30 X 3 wheels (24" rim diameter) that came on your 1914 originally are slightly "dished" in towards the center when viewed from the outside. The rear wheels on your 1914 are 30 X 3 1/2" tire size. The rear rim diameter is 23". The rear wheels are not dished.

The wheels on your car have to be made or repaired by wheelwrights. Several good ones provide this service. The shape of the spokes determines the "dish" on the front wheels. It is very complex yet archaic technology that is now yours to preserve for future generations.

Originally Posted by jesselashcraft

Howdy -

When I spin the front wheel, there is a slight wobble to it. In other words, there is a 1/2 inch side-to-side difference per revolution. Is that telling me there's a roller bearing issue? As far as I can tell, nothing looks bent and the outside bearing looked OK but I haven't looked at the inside bearing yet.

Also, my owner's manual says the front wheels were slightly "dished." The spokes flared out a bit - concave looking at it from the outside - making the bottom spoke perpendicular to the street since the wheels were cambered outward at the top about 3" more distant from each other than at the bottom. Apparently, this had something to do with taking side stresses better in a turn with less rigid resistance. The back wheels had a flat configuration however.

My question is: how was that accomplished? In a couple of the catalogs, there doesn't seem to be a differentiation between front and back spokes so were all spokes made the same and their angle on the front wheel achieved by the shape of the hub or was there a time when the front spokes were shaved with the appropriate angle making them different from the back spokes?

Since the cars aren't being driven that much anymore (and when they are it's all on improved paved roads), is it possible that people have just transitioned to straight spokes all around over the years?

[jesselashcraft]

Originally Posted by Royce P

The shape of the spokes determines the "dish" on the front wheels.

Hi Royce -

Since I made that post, I put a square on an extra hub that came with the car and concluded it must be the shape of the spoke that created the concave "dish." Appreciate the confirmation.

I've been in touch with the Noah Stutzman. As it turns out, their establishment is about an hour from where I grew up and will be spending Thanksgiving so I'm planning a side trip. My understanding is they're pretty good at it.