40/41 Pickup owners

[JonC]

As my 40 P/U nears completion I am finding I can not align the hood and grille or figure out how the latch is going to work. No matter what I do the hood seems to be off a quater of an inch to the center of the grill. I did use new drake inner fenders and the passenger side had to be trimmed to allow the fender to drop down. I may have to trim more to get that fender down a little more but it seems the front fenders need to shift to the passenger side about 1/4 inch. I have I believe a good fender brace between the fenders but I am at a loss of how to do this. And of course everything is painted, any help would be appreciated. Thanks

[svm99]

I had this issue so I loosened the hood hinges on the cowl of the cab. Soak with a good penetrant if you have not had them out yet. This made a huge difference with the final hood fit up.
Good Luck, Paul

[JonC]

Paul, the hood hinges are new reproductions. When I move them The gap goes way out on one side of the hood to cowl.

[deuce_roadster]

I have always had the best luck with 40 front ends when I install the hood first, then install the fenders /grille with enlarged mounting holes so you have some adjustment there. The fender washers cover any enlarged holes in the fenders. Don't know about the repo hinges. You might try a set of originals.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by deuce_roadster

I have always had the best luck with 40 front ends when I install the hood first, then install the fenders /grille with enlarged mounting holes so you have some adjustment there. The fender washers cover any enlarged holes in the fenders. Don't know about the repo hinges. You might try a set of originals.

Very true! Hood first, adjusted to cowl. Then the grill! Then, sneak the fenders UP to the hood. Very time-consuming......go slowly, and in small increments. Enlarging bolt holes helps immensely. DD

[JonC]

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Which holes do you enlarge, all fender holes even the ones on the bottom of the cowl? seems like I will have to take the fenders off to do that.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by JonC

Which holes do you enlarge, all fender holes even the ones on the bottom of the cowl? seems like I will have to take the fenders off to do that.

For the full details on what's involved to do it CORRECTLY on a car front end, below is the "famous" KUBE rendition of the play-by-play (holes and ALL). It's a lengthy read, but all-inclusive. DD

I start the front sheet metal alignment only when I am completely satisfied with the door alignment. If you're restoring a convertible, it's a MUST that the top be completely installed (in the up position) and functioning as well.
Running boards are not on the vehicle at this time. It is FAR easier to install them later and adjust the rear fenders to the boards.
It is in my opinion, imperative that the hood be installed and aligned to the cowl prior to any fender(s) / grille work is installed. Take your time at this step. It is important that you have good hinges and springs. There should be no wear at any of the pivot points. If there is, the adjustments will be (more) difficult at best and the alignment will not last.
Be careful that the gap is even from side to side both along the top (between the hood and top of the cowl) and each hood side. Be certain the same amount of gap exists between the hood and the cowl. The height of the hood should be even with the cowl. Remember that a persons eye will be drawn naturally to the side of the vehicle and especially to the straightness of the trim and body line. It is imperative that these lines are straight! Bottom line -- the hood MUST BE CORRECTLY aligned. Take your time and get it RIGHT! Before moving on tighten all attaching points. There should be no need readjust the hood later.

Prior to installing the fenders I elongate and enlarge the four clearance holes that will be used to bolt the fender to the lower cowl.* Also at this time I enlarge the four holes in the front of the fender that the grille will later bolt through.*
The grille should be a complete assembly PRIOR to installation. This is important as there is no allowance for adjustment within the grille assembly. Originally the stainless strips at each side of the grille (Deluxe only) were stapled to the sheet metal louvers. Doing this makes the installation a bit neater and positively easier. On concourse vehicles be certain to use round wire staples. Flat staples were not used in 1940.

Now it's time to install the inner fender panel to the respective fender. Prior to this installation enlarge the clearance hole at the bottom (near center) of the inner fender panel.* This hole will be used later to bolt the inner fender to the frame directly next to the brake hose bracket. Be certain to enlarge the correct hole. Of the two holes in this area one will contain a grommet while the other is intended as a clearance hole for the fastener. There is a caged nut on the inner frame to accept this bolt/washer assembly. Bolt the inner panel to the fender at the top using the special flat carriage bolts. Tighten all securely. On concourse vehicles a thin webbing material is required between the fender and inner panel.

Now's the fun part!
WITH HELP, install a fender / inner panel assembly. Loosely install the nut/bolt assembly through the 'Y' brace to the inner panel. Install (snug -- not tight) the four bolt / washer assemblies at the lower bottom of the fender to the caged nuts within the cowl. Now install the other fender.
Again, WITH HELP, using the eight nut / bolt / washer assemblies install the grille assembly between the two fenders. Again, snug -- not tight.
Now's the (not) fun part!
There is no easy way to do the remaining aligning. However, patience is an absolute must! Do not be surprised if this takes two, even three evenings. I tend to 'walk away' when I become frustrated.
Slowly and methodically push / pull / tug on the fenders and grille assembly until you are somewhat satisfied with the alignment. Keep a careful eye at the horizontal gap between the hood and the grille (top) as well as the vertical alignment of the hood to grille.
Tighten the bolts at the grille / fenders just a bit more at this time. Recheck all the gaps. If you remain satisfied move on to the four bolts at the lower fender edge / cowl. Tighten these a bit more too. Do the other fender.
Continue to recheck all the gaps after tightening each area.**
Tighten the bolt / nut assemblies at the 'Y' brace. Again, check all of the gaps to be certain nothing has moved.
If you remain satisfied with the entire alignment it's time to tighten all fasteners securely. If you are not satisfied you should be able to push / pull at the fenders as thus far the attachment points are only snug. Remember, "snug -- not tight"? This allows the sheet metal to be moved a bit into place and hold it there prior to firmly securing the fasteners.
If this tightening causes the fenders to pull in too much it is practical to install a thin washer between the fender panel(s) and brace. On reproduction panels I've found it necessary to enlarge this hole (inner panel) just a bit.
Lastly, install the lower radiator air deflector. It may be necessary to enlarge a hole or two in this pan. Not to worry -- all are covered by the proper fasteners.

* I enlarge the holes to 1/2" and elongate approximately 1/8" on either side of each hole. The elongation should follow the curve of the fender. Remember that all these holes will be completely covered by the correct body washers.
**If any gap should change after a specific area has been secured you know with certainty which area caused the effect. You may need to elongate a hole or two in that area a bit more. There should be NO binding at any attachment points.

Mike "Kube" Kubarth

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[deuce_roadster]

JonC, you will SAVE time by taking the fenders off and doing what Kube suggests in his EXCELLENT instructions above.

[JonC]

Thanks guys, I guess I am for some more fun with this project. Jon

[mrfliboy]

Not much help here but I feel your pain.

My 41 has been giving me the same fits as yours and many others or so I've read. I've done some pretty extensive searching and have found multiple other builders with the left side problems on the 40/41. Mine is closer to a 1/2-5/8 issue off center.

Now I do have a different frame then original (40 car) but have not had to drill a single hole anywhere. Kubes instructions are the by far the best order to do it.

Mine is in the patched state now so makes it faster but still tedious. I'm hoping to end with a 1/4" offset LOL.

Good Luck and let us know if you find the secret code. (Kubes is the way to go)

[swoopNZ]

Make sure you use 7/16" bolts on the 2 front holes of the hood hinge brackets that attach to the side of the cowl. - not 5/16".
These provide up and down adjustment.

[JonC]

Swoop, I am not sure what you mean, the hinges have studs that go into the cab and they are 5/16 and where the hinges bolt to the hood they use 1/4 shoulder bolts that are wired so they can't back out. maybe the p/u is different.

[JonC]

Mrfliboy, my hood was the easy to line up with the cowl, my biggest problem is the nose needs to go to the passenger side both fenders equally, The grille needs to tilt out at the bottom and down on one side, hell if I knew this was going to happen I would have picked a different year And for the life of me I can not figure how all the linkage for the hood release is made to work, I bought a NOS T brace that bolted perfectly and a repro Drake hood release hindge and bracket set and everything pivots but doesn't move anything.

[V8COOPMAN]

JonC.......is it possible that your cab may be sitting NOT SQUARELY on the frame with the firewall maybe rotated just a blond one to the right of center? Maybe just loosen the cab to frame bolts and wiggle stuff? DD

[JonC]

DD I did not think of that, thanks Jon

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by JonC

DD I did not think of that, thanks Jon

Don't forget to report back. I'm curious as to what you you might find. Since you also noted that the grill needs to "tilt out" at the bottom, it may be also possible that the cab is just a smidge too far forward. Remember, with the size of the bolt holes in frame and body, there's quite a bit of room to move that cab around with bolts in place, but loosened. DD

[JonC]

I will report back I should return to working on it tommorrow. I needed a break and the rain stopped so it was lawn mowing day. I did mount the body to the frame with springs between the underside of the frame and nuts so I should be able to take some measurements and see if that is a problem. I do appreciate the insight. I am going to start by enlarging some holes and checking with a tape measure, I'll let you know. Jon

[JonC]

Report?Conclusion: Putting a hood and grille on a 40/41 is alot of wook. I want to thank everyone that helped me with this project and for the copy of Kube's written procedure. I can only add take your time and if it isn't going together somethings wrong so step back and take a break. I t will take you a lot longer than you think. Right now I can't figure out how to attach a picture. sorry.

[V8COOPMAN]

Soooooooo........it's all glued together, successfully? DD

[JSeery]

Sent you a PM.