FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

[Heard]

Originally Posted by JRHASZARD

Senor Heard
Is the WILCAP adapter the: BH 59A-350 ; BHA FHFT- 350, or the BHA -292 FTS?
Thanks, John

John,
It is the 59a-350.

Heard

[Heard]

Ernie,
You are correct I believe that a stock 33/34 tube might have worked. It would be VERY close and I almost went this way, but I thought since I already had the '35 tt/shaft, I'd modify it. Dick could probably provide some input on this.

And you are correct, it sounds WAY more complicated than it really is. If I can do it, almost anyone on the Barn can do it. After all, I'm just a redneck with a welder. And I ain't very good with it either....

Also, you should know that your old T5 posts are what really started this whole thing so I'm puttin' part of the blame on you!

Heard

[JRHASZARD]

Thanks ! We should be in St.Augustine for Jan-Feb. I would like to drop by on the Harley to see your work if that is OK.
John

[gearhead1952]

Originally Posted by Heard

After all, I'm just a redneck with a welder. And I ain't very good with it either....

Great write up thank you. That torque tube weld is so pretty. Wish I could weld like that.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Heard

Ernie,
You are correct I believe that a stock 33/34 tube might have worked. It would be VERY close and I almost went this way, but I thought since I already had the '35 tt/shaft, I'd modify it. Dick could probably provide some input on this.

And you are correct, it sounds WAY more complicated than it really is. If I can do it, almost anyone on the Barn can do it. After all, I'm just a redneck with a welder. And I ain't very good with it either....Heard

Heard and Flat Ernie mentioned the possible use of a '34 torque tube and drive shaft. During the last couple of weeks while Heard and I were discussing measurements and methods for shortening the torque tube, Heard mentioned to me that he thought that a modified T-tube length should probably be about 61-7/8". Now while I'm not usually good for very much of anything, I have this uncanny thing about remembering certain numbers. I thought I remembered a '33-'34, V8 T-tube length being something like 61-13/16" (NOTE: 4-cylinder T-tubes and d-shafts are 1-1/2" shorter than V8). Sure enough, when I checked my notes, Heard's measurement indicated that in all likelyhood, a V8 torque tube from the aforementioned '33-'34 models should bolt-in "as-is"....un-modified! I suppose it's also possible that the driveshaft may have worked as well, but we didn't get that far, as we didn't have a '34 d-shaft to measure accurately.

I'm not surprised that Flat Ernie was already on to this nifty bit of old Ford trivia, 'cuz I was aware several years ago that Ernie had the desire to eventually adapt one of these Jeep-influenced T5s into his '40 coupe with a blown French flathead, along with it's T-tube and banjo rear end. Ernie's sweet coupe sure would be a "sleeper" in this guise.



Obviously, Ernie had already done quite a bit of engineering and homework on his own. As many of you will note, Flat Ernie has long been recognized on the FordBarn and the HAMB as the "Go-To" T5 guru. As Ernie and Heard noted, this project is certainly much easier to accomplish than it sounds like initially. I'm hoping that this thread has at least encouraged a few to consider this mod on their own cars. DD

[Flat Ernie]

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Great work. When I was doing all my tape measure engineering, I figured out that if my adapter between the rear-most face of the Jeep T5 and the front face where the rear clamshell bolts to was about 2-1/8" (going on memory only), I could use a stock 33/34 Torque-tube and driveshaft without having to shorten anything. Apart from the center section surgery required, it would be close to bolt-in.

The Jeep T5 shifter is about 7" more rearward than stock - again, I'm going on memory - I haven't fiddled with any of my early Ford stuff in a few years as everything has been on hold based on life events.

Good info, great conversion, and it sounds far more complicated than it is once you solve the challenge of the spline adapter & seal plate...it's really pretty simple.

I think I also figured out that using the Jeep 5th gear with the Astrovan cluster came up with an aggressive .59 OD ratio, which allowed a nice cruising RPM with an early Ford rear stock gear assembly.

[Kube]

I apologize to the guys that did all of this amazing work in that I am just now reading of it and just now bestowing my sincere praise of your efforts and results.

I don't normally look at posts that reflect modified vehicles. Regardless of the fact I am a purist, I so very much appreciate any venue wherein the "players" have shown keen insight, intellect and execution.

I have an engineering and tool making background so feel I can offer with confidence that these guys went to great efforts to make this happen at the level of quality depicted.

Congratulations to a job well done!

[donald1950]

That is really nice... you should sell the kit as it would do a great job.... were i just starting my 41 Pu conversion to T5 i would buy one, rather that do all i did to convert mine to open drive, in a New York Minute.....

[Flat Ernie]

When I was working on mine a long time ago, I actually acquired a 33/34 torque-tube and driveshaft. My understanding is that it would all bolt up to the later rear, but would need the oil drain hole drilled or aligned...

Unfortunately, a couple of military moves, then a bunch of life got in the way. My old '40 is in storage and hasn't run in a few years. I'm working on getting into a new place here in the new year and hopefully consolidating all my stuff in one spot. Maybe then I can work through my projects and get back to the '40...

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Flat Ernie

When I was working on mine a long time ago, I actually acquired a 33/34 torque-tube and driveshaft. My understanding is that it would all bolt up to the later rear, but would need the oil drain hole drilled or aligned...

Unfortunately, a couple of military moves, then a bunch of life got in the way. My old '40 is in storage and hasn't run in a few years. I'm working on getting into a new place here in the new year and hopefully consolidating all my stuff in one spot. Maybe then I can work through my projects and get back to the '40...

Hey Ernie...No doubt the driveshaft would be "close" in length, and could probably have been made to work in Heard's '35 with (at the most) having to make sure the hole for the pin at the rear splines lined-up with hole in pinion shaft. At the most, a new hole would have had to be carefully drilled at the correct spot. As I tried to explain in the thread, the dimension between the snap ring at front, and the hole for the pin at the rear is a critical and exacting measurement. The one difficulty I see with your '40 is that the pinion is six-spline, and the '33/'34 d-shaft is 10-spline, as was Heard's '35. DD

[Flat Ernie]

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

The one difficulty I see with your '40 is that the pinion is six-spline, and the '33/'34 d-shaft is 10-spline, as was Heard's '35. DD

Yep...could've been a problem/challenge, but they do make a 10-6 coupler and gearsets are available in either spline...sometimes the later ones had a 10-spline pinion...no telling after 70 years!

[fortyonerag]

Great thread. Thanks for sharing all the hard work!

[FlatheadTed]

Great job ,Well thought out .Ted

[JM 35 Sedan]

Good job DD and Heard. Wish we had a tech section here for filing these type of threads, but I plan to bookmark this one for future reference.

[sidevalve8ba]

Heard,
Keep us clued in on your clutch linkage too if you will. I'd be real interested in seeing that. Thanks.

[Heard]

Ted,
Will do. I'm also working on the parking brake stuff since that has to be sorted out.

Heard

[scooder]

DD, Heard,
Great stuff, I do have a question,
The overdrive gear swap,
your using the camaro bottom gear but a jeep top gear. You state the jeep one is smaller in diameter than the camaro one it replaced, yes? I'm trying to visualize how changing the diameter of one gear, of a pair of gears rotating around fixed axis, works? Going to a smaller gear on one axis surely can't have the correct depth of tooth engagement?
Am I missing something here? Surly making one smaller would necessitate making the other one bigger?
Could you clarify please?
Many thanks,
Martin.

[Heard]

Martin,
Dick will surely jump in here since he can explain it better than I can but there are 2 different 5th gear configs for the Jeep. A 25/51 tooth combo and a 23/53 combo. As I recall, the Camaro had a 25/51, so all I had to do was swap out the gear on the Jeep shaft.

Heard

[zzlegend]

Great thread you guys. And very informative. Excellent pictures. Thanks for posting this. Mark.

[scooder]

Heard,
So to clarify, you used a jeep 25 and a camaro 51. Now it makes sence.
Thanks,
Martin