Pulley broken

[Werner]

Hallo und guten Tag.
I'm currently rebuilding my broked engine block internals onto a crack-free block, which Dave from the NE got for me.
During the process, I carelessly broke off a little piece from the pulley flange while maneuvering.
Are the rumors true that the two-piece version doesn't always run perfectly true?
Thanks in advance!

[Synchro909]

Werner, My advice is to dump the original style pulley (unless originality is important to you) and use one of the harmonic balancers made in New Zealand. The improvement to the smoothness of the engine is impressive and it will increase the life of the bearings. They are well made and the ewer version is a two piece item. They are made to suit either the original style of front seal or a modern style one.
I'm sure someone will be able to provide a contact for the maker. I can't lay my hand on mine at the moment.

[rotorwrench]

For a time, die cast zinc pulleys were made. They were an example of what to avoid. Snyder's has a cast steel two piece that works well. They allow removal of the pulley without removing the radiator. This feature makes them worthwhile.

[JayJay]

Originally Posted by Werner

Hallo und guten Tag.
I'm currently rebuilding my broked engine block internals onto a crack-free block, which Dave from the NE got for me.
During the process, I carelessly broke off a little piece from the pulley flange while maneuvering.
Are the rumors true that the two-piece version doesn't always run perfectly true?
Thanks in advance!

Werner - I cannot speak to current production two-piece pulleys, but the two piece pulley I took off of my '30 pickup (now gone) was quite wobbly and did not mesh well between the two pieces. It was cast iron, I suspect from the 80's or 90's. There should be no reason to remove the front pulley after the engine is installed (although I did install the replacement one-piece with the engine in the car), so why not use a one-piece pulley and be confident in it?

I'm sure others have contrary opinions, but that's my $0.02 worth.

We (the FordBarn) had a discussion about a year ago re: the harmonic balancers. Here's what Synchro909 turned up then:

"I’m reviving this thread because I am in New Zealand and have been speaking with Chris Horn. He is selling to the public at $NZ 450 (about $US 260 plus shipping). I have had one on another car since 2014 and wouldn’t rebuild an engine now and not use one. His phone number is (NZ country code is 64) 021 198 6639. They come with either a reverse scroll for rope seals or a smooth OD for the neoprene seals."

[Y-Blockhead]

The latest contact info I have for Chris Horn is

Chris Horn
15 Vulcan Place
8024 Christchurch Canterbury New Zealand
[email protected].

Comparison of Horn Balancer to stock:

[Y-Blockhead]

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FYI, You can not use the stock type "Ratchet Nut" with the Horn Balancer.

[CarlG]

Something must have changed because I am using the stock "ratchet nut" with the Horn balancer I purchased several years ago.

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by CarlG

Something must have changed because I am using the stock "ratchet nut" with the Horn balancer I purchased several years ago.

Carl, I think you are correct. I don't have a Ratchet Nut handy to try. Now that I think about it, I didn't think it would fit because my "Bent Wrench" wouldn't fit in the Balancer so I didn't use it.... Been a long time since I installed it.

Only thing that has changed is the one piece is no longer offered, all are two piece.

[Synchro909]

When I installed my latest harmonic balancer, I used the original nut. The tool I made for it didn't reach into the balancer far enough to work so I bought a socket (I think 1 3/8"). I haven't used my home made one again since.

[Y-Blockhead]

My new bolt takes at 15/16" socket.

[katy]

Originally Posted by Werner

I carelessly broke off a little piece from the pulley flange while maneuvering.

Just file the edges smooth.

[Richard Knight]

For those that have installed a Chris horn balancer what is the "fit" of the two piece parts. All the harmonic balancers I have installed on modern engines are a press fit on the crankshaft to make it as one. Is the horn balancer relying on the key, fit on the shaft, or just the torque of the bolt.? What is the recommended torque. I am thinking of installing one on my Burtz. Thanks.

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by Richard Knight

For those that have installed a Chris horn balancer what is the "fit" of the two piece parts. All the harmonic balancers I have installed on modern engines are a press fit on the crankshaft to make it as one. Is the horn balancer relying on the key, fit on the shaft, or just the torque of the bolt.? What is the recommended torque. I am thinking of installing one on my Burtz. Thanks.

I have not install my two piece Horn Balancer yet. I believe I torqued my one piece to 80 ft/lbs. It is not a press fit.

[Werner]

Guten Tag.


The broken-off piece is just under an inch long. Even though I sanded and polished the edges, the V-belt is still a bit frayed along the side.

I wrote to the address in New Zealand mentioned above, but haven't received a reply.


I can't imagine that the harmonic pulley mentioned will make much of a difference. The huge, inert mass of the large flywheel should dampen all vibrations, I think?

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by Richard Knight

For those that have installed a Chris horn balancer what is the "fit" of the two piece parts. All the harmonic balancers I have installed on modern engines are a press fit on the crankshaft to make it as one. Is the horn balancer relying on the key, fit on the shaft, or just the torque of the bolt.? What is the recommended torque. I am thinking of installing one on my Burtz. Thanks.

I don't think a harmonic balancer would do much for you on a Burtz engine. The balancer takes a lot of the "whip" out of the crank shaft, thus smoothing things out and protecting your main bearings, especially the middle one. The Burtz engine has a crank shaft that is waaaayyy more rigid than the original so there is little to no benefit.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by Werner

Guten Tag.


The broken-off piece is just under an inch long. Even though I sanded and polished the edges, the V-belt is still a bit frayed along the side.

I wrote to the address in New Zealand mentioned above, but haven't received a reply.


I can't imagine that the harmonic pulley mentioned will make much of a difference. The huge, inert mass of the large flywheel should dampen all vibrations, I think?

The heavy flywheel on a Model A engine does iron out most of the vibrations at the back of the engine. It does nothing for the vibrations and forces within the engine. The heavy flywheel, having a lot of inertia takes a lot to speed up. When a cylinder fires, especially one of the front ones, the flywheel acts as a big brake on the back of the crank shaft. The torque produced by the firing cylinder causes the crank shaft to twist and buckle. That puts a huge pressure on the middle main bearing, thus shortening its life.
The harmonic balancer treats those vibrations in a different way from a crude, heavy fly wheel. It is designed to absorb the vibration rather than allow it to "wind up" the crank shaft.
I hope I have explained that clearly enough.

[Richard Knight]

Synchro, if as a terry days the Burtz is a modern engine on the inside and I agree it is then a torsional vibration dampener might have some value. One thing I do know modern engines from at least the 50s all have have torsional vibration dampeners and if the dampener is removed or fails the is a high likely hood of the crank failing.. as mentioned the weight of the stock flywheel, plus pressure plate and disc is a massive weight hung on the back of the crank that does dampen the combustion strokes but does nothing to dampen torsional vibration. Many Burtz engines are being built with Terry's 32 lb. Flywheel so tight away you do not have that massive engine combustion shock absorber. So it seems to me any thing you can do to absorb the combustion impulses and torsional vibration may be a good thing. Terry's crankshaft is very robust, heavily counterweighted, well supported but is still not immune to rotational vibration..

[Werner]

Convinced, thanks! How much does that part weigh, please?


But I don't know where to get it. Now would be the perfect time. The oil pan and timing cover are still off.

[The Master Cylinder]

Originally Posted by Werner

Convinced, thanks! How much does that part weigh, please?


But I don't know where to get it. Now would be the perfect time. The oil pan and timing cover are still off.

Hi Werner. The Harmonic Balancer weighs a little over 5.5 lbs. I think you can only get them from Chris Horn @ [email protected].

I installed mine with the engine in the car, pan and timing cover on. I did have to jack the engine up quite far to clear the front crossmember, but that was with a one piece balancer. It should be easier with the two piece.

FYI, someone mentioned all engines from the '50's up had vibration dampeners. Not all, Corvair engines did not have one. Horizontally opposed six cylinders are said to be in "perfect balance". Maybe the same with VW's 4's?

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by Werner

Convinced, thanks! How much does that part weigh, please?


But I don't know where to get it. Now would be the perfect time. The oil pan and timing cover are still off.

The contact details you need are at the bottom of post #4.