The Ford Barn

Gyrodoc · 01-14-2016, 05:30 PM

Need some help guys. Bottom radiator hose split, engine got real hot very fast. The head gasket blew between #3 and 4 cylinder. I bought a new gasket cleaned everything up as much as possible installed gasket and head torqued to 55lbs. I decided to do a leak down test before adding water and oil.
Head was leaking between all cylinders. I removed head since there wasn't anybody nearby that could resurface the head I glued some emery paper on to a large ground surface plate. Every once in a while I would turn the head over and noticed I was making pretty good progress. I turned it over and saw a crack between cylinder #2 and 3 from water port to head blot to other water port.

By the way this is a model B engine. I ordered a 5.5:1 head from Snyder's and the gasket they recommend for the B Block. Plugged the steam holes as recommended. Installed the gasket and head torqued to 55lbs. Did a leak down test. Still leaks between all cylinders.

My question looks like the block isn't level? If I remove the valves does anyone know how to resurface the block with engine in car, or should I just remove the engine disassemble and do everything that needs to be done.

By the way this engine has been running great and was overhauled about 10,000 miles age about 3 years.
Richard

AL in NY · 01-14-2016, 06:55 PM

Did you wet the rings with oil before doing the leakdown test. That way you know for sure if it's the head gasket/valves and not the rings. Dry rings will effect the leakdown test.

bbrocksr · 01-14-2016, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gyrodoc

Need some help guys. Bottom radiator hose split, engine got real hot very fast. The head gasket blew between #3 and 4 cylinder. I bought a new gasket cleaned everything up as much as possible installed gasket and head torqued to 55lbs. I decided to do a leak down test before adding water and oil.
Head was leaking between all cylinders. I removed head since there wasn't anybody nearby that could resurface the head I glued some emery paper on to a large ground surface plate. Every once in a while I would turn the head over and noticed I was making pretty good progress. I turned it over and saw a crack between cylinder #2 and 3 from water port to head blot to other water port.

By the way this is a model B engine. I ordered a 5.5:1 head from Snyder's and the gasket they recommend for the B Block. Plugged the steam holes as recommended. Installed the gasket and head torqued to 55lbs. Did a leak down test. Still leaks between all cylinders.

My question looks like the block isn't level? If I remove the valves does anyone know how to resurface the block with engine in car, or should I just remove the engine disassemble and do everything that needs to be done.

By the way this engine has been running great and was overhauled about 10,000 miles age about 3 years.
Richard

On your leakdown test where is the air escaping?
Bill

Gyrodoc · 01-14-2016, 07:42 PM

Al, yes the rings were wet.

Bill, with each cylinder at top dead center I could hear air leaking out of the adjacent spark plug hole. Head gasket just not sealing between cylinders.
Richard

Mark in MT · 01-14-2016, 07:57 PM

Firstly, clean the top of the block carefully. Have the block straightness checked with a precision straight edge and a feeler gage. This will show how much and where the warp is. Check several places across the width of the block and also diagonally both ways. If it is out, it will have to come out of the car and be stripped down to be surfaced. The A and B engine are hard to hold head gaskets as there are only 14 studs spaced wide apart. When Henry went to the v8, same basic layout had 21 studs per head with smaller cylinders. To hold well both head and block must be FLAT!

Mitch//pa · 01-14-2016, 08:01 PM

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If it was a ring issue the leak down air would come out of the crankcase... If your valves are not sealing it can go into another cylinder via the manifolds then through an open valve..

Gyrodoc · 01-14-2016, 08:05 PM

Thanks Mark Haven't checked with straight edge and feeler gage. Good idea

Gyrodoc · 01-14-2016, 08:22 PM

Mitch,
The engine was running great before it overheated. I'm probably prolonging the inevitable. If it's a valve problem it would have to be a valve problem in every cylinder.
Thanks Mitch
Richard

James Rogers · 01-14-2016, 08:43 PM

not much way to resurface the block without stripping it. At the very least you will get drugs and grit into the cylinders that you won't be able to remove that will damage the bores and rings. Best to do a compression test before doing a leakdown. If you don't have the pistons at the compression stroke the pressure will leak into adjacent cylinders through the manifolds. I'm not saying you are doing it wrong, just suggesting you check yourself. The compression test can isolate rings or valves or gasket leaks.

Mitch//pa · 01-14-2016, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gyrodoc

Mitch,
The engine was running great before it overheated. I'm probably prolonging the inevitable. If it's a valve problem it would have to be a valve problem in every cylinder.
Thanks Mitch
Richard

I posted that scenario cause I don't want you to mis diagnose your issue.

Gyrodoc · 01-14-2016, 08:54 PM

James,
Good advice I'll do it again making sure I'm on Compression on each cylinder. I'll do a compression test also.
Richard

Gyrodoc · 01-14-2016, 08:55 PM

BY the way guys, I dumped the White Walls. I like it better.

01-14-2016, 05:30 PM	#1
Gyrodoc Senior Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Ontario California Posts: 104	Block needs surfacing Need some help guys. Bottom radiator hose split, engine got real hot very fast. The head gasket blew between #3 and 4 cylinder. I bought a new gasket cleaned everything up as much as possible installed gasket and head torqued to 55lbs. I decided to do a leak down test before adding water and oil. Head was leaking between all cylinders. I removed head since there wasn't anybody nearby that could resurface the head I glued some emery paper on to a large ground surface plate. Every once in a while I would turn the head over and noticed I was making pretty good progress. I turned it over and saw a crack between cylinder #2 and 3 from water port to head blot to other water port. By the way this is a model B engine. I ordered a 5.5:1 head from Snyder's and the gasket they recommend for the B Block. Plugged the steam holes as recommended. Installed the gasket and head torqued to 55lbs. Did a leak down test. Still leaks between all cylinders. My question looks like the block isn't level? If I remove the valves does anyone know how to resurface the block with engine in car, or should I just remove the engine disassemble and do everything that needs to be done. By the way this engine has been running great and was overhauled about 10,000 miles age about 3 years. Richard

01-14-2016, 07:42 PM	#4
Gyrodoc Senior Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Ontario California Posts: 104	Re: Block needs surfacing Al, yes the rings were wet. Bill, with each cylinder at top dead center I could hear air leaking out of the adjacent spark plug hole. Head gasket just not sealing between cylinders. Richard

01-14-2016, 07:57 PM	#5
Mark in MT Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Western MT Posts: 218	Re: Block needs surfacing Firstly, clean the top of the block carefully. Have the block straightness checked with a precision straight edge and a feeler gage. This will show how much and where the warp is. Check several places across the width of the block and also diagonally both ways. If it is out, it will have to come out of the car and be stripped down to be surfaced. The A and B engine are hard to hold head gaskets as there are only 14 studs spaced wide apart. When Henry went to the v8, same basic layout had 21 studs per head with smaller cylinders. To hold well both head and block must be FLAT! __________________ Mark in MT Always looking for another opportunity to be wrong.

01-14-2016, 08:01 PM	#6
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: Block needs surfacing Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) If it was a ring issue the leak down air would come out of the crankcase... If your valves are not sealing it can go into another cylinder via the manifolds then through an open valve.. Last edited by Mitch//pa; 01-14-2016 at 08:46 PM.

01-14-2016, 08:05 PM	#7
Gyrodoc Senior Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Ontario California Posts: 104	Re: Block needs surfacing Thanks Mark Haven't checked with straight edge and feeler gage. Good idea

01-14-2016, 06:55 PM	#2
AL in NY Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern Upstate New York Posts: 1,209	Re: Block needs surfacing Did you wet the rings with oil before doing the leakdown test. That way you know for sure if it's the head gasket/valves and not the rings. Dry rings will effect the leakdown test. __________________ AL in NY

01-14-2016, 08:22 PM	#8
Gyrodoc Senior Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Ontario California Posts: 104	Re: Block needs surfacing Mitch, The engine was running great before it overheated. I'm probably prolonging the inevitable. If it's a valve problem it would have to be a valve problem in every cylinder. Thanks Mitch Richard

01-14-2016, 08:43 PM	#9
James Rogers Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Asheville,NC Posts: 3,104	Re: Block needs surfacing not much way to resurface the block without stripping it. At the very least you will get drugs and grit into the cylinders that you won't be able to remove that will damage the bores and rings. Best to do a compression test before doing a leakdown. If you don't have the pistons at the compression stroke the pressure will leak into adjacent cylinders through the manifolds. I'm not saying you are doing it wrong, just suggesting you check yourself. The compression test can isolate rings or valves or gasket leaks. __________________ http://www.model-a-ford-4bangers.com/

01-14-2016, 08:54 PM	#11
Gyrodoc Senior Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Ontario California Posts: 104	Re: Block needs surfacing James, Good advice I'll do it again making sure I'm on Compression on each cylinder. I'll do a compression test also. Richard

01-14-2016, 08:55 PM	#12
Gyrodoc Senior Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Ontario California Posts: 104	Re: Block needs surfacing BY the way guys, I dumped the White Walls. I like it better.