Burtz Block Price??

[TomInCologne]

Originally Posted by ModelA29

He was one of the first to add 3d printing to his shop for those unobtanium parts.

The speed of 3D printed houses could be the route to get the CA fire areas fixed. They should also be easier to get insurance on.

in case one has missed this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1KQPTJ6aDk


For sure nothing you would get done for a normal vintage car but for very, very special cars this technology is god-given...

[rackops]

Well, this thread inspired me to buy a Burtz engine. I love driving my 1931 Victoria and while it has a perfectly good "diamond B" block, being able to "future proof" my car with a Burtz engine has been something I've wanted to do for a long time.

I plan to keep my car as close to Judging Standards as possible, so this Burtz will serve as the foundation for all "correct" additional parts. I also bought an Aeries muffler yesterday. I figured as long as things are going to be torn apart for the engine swap, might as well change that out too.

I don't know what the tariffs will do, or if they will have any effect, but I needed a push to finally buy one and this was enough of a push for me.

[ronn]

very cool rack!


crystal blue persuasion. lol

[Raaf]

Originally Posted by rackops

Well, this thread inspired me to buy a Burtz engine. I love driving my 1931 Victoria and while it has a perfectly good "diamond B" block, being able to "future proof" my car with a Burtz engine has been something I've wanted to do for a long time.

Right on!

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by rackops

I don't know what the tariffs will do, or if they will have any effect, but I needed a push to finally buy one and this was enough of a push for me.

New tariffs driving increased demand for *checks notes* Chinese products. Well done everybody.

[ModelA29]

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Originally Posted by TomInCologne

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1KQPTJ6aDk

For sure nothing you would get done for a normal vintage car but for very, very special cars this technology is god-given...

I disagree the scanning and high tech reusable plug can be used to create 1,000s of accurate repo parts. While it's expensive to make 1 it gets cheap spreading those costs over 100s of parts.

[duke36]

Follow up to post 46 and others, It would be interesting to know what Mr. Burtz' research entailed for foundries in lowest environmental reg. states, how much volume needed to compete with foreign countries, how many orders needed in advance to get volume discounts, etc. The Stipes machine company found a way to make shocks, though a different example.Would US buyers be willing to pay a 10% or more premium for a US made $4000 block ?

[LeonardS]

John Deere still has a foundry in Waterloo, Iowa and Blackhawk Engineering in Cedar Falls, Iowa does the machine work on many Deere and Caterpillar castings. Deere may even have some capacity available due to the current ag economy, but I don’t know if they would do outside work.

[Jeff/Illinois]

Originally Posted by duke36

..............Would US buyers be willing to pay a 10% or more premium for a US made $4000 block ?

Yeah I would. Today as I change my Made in China rotary shaving heads two months old and dull as hell, when they used to be QUALITY made in the Netherlands, Norelco, and it was nothing to go a full year on them. For almost the same money. Or my six month old storm door handle from Menards that fell apart last week with springs and stuff falling out of it again, Made in China. Or as reported on the news this morning the $62 million of junk repo counterfeit garbage car parts that flooded the US in the last two years, causing at least 2 deaths and others multiple injuries, parts coming from off shore disguised as Genuine Toyota, Ford, GM etc. duplicate packaging and factory part numbers....

So yeah, I would.

[JayJay]

Ya know, as we sit here Monday-morning quarterbacking the decision to have the blocks cast and machined in China, it occurred to me: if Terry had not made that decision, we likely would not have Burtz blocks at all, and we would not be having this conversation. After all, if you don't like where the blocks are made, nobody is forcing you to buy one.

[arnhemmer]

Originally Posted by JayJay

Ya know, as we sit here Monday-morning quarterbacking the decision to have the blocks cast and machined in China, it occurred to me: if Terry had not made that decision, we likely would not have Burtz blocks at all, and we would not be having this conversation. After all, if you don't like where the blocks are made, nobody is forcing you to buy one.

Totally agree.

[Terry Burtz, Calif]

Wow, 51 comments and 2976 views.

Thanks to those who understand why the new engine parts are made in China.

The new cylinder block is a thin wall casting and it takes a lot of expertise and coordination between the core box and pattern makers, core and mold makers, those that pour iron, and the machine shop to get a good cylinder block. All of the preceding need to be part of the same company to avoid the foundry workers blaming the pattern makers and the machine shop claiming they received a bad casting.

We have a few foundries in the USA that can pour thin-wall castings, but I don't know if any have 5-axis CNC machining centers that can machine a cylinder block.

The new cylinder block is made in a factory with the capability of manufacturing 10,000 cylinder blocks per month and there is a possibility that the cylinder block in your new car was also made by this factory.

Other new engine parts like the crankshaft and connecting rods are made in factories that specialize in the parts they make.

There are lots of pictures of the new engine on the internet.

I encourage those who think the new engine can be produced in the USA to show the pictures or take original Model A parts to a foundry and machine shop to get a ballpark cost for having them make new engine parts.

Please post your ballpark cost findings on this forum.

[ronn]

well it will obviously cost triple................

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by JayJay

Ya know, as we sit here Monday-morning quarterbacking the decision to have the blocks cast and machined in China, it occurred to me: if Terry had not made that decision, we likely would not have Burtz blocks at all, and we would not be having this conversation. After all, if you don't like where the blocks are made, nobody is forcing you to buy one.

My intentions of my original post was not to question where the Burtz Blocks are made or why Terry made them there. I was just wondering how much they would go up with the new tariffs.

I just wanted to know if I should buy one now, which I certainly can't afford right now or buy in the future, when I can afford one but may not be able to because the price has gone up too much.

[JayJay]

Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead

My intentions of my original post was not to question where the Burtz Blocks are made or why Terry made them there. I was just wondering how much they would go up with the new tariffs.

I just wanted to know if I should buy one now, which I certainly can't afford right now or buy in the future, when I can afford one but may not be able to because the price has gone up too much.

Y-B: I think that’s a valid question, and one which really hasn’t been addressed in this thread. However, as many threads do, this one got off track and morphed into a discussion of offshore vs. onshore manufacturing. I think Terry’s response was appropriate to address that issue.

Remember that just as easily as tariffs can be imposed by Executive Order, they can be rescinded by Executive Order.

You might consider purchasing a block kit (the biggest single unit) now and adding accessories later when you are ready. I’ve been sitting on mine for about 2-1/2 years.

[johnneilson]

Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead

My intentions of my original post was not to question where the Burtz Blocks are made or why Terry made them there. I was just wondering how much they would go up with the new tariffs.

I just wanted to know if I should buy one now, which I certainly can't afford right now or buy in the future, when I can afford one but may not be able to because the price has gone up too much.

Or maybe ask Terry or John how many are stateside, not affected by the tariff scare.

I will chime in just a little about costs here stateside.

A few years ago we investigated having the Donovan "D" motor reproduced.

The minimum run of blocks, just the castings was approx $2500 each, 25-30 pcs. This did not include any machining or liners installed, just a lump of aluminum.
The billet crankshaft and rods, ~$4500 per motor.

This is way overkill for a street motor, but needed to keep ~300 hp together.
Ask Steve Serr what his 8 port cyl head will cost and that doesn't include carbs or injectors.

You cannot go wrong buying the Burtz today as opposed to the next batch.

John

[ronn]

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The quote "Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future" is attributed to Niels Bohr, a Nobel Prize-winning physicist, essentially saying that it's hard to predict what will happen in the future.

[Terry Burtz, Calif]

Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead

My intentions of my original post was not to question where the Burtz Blocks are made or why Terry made them there. I was just wondering how much they would go up with the new tariffs.

I just wanted to know if I should buy one now, which I certainly can't afford right now or buy in the future, when I can afford one but may not be able to because the price has gone up too much.

Y-Blockhead
Tariffs are a negotiating tool to stop the influx of illegal aliens and drugs into the USA.

The tariffs on Mexican and Canadian products are paused because Mexico and Canada are increasing their border security.

The 10% tariff on products from China does not apply to the retail price, and there will be no tariff if China increases border security.

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by Terry Burtz, Calif

Y-Blockhead
Tariffs are a negotiating tool to stop the influx of illegal aliens and drugs into the USA.

The tariffs on Mexican and Canadian products are paused because Mexico and Canada are increasing their border security.

The 10% tariff on products from China does not apply to the retail price, and there by no tariff if China increases border security.

Thanks Terry for informative answer on tariffs. I, for one, didn't know how that works. Hence my original question.

[Gene F]

Originally Posted by nkaminar

Would it be possible to 3D print an engine block? One that is usable that is.

I'd think it would be more feasible to 3-D the mold in some type of disposable plastic, and pour the metal.

I wonder how Terry handled the lawyers at Ford Motor Company.

The thing with one stop manufacturing is that is if anything goes wrong you avoid the endless finger-pointing. I have experienced this in business, and it is never fun.