The Ford Barn

fiddlybits · 01-12-2014, 10:24 AM

I have been helping a friend with his Model A and yesterday we were fixing the flat tires.
We were pleased to find that the wheels are clean of rust, both surface and inside the rim and that they run true. We decided to clean them and paint them shiny black and they are all set for the tires to go back on.

The question we have is: There are no "rubber bands" on any of the rims. Since the rims are clean and smooth are these needed?

Thanks
Scot

Steve Plucker · 01-12-2014, 10:40 AM

Pros and cons...but I have always put them on just as a safegaurd.

Pluck

Mitch//pa · 01-12-2014, 10:53 AM

i always use them and for 2.50 each why not. i bought the good quality brattons metal stem tubes for 34.00 each the bands add piece of mind.

rons49 · 01-12-2014, 10:50 AM

Me too. I bought "flaps" from Coker when I purchased my Firestones a few years ago. I did powder coat the wheels, however. I feel that Pcoating is more durable and is more resistant to chips when installing the tire/tub with the spoons.

fiddlybits · 01-12-2014, 10:54 AM

ok, great.

I am curious what the pros and cons are.

I "assume" that the purpose is to protect the tubes from the spokes....but beings that that wheel is a welded spoke design, and the spokes do not protrude inside of the wheel, we were very surprised to find them in two of the five tires, as they would seem un-needed and it seems that they would just be one more item to affect the balance.

We're going to mount all without for now but put it on our revisit list.

Hicktick · 01-12-2014, 04:30 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Ford used them for a reason , flats are no fun to me .

One grain of sand can work its way into the tube and you are flat .

Tubes will rub inside , all it takes is low air pressure from sitting .

Mike V. Florida · 01-12-2014, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fiddlybits

I have been helping a friend with his Model A and yesterday we were fixing the flat tires.
We were pleased to find that the wheels are clean of rust, both surface and inside the rim and that they run true. We decided to clean them and paint them shiny black and they are all set for the tires to go back on.

The question we have is: There are no "rubber bands" on any of the rims. Since the rims are clean and smooth are these needed?

Thanks
Scot

No the are not needed but, I have not yet met someone that did not have something like a liner, flap, or duct tape.

1931 flamingo · 01-12-2014, 07:02 PM

Cheap insurance for what they cost. FWIW
Paul in CT

fiddlybits · 01-13-2014, 12:10 AM

Guys, I getting confused here.

What I am reading is they are not needed but....

"They are cheap insurance...."
"They give peace of mind....."
"They are a safeguard... "

......but against what?

My question now is: Did Ford ever install these or were they added later when a rim had a problem?

Some thoughts:

On my old motorcycles I had spoked wheels and the purpose of the rubber band was to protect the inner-tube from the ends of the spokes. But the Model A wheels use a welded spoke that does not go through the rim.

If it is to keep the tube from contacting metal then the rubber band is too narrow as it only covers the valley bottom. The tube would still contact the metal from the bead to the valley walls.

The rim is not a split rim so there is no need for protection from the split.

I could see installing them if I had rust or rough surface problem on the inside of the rims but a new wheel would not have this. (and we don't)

An old story:
My wife was preparing a ham one time and I watched as she cut the end off the ham and put it in the pan. I asked her why she cut off about 1/5 of the ham and she said that it was the way her mother taught her to bake a ham. Curious, I call my Mother In Law and asked her why she had taught my wife to prepare the ham that way. She said that it was the way HER mother had taught her. When asked about this her mother said "the whole ham would not fit in the tiny pan she had".
So, for 2 generations a procedure had been performed for no reason at all other than "that's the way I was taught". It was never questioned.

Are rim liners (rubber bands) being put in because "we always have"?

Respectfully, what is the purpose of the rim liner in our Model A wheels?

Scot

Mike V. Florida · 01-13-2014, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fiddlybits

Guys, I getting confused here.

What I am reading is they are not needed but....

"They are cheap insurance...."
"They give peace of mind....."
"They are a safeguard... "

......but against what?

Rough insides of the wheels

My question now is: Did Ford ever install these or were they added later when a rim had a problem?

See Tom's post above

Some thoughts:

On my old motorcycles I had spoked wheels and the purpose of the rubber band was to protect the inner-tube from the ends of the spokes. But the Model A wheels use a welded spoke that does not go through the rim.

But in some cases roughens up the surface, See Toms post.

If it is to keep the tube from contacting metal then the rubber band is too narrow as it only covers the valley bottom. The tube would still contact the metal from the bead to the valley walls.

There are liners and there are flaps, flaps are wider. Depends on how bad the metal is

The rim is not a split rim so there is no need for protection from the split.

I could see installing them if I had rust or rough surface problem on the inside of the rims but a new wheel would not have this. (and we don't)

Then don't install them, no post here has said you HAVE to.

An old story:
My wife was preparing a ham one time and I watched as she cut the end off the ham and put it in the pan. I asked her why she cut off about 1/5 of the ham and she said that it was the way her mother taught her to bake a ham. Curious, I call my Mother In Law and asked her why she had taught my wife to prepare the ham that way. She said that it was the way HER mother had taught her. When asked about this her mother said "the whole ham would not fit in the tiny pan she had".
So, for 2 generations a procedure had been performed for no reason at all other than "that's the way I was taught". It was never questioned.

Are rim liners (rubber bands) being put in because "we always have"?

NO, most are not as lucky as you to have wheels in such great shape. Restorers put them in due to not wanting to take a chance on missing something on the wheel and they are cheap insurance. You can use duct tape if you want.

Respectfully, what is the purpose of the rim liner in our Model A wheels?

Re-read the thread to see several reasons.

Scot

You asked a question and were given answers, put them in don't put them it the decision is yours. My wheels were rough in the deepest part of the wheel. It was easier to put in a liner then to restore the metal to smooth.

Tom Wesenberg · 01-13-2014, 12:39 AM

"Respectfully, what is the purpose of the rim liner in our Model A wheels?"

They protect you from the fear of what could happen if you didn't have them.

Actually the original wheels had thick paper liners, and I have an original liner still on one of my wheels. Sometimes the electrically welded spokes left a little spike of sharp steel that could poke a hole in the tube. If your rims have no rough spots from rust and no weld spikes, then you probably have no need for the liners.

fiddlybits · 01-13-2014, 02:21 AM

I am sorry, I don't know what just happened.

I am new at this and obviously I have done something that was offending but I don't know what I did.

I was just trying to find out if these were a needed item and why they were or why they are being install if they are not.

I guess I'll just google it from now on.

Thanks for your time.

Scot

Mike V. Florida · 01-13-2014, 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fiddlybits

I am sorry, I don't know what just happened.

I am new at this and obviously I have done something that was offending but I don't know what I did.

I was just trying to find out if these were a needed item and why they were or why they are being install if they are not.

I guess I'll just google it from now on.

Thanks for your time.

Scot

The problem was, you received your answer but kept asking the question. You did it again here. You asked if they were a needed item and got the answer, depends on the condition of the wheel.

You asked why were they being installed if not needed and you got the answer, insurance in case something was missed.

I sorry if you did not like the answer you read.

You are of course welcome to ask more questions if you like, but you were beating a dead horse on this one.

You really want to be confused, ask what oil is best for A model A.

fiddlybits · 01-13-2014, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

The problem was, you received your answer but kept asking the question. You did it again here. You asked if they were a needed item and got the answer, depends on the condition of the wheel.

You asked why were they being installed if not needed and you got the answer, insurance in case something was missed.

I sorry if you did not like the answer you read.

You are of course welcome to ask more questions if you like, but you were beating a dead horse on this one.

You really want to be confused, ask what oil is best for A model A.

I liked the answer I read....the very first answer. Post #2.

My post #5 was in response to post #2, that originally stated, as the first line, that they were not needed. (The first line of that reply is not there now.) That is why my reply started with "OK, great" and ended with we were going to mount without and revisit this later.

Reply #3 & #4 came in while I was typing #5.

I had my answer of they were not needed and you stated that in your post #7. (But there was no reason why they were being used.)

And then the other answers started appearing. So I asked what the purpose was. (different question)

I fail to see where I was beating a dead horse.

Tom Wesenberg answered that question with the info on the paper liner and the pointy welds. No other answer prior to that had a reason. I asked no more questions after I got the answers.

FWIW, To all those that helped, my friends grandfather was very please that we not only mounted his tires but took the time to find out the information.

Scot

Franchise_24 · 01-13-2014, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fiddlybits

I liked the answer I read....the very first answer. Post #2.

My post #5 was in response to post #2, that originally stated, as the first line, that they were not needed. (The first line of that reply is not there now.) That is why my reply started with "OK, great" and ended with we were going to mount without and revisit this later.

Reply #3 & #4 came in while I was typing #5.

I had my answer of they were not needed and you stated that in your post #7. (But there was no reason why they were being used.)

And then the other answers started appearing. So I asked what the purpose was. (different question)

I fail to see where I was beating a dead horse.

Tom Wesenberg answered that question with the info on the paper liner and the pointy welds. No other answer prior to that had a reason. I asked no more questions after I got the answers.

FWIW, To all those that helped, my friends grandfather was very please that we not only mounted his tires but took the time to find out the information.

Scot

Glad to have you here Scot. If you stick around you will learn that you just need to ignore some people that's all....

RonC · 01-13-2014, 06:27 AM

I use the liners and coat everything with a generous amount of baby powder.

Franchise_24 · 01-13-2014, 06:50 AM

Here is the way I look at it. It's great that you have good rims, and as cheap as the liners are, why not just put them in? I am getting ready to pull all 4 of my tires. I'm going to sandblast the rims and repaint them, Mine will be nice too, but I am still going to put liners on, then new tubes and "newerish" tires if that makes sense lol. No need to get upset and google things from now on, ask away and we will all answer as best we can.

Bottom line, you have the tires off, put rim liners on, it can only help.

ronn · 01-13-2014, 07:06 AM

duck tape gets rid of the quack!

at the very least..........

jerry shook · 01-13-2014, 07:51 AM

Scott. Ask the same questions as many times as you need to. This a form were some will help you if they can. You are new here you will learn.

RonC · 01-13-2014, 08:31 AM

I've pulled apart many wheels-tires that had no rim liners at all and the tubes were decades old and still held air. Personally I use liners as I feel it adds a little extra protection against scuffing on the tubes. Your rims could be pefect now but get some water in there and rust will start to form creating an abrasive surface. In addition tubes available today do not seem to be anywhere near the quality rubber of older tubes.

01-12-2014, 10:24 AM	#1
fiddlybits Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: N Illinois Posts: 447	Tire question I have been helping a friend with his Model A and yesterday we were fixing the flat tires. We were pleased to find that the wheels are clean of rust, both surface and inside the rim and that they run true. We decided to clean them and paint them shiny black and they are all set for the tires to go back on. The question we have is: There are no "rubber bands" on any of the rims. Since the rims are clean and smooth are these needed? Thanks Scot

01-12-2014, 04:30 PM	#6
Hicktick Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Hickory Tavern , SC Posts: 422	Re: Tire question Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Ford used them for a reason , flats are no fun to me . One grain of sand can work its way into the tube and you are flat . Tubes will rub inside , all it takes is low air pressure from sitting .

01-12-2014, 07:02 PM	#8
1931 flamingo Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: new britain,ct 06052 Posts: 9,428	Re: Tire question Cheap insurance for what they cost. FWIW Paul in CT

01-13-2014, 12:10 AM	#9
fiddlybits Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: N Illinois Posts: 447	Re: Tire question Guys, I getting confused here. What I am reading is they are not needed but.... "They are cheap insurance...." "They give peace of mind....." "They are a safeguard... " ......but against what? My question now is: Did Ford ever install these or were they added later when a rim had a problem? Some thoughts: On my old motorcycles I had spoked wheels and the purpose of the rubber band was to protect the inner-tube from the ends of the spokes. But the Model A wheels use a welded spoke that does not go through the rim. If it is to keep the tube from contacting metal then the rubber band is too narrow as it only covers the valley bottom. The tube would still contact the metal from the bead to the valley walls. The rim is not a split rim so there is no need for protection from the split. I could see installing them if I had rust or rough surface problem on the inside of the rims but a new wheel would not have this. (and we don't) An old story: My wife was preparing a ham one time and I watched as she cut the end off the ham and put it in the pan. I asked her why she cut off about 1/5 of the ham and she said that it was the way her mother taught her to bake a ham. Curious, I call my Mother In Law and asked her why she had taught my wife to prepare the ham that way. She said that it was the way HER mother had taught her. When asked about this her mother said "the whole ham would not fit in the tiny pan she had". So, for 2 generations a procedure had been performed for no reason at all other than "that's the way I was taught". It was never questioned. Are rim liners (rubber bands) being put in because "we always have"? Respectfully, what is the purpose of the rim liner in our Model A wheels? Scot

01-13-2014, 12:39 AM	#11
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Tire question "Respectfully, what is the purpose of the rim liner in our Model A wheels?" They protect you from the fear of what could happen if you didn't have them. Actually the original wheels had thick paper liners, and I have an original liner still on one of my wheels. Sometimes the electrically welded spokes left a little spike of sharp steel that could poke a hole in the tube. If your rims have no rough spots from rust and no weld spikes, then you probably have no need for the liners.

01-12-2014, 10:40 AM	#2
Steve Plucker BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Walla Walla, Washington USA Posts: 6,066	Re: Tire question Pros and cons...but I have always put them on just as a safegaurd. Pluck

01-12-2014, 10:53 AM	#3
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: Tire question i always use them and for 2.50 each why not. i bought the good quality brattons metal stem tubes for 34.00 each the bands add piece of mind.

01-12-2014, 10:50 AM	#4
rons49 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: tucson Posts: 136	Re: Tire question Me too. I bought "flaps" from Coker when I purchased my Firestones a few years ago. I did powder coat the wheels, however. I feel that Pcoating is more durable and is more resistant to chips when installing the tire/tub with the spoons.

01-12-2014, 10:54 AM	#5
fiddlybits Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: N Illinois Posts: 447	Re: Tire question ok, great. I am curious what the pros and cons are. I "assume" that the purpose is to protect the tubes from the spokes....but beings that that wheel is a welded spoke design, and the spokes do not protrude inside of the wheel, we were very surprised to find them in two of the five tires, as they would seem un-needed and it seems that they would just be one more item to affect the balance. We're going to mount all without for now but put it on our revisit list. Last edited by fiddlybits; 01-12-2014 at 11:24 PM.

01-13-2014, 02:21 AM	#12
fiddlybits Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: N Illinois Posts: 447	Re: Tire question I am sorry, I don't know what just happened. I am new at this and obviously I have done something that was offending but I don't know what I did. I was just trying to find out if these were a needed item and why they were or why they are being install if they are not. I guess I'll just google it from now on. Thanks for your time. Scot

01-13-2014, 06:27 AM	#16
RonC Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 1,868	Re: Tire question I use the liners and coat everything with a generous amount of baby powder.

01-13-2014, 06:50 AM	#17
Franchise_24 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lexington, Ohio Posts: 783	Re: Tire question Here is the way I look at it. It's great that you have good rims, and as cheap as the liners are, why not just put them in? I am getting ready to pull all 4 of my tires. I'm going to sandblast the rims and repaint them, Mine will be nice too, but I am still going to put liners on, then new tubes and "newerish" tires if that makes sense lol. No need to get upset and google things from now on, ask away and we will all answer as best we can. Bottom line, you have the tires off, put rim liners on, it can only help. __________________ 1929 Model A Ford Coupe

01-13-2014, 07:06 AM	#18
ronn Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: NNNNNNNNJJJJJJJJJJ Posts: 7,645	Re: Tire question duck tape gets rid of the quack! at the very least..........

01-13-2014, 07:51 AM	#19
jerry shook Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 516	Re: Tire question Scott. Ask the same questions as many times as you need to. This a form were some will help you if they can. You are new here you will learn.

01-13-2014, 08:31 AM	#20
RonC Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 1,868	Re: Tire question I've pulled apart many wheels-tires that had no rim liners at all and the tubes were decades old and still held air. Personally I use liners as I feel it adds a little extra protection against scuffing on the tubes. Your rims could be pefect now but get some water in there and rust will start to form creating an abrasive surface. In addition tubes available today do not seem to be anywhere near the quality rubber of older tubes.