I've Been Kidding Myself, The Assembly of My 31 Cabriolet is a Mess!

[Ed in Maine]

I am running out of ideas of what has to be done. This car had a lot of rot in the subframe, so I made a new subframe and door pillars out of white oak using very good original patterns. I started the assembly of my 68C two years ago. I started with the cowl and hood. The seams around the hood look perfect. With the cowl in place, I hung the doors. With the doors hung, I placed the wood door pillars on to the subframe, getting good gaps at the pillar and at the sills. At this point I made bracing to hold the pillars in position as I progressed onward with the quarter panels and rear portions of the car. The rear of this car is like a giant sheet metal spring. It did go together but with difficulty. I think this is when I got into trouble.

Yesterday I removed the bracing and as you might suspect, the pillar did not stay put. There is stress placed on the pillars from the sheet metal. I now have a fit problem on both sides at the top or the bottom of the door pillars. On the driver's side, the top of the door hits the door pillar before the bottom comes close to the body sill. On the passenger side, the bottom of the door hits the body sill leaving about 1/4 in. gap at the top. These problems would make it difficult to close the doors. In both cases, you can push on the door and get it into position but of course there is no way to hold it in this position.
There were no indications of any accident trauma to either door.

At this point, I can't visualize what to do to correct the problem. There is virtually no way to brace the pillars in or out to get a good fit with the doors. I my case, if there was a turnbuckle added behind the seat, it would not work. Moving the pillars further apart, would fix one pillar but aggravate the problem on the other side and vice or versa. The original turnbuckles do not make enough change in the door pillars.

If you guys have any suggestions, I would appreciate them. At this point, I may have to dismantle the car, loosing two years worth of work. Even if I decide to take the car apart, at this point, I don't know what to do differently.

Thank you for any suggestions, Ed

[CT Jack]

I have no personal experience with the type of fit up issues you are trying to solve. If your door openings are basically rectangular and not dimensionally like a parallelogram you might want to consider shimming the door hinges and also somehow provide vertical mounting adjustments.

[Oldbluoval]

Is it A B or C?

Yep Cabby’s are a PIA ….not for first-timers but doesn’t sound like you are one.
Do you have the wooden subrails on a frame (checked for true and level?) and
Loosely bolted down? I start with one rubber shim under ever bolt. Are your bolt holes in the subframe correctly placed and matched frame holes?
Yes, start with cowl and doors. Are the triangular braces at the base of latch pillar original or?? Are the turnbuckles at the upper attached?
Bottom spacing on door opening is important…I’d have to go to prints to be exact. Upper opening has some adjustment with shims, turnbuckle et al.
Just some thoughts

Ooops you’d answered the turnbuckle thing. They do make a difference..at
Least I’ve found they do??

[ronn]

yes Ed, you picked a difficult body style to do. only thing as bad might be a fordor.


I suggest you listen closely to Bill, as this is his baby. pretty sure you stated 68c in previous threads.


undo and try again. you will eventually get it.

[Russ B]

My experience is with the 68A my dad bought new and I replaced all the wood ten plus years ago.i stopped counting my hours after 2,000. Most were in the body build and fitting the body on the frame. It was a labor of love with no deadline.

I went through countless assembly and disassemblies of the body until I got the fit I was happy with. The Cabrioletter had a series of articles on assembly of the 68A and B that were invaluable guides, but still just guides. I understand the 68C has more metal and less wood, so any guidance from me may be irrelevant in part or in whole.

I would get the body fully together and fitted before any attempts to fit it with the frame and hood. While the bodies were originally built over the wood that was assembled on Briggs Body jigs, we have no such jigs. Replacement wood is oversized and needs to be shaved sometimes for proper fit.without original jigs, and original perfectly sized wood, and all perfect body sheet metal, many fittings are naturally going to be needed to get a nice solid fitted body. I did not nail my quarter panels until I was almost happy with their fit to the main rails, including with the cowl and doors installed. Then, I only nailed the front and back bottoms of the quarter panels to the main rails, and did a full body assembly/test fit. The B pillar turnbuckles just tighten the body up, not make major fit changes. The cross braces in the doors were not given a final fit until even after the body was painted and reassembled. Many C clamps are needed. I took my running car to Rootleib to make the hood in place after the body was fitted on the frame. I ran the car a couple years before disassembly and final paint in order to fit the top bows and irons. My painter advised me on additional work to perfect the gaps so paint chipping would not be a future problem. Getting everything to fit nicely can be a multi year process. If the body is not a nice solid, well fitting assembly by itself, the best step might be to pull it apart and analyze what fitting changes are needed. It takes a lot of time, thinking, and many build and tear apart cycles to build a body that Henry Ford had carriage makers build for him.

Just be patient and remember the carpenter’s adage ‘measure twice and cut once’. It applies in spades when building a wood based body.

[Oldbluoval]

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Russ
“I would get the body fully together and fitted before any attempts to fit it with the frame and hood.”
Glad you project went so well! I’ve done many of the wooden structured cars. For me, it’s mandatory to start with a level and true frame. Build the body on the frame it will mount on. Won’t do otherwise, period.
Just my humble opinion….(not to humble!)

[Russ B]

Originally Posted by Oldbluoval

Russ
“I would get the body fully together and fitted before any attempts to fit it with the frame and hood.”
Glad you project went so well! I’ve done many of the wooden structured cars. For me, it’s mandatory to start with a level and true frame. Build the body on the frame it will mount on. Won’t do otherwise, period.
Just my humble opinion….(not to humble!)

No disagreement here. I made a level platform to set my frame on at a good working height.


I did not bolt the frame down, but used the body bolts dropped in the holes just to position the rails on the frame. Hope this clarifies my approach.

[Oldbluoval]

Perfection!
Nice work

[Tinbasher]

From the look of the picture the door appears to be up, but don't be fooled. Is the Hood gap good top to bottom? If so move to the next section. Do the doors line up top to bottom with the cowl? If so then the rear section of the body is to low. Check and see if the gap between the frame and the wood main bearer is equal? This will give you some idea. If your good to the back of the doors then you have to shim the rear seaction of the body up at the bolt mounting points. I worked on a 32 Chevy Cabrolet that has a all wood inner structure. It took me 40 hours to fit the body. Most Auto Body text books have a chapter on shimming and fitting proceedures. Look on line for a used text book.
Take your time and have fun. It will come. JP

[Gene F]

Are you a member of your local model A chapter ?