automatic for an A

[bobbycoke]

I have a friend who had lost a leg and other complications, makes you count your blessings. He is doing great with a remarkable attitude so I feel he will do well! It just got me to thinking, something I often do after the fact, of how it would effect my lifestyle. Mentioned it to the misses and she says I don't have a lifestyle! Bless her black little heart, back to my thoughts, I would certainly miss my A's and felt that with hand throttle and one leg I could do OK... With all this blabbering [no I don't drink] I don't think I have ever seen an automatic transmisson swap article! Plenty of overdrives etc but I feel in my gut that you should be able to put one of those transmissions from a small four cylinder car. Of course most are electronicaly controlled would probably need 12 volts etc. Has there been threads or articles on this and of course the mechinics of connecting the diveshaft to the trany and then the trany to the engine.. has any of you brave souls tried this and if so let us know. For now I will just think about this and research it,than add it to my bucket list [I keep adding to it so I don,t die] . Now I don't have the time but I got that spare engine and I know of a chassis not doing nuting maybeeeee!

[45B]

Art Moore FAST member in Southern California uses Chrysler automatic in his A's as he does not have use of his legs. Jim Brierly who post here often can put you in touch.
Frank

[CWPASADENA]

Yes, Automatics can be very sussecfully be adapted to the Model A.

Art Moore, in Upland, Ca. lost the use of both legs has an automatic and hand controls in his Model A. He goes everywhere in it. I think he was also involved with making the necessary adaptors and doing the research to determine what automatic works best etc. As I understand it, this is a very successful conversion.

I do not have his contact information but if you are interested in talking to Art, send me a PM and I will get it for you.

Chris

[CWPASADENA]

Originally Posted by 45B

Art Moore FAST member in Southern California uses Chrysler automatic in his A's as he does not have use of his legs. Jim Brierly who post here often can put you in touch.
Frank

I did not mean to step on your post, I did not type fast enough.

[Benson]

Bert's in Denver has a complete Chrysler automatic kit.

Steve and crew have installed at least one that I have heard about.

www.Modelastore.com

1-800-321-1931

Store open Tues- Fri 0900-1600 MST
Sat 0800-1200

[Mike V. Florida]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Look here as well,

Adapter kit

From the site;

You should now be able to bolt on any Chev V8 style automatic transmission with no modifications to the transmission or torque converter. This kit does not address the many other modifications necessary to get the automatic transmission into the stock Model A. It merely allows you to bolt the transmission to the engine.

Some of the other modifications that need to be addressed are: parking brake, manual brake linkage, torque tube rearend, crossmember, automatic shift linkage, cooler lines, etc. The transmission that I think works best with this setup is the 200/c transmission. It has the smallest overall case size and is very light. (about the same as the C4). It isn’t an overdrive transmission, but it has a lockup torque converter which can be good for about 300 rpm at highway speeds. It also has much better gear ratios than the 350th or the 400th, and is very reliable when built correctly. It would be wise to take into consideration how much horsepower your engine has before using an automatic trans. By nature, the front pump of the automatic transmission uses some available horsepower to run. If you are using a stock engine, you’ll have very little horsepower left to drive the car. Removing the heavy stock flywheel also means less available torque at low RPM’s. The stock flywheel delivered quite a bit of torque via inertia (rotational force). What I’m saying is that this kit works best with a modified engine.

[kenparker]

I, also, and toying with the idea of an Automatic behind a Model A engine. My missus, Lillian, cant drive a car with one of those clutch thingeees in it. Dick Sparks, who lurks and post occassionally here has done it and it did not look complicated. He used a Ford C-3 or C-4 3 speed auto probably from the 60's or early 70's. It is a relitively small trans. Gonna git 'rount to it soon.

Now, lets see how this stirs up the purist. he-he. ken

[MrTube]

I was a big fan of the TH200Cs bigger brother, the TH200-4R which has overdrive. I think its about the same as far as how much power it eats. A stock TH200-4R is relatively rock solid.

But as others have said, when you only have 40HP on a good day, losing 10-15 of it is a big deal.

[Jim Brierley]

e-mail me at [email protected] for Art Moore's contact info. His A's have hydraulic brakes, I'm not sure if you could operate mechanicals with his hand controls, but if he still has use of one leg he may not need hand controls?

[Benson]

If anyone tries the THM200 conversion be aware that the 1979 version was a disaster. You might want to investigate this before using the early THM200s. I am not sure when the lockout 200-C or 200-4R models came out or if they were any more reliable.

The company I worked for ordered about 1000 or more '79 Chevys for company cars. I ordered mine right away and got the THM350 and 267 V8.

Then some beancounter changed the rules and the V8 and THM 350 could not be ordered. He said that the 200 or 231 V6 (which only came with the THM200 and no lockout converter) got 2 miles per gallon more! "WOOPTY DO"!

Of the twenty or so V6 - THM200 cars here in the Denver office every one had the transmission rebuilt at least twice and some 3 or 4 times before they had 60,000 miles. The same thing happened all across the country.

The THM 350s were bullet proof ... several went over 300,000 and one 500,000.

One guy had a THM 350 fail right before 60,000 but he was running the car backwards and jamming it into drive while jumping on the gas pedal. After several tries it "just made a loud noise" as the driver told the boss and quit going forward.

The company had it fixed and another guy bought it ... that is the one that went over 500,000.

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

Look here as well,

Adapter kit

From the site;

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=4]

[MrTube]

Benson,
The 1980s TH200-C wasn't that great either, this is why they stated "properly built".
The TH200-4R's are usually rock solid in stock form. Another option is the TH700-R4 which is essentially a TH350 with overdrive. This is not a typo, one is -4R the other is -R4.

[Benson]

Mr tube,

Thanks for info ...

My two TH350s went 175,000 (still good when I junked it) and 275,000.

The 275K sedan did leak out torque converter because I put some of that leak "preventer" in ... it was supposed to "soften the seals". It did just that, the seals turned a pink color and leaked worse.

Was drivable but if left over a couple of weeks without driving it, several quarts of the transmission fluid ran out on the ground. If run every week or so very little leaking.

It did this for over 125,000 miles ... I just had to be sure it got driven regularly.

Originally Posted by MrTube

Benson,
The 1980s TH200-C wasn't that great either, this is why they stated "properly built".
The TH200-4R's are usually rock solid in stock form. Another option is the TH700-R4 which is essentially a TH350 with overdrive. This is not a typo, one is -4R the other is -R4.

[Pete]

Jim Brierely can also put you in touch with a guy named Raul (I can't remember his last name) who has had excellent success with automatics in model A's.

[just plain bill]

I have a rebuilt torque flite 904 3 speed no overdrive from a 69 Dodge Dart slant six under the bench for my next project. This is the same trans as used by Art Moore.

[Cool Hand Lurker]

So why isn't anybody talking about putting a FORD automatic transmission INTO A FORD MODEL A instead of some of that off-brand crap?

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by just plain bill

I have a rebuilt torque flite 904 3 speed no overdrive from a 69 Dodge Dart slant six under the bench for my next project. This is the same trans as used by Art Moore.

Bill,
As someone mentioned above, and as you most likely know...more horsepower needed for auto powered with ford four banger!
If anyone ever saw one of Art Moore' Model As with the automatics you'd know why his cars worked very well with automatic transmissions!! He is an amazing model a guy, which some here would call rodder!

[John LaVoy]

Funny how this comes up right now. Yesterday my Ford automatic transmission arrived with the Bendtsen's Speed Gems adapter kit. This is going into the new project for Model A Times. I have spent a couple of days working with Art Moore and spoken with the person that builds the adapters for the Chrysler transmissions he has used. But wanted a Ford transmission in the Model A so went with the Ford A4OD out of a late 80s Ranger pickup. Over the next couple of issues we will be covering the progress of installing it in the chassis of the project.

[MrTube]

Cool Hand Lurker, I would take any of the GM automatics listed in my above comments over any Ford automatic without hesitation and feel the "off-brand crap" comment was uncalled for.

[just plain bill]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Bill,
As someone mentioned above, and as you most likely know...more horsepower needed for auto powered with ford four banger!
If anyone ever saw one of Art Moore' Model As with the automatics you'd know why his cars worked very well with automatic transmissions!! He is an amazing model a guy, which some here would call rodder!

I have a Riley 4 port conversion to install to increase the power. I hope I don't get in trouble with the P C police on this forum for mentioning the name of the head. It was an accessory available to the motoring public in the 30's.

[Keith True]

There was a man about 35 miles from me that was working on an automatic for his A for years.He had lost one leg,(diabetes)and was looking at losing the other one.He researched,thought,studied,measured,for a couple of years first.He wanted the least drain on the HP he could find,with the available HP,torque,and RPM of the A.He wound up going with either a Datsun or Nissan pickup trans from the 70's.The notion of using a Ford,GM,or Chrysler went right out the window on his first day of checking.When he died he had the trans mated to the engine,and the driveshaft mated to the trans.He had built a cable operated control using a stock lever,but the weight of it would drop the trans into lower gears when he hit a bump.He was in the process of making a friction plate and disc to hold it when he died.I don't know what happened to the car,I wound up with his unrestored Tudor but I bought that before he died.There is now a gas station where his house used to be.As for US made automatic transmissions,I thought that Dodge would lead the pack on going bad.The guy I use to rebuild the ones I take out for customers tells me that GM is what keeps him working.From the first snowfall of the season until spring he works overtime every week.He said they can't take the gaff of plowing.Dodge is next,and only a couple of Fords cross his bench a winter.I gave up trying to plow with a GM over 20 years ago.A worn out Ford C6 just keeps plugging along.People find it hard to believe I am plowing with a Dodge,automatic,Cummins powered,that just hit 200,000 miles with the original transmission.That truck has done nothing but plow,and tow its whole life.

[Jim Brierley]

Raul makes the adapters that Art uses. Raul runs a hot Cragar and Art everything from a mild Miller to a hot 4-port Riley. Art puts more miles on his than anyone, and has had good success with the 904 trans, at least since he went to a heavy duty flex plate. BTW, Riley came out with his 4-port in 1933, in my opinion they are the best performing street and short track head ever built for the A & B.

[MrTube]

Originally Posted by Keith True

There was a man about 35 miles from me that was working on an automatic for his A for years.He had lost one leg,(diabetes)and was looking at losing the other one.He researched,thought,studied,measured,for a couple of years first.He wanted the least drain on the HP he could find,with the available HP,torque,and RPM of the A.He wound up going with either a Datsun or Nissan pickup trans from the 70's.The notion of using a Ford,GM,or Chrysler went right out the window on his first day of checking.When he died he had the trans mated to the engine,and the driveshaft mated to the trans.He had built a cable operated control using a stock lever,but the weight of it would drop the trans into lower gears when he hit a bump.He was in the process of making a friction plate and disc to hold it when he died.I don't know what happened to the car,I wound up with his unrestored Tudor but I bought that before he died.There is now a gas station where his house used to be.As for US made automatic transmissions,I thought that Dodge would lead the pack on going bad.The guy I use to rebuild the ones I take out for customers tells me that GM is what keeps him working.From the first snowfall of the season until spring he works overtime every week.He said they can't take the gaff of plowing.Dodge is next,and only a couple of Fords cross his bench a winter.I gave up trying to plow with a GM over 20 years ago.A worn out Ford C6 just keeps plugging along.People find it hard to believe I am plowing with a Dodge,automatic,Cummins powered,that just hit 200,000 miles with the original transmission.That truck has done nothing but plow,and tow its whole life.

Keith, I would expect to hear something similar on a Dodge or GM fan site, except biased differently. I know many shop owners and they all have their own opinions as well. I also know many people who plow with GM trucks.

I would put my money on a good old TH-400 or 4L80E for a truck transmission any day.

Any how thats my opinion. I should know better then to get tied up in an argument about what brand is better.

I apologize for causing the thread to get side tracked.

[PC/SR]

I might add that Art Moore is a consistent hill climb winner in his auto trans set up.

[jfeckford]

C4 is a great auto for A or B banger.
It takes a lot of effort however.
Two adapters and a custom flywheel.
I run this setup in the FAST races with good results.

[Mike V. Florida]

I posted 6 years ago, when this thread was new, a link for adapters for chevy trannys. Here is one for the C4, http://www.honestcharley.com

[duke36]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

another (non stock) option is to find a 2000cc Pinto engine with its automatic; the Pinto fits well but needs all the mod's for engine mounts, etc.

[Kahuna]

I've worked with several C-4's. To me that's the best transmission to adapt to a Model A/B.
They are supposed to use the least amount of power, are cheap to acquire and are easily rebuilt.
You would have to create an open drive setup, but that wouldn't be too difficult at all.
JMO

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by John LaVoy

Funny how this comes up right now. Yesterday my Ford automatic transmission arrived with the Bendtsen's Speed Gems adapter kit. This is going into the new project for Model A Times. I have spent a couple of days working with Art Moore and spoken with the person that builds the adapters for the Chrysler transmissions he has used. But wanted a Ford transmission in the Model A so went with the Ford A4OD out of a late 80s Ranger pickup. Over the next couple of issues we will be covering the progress of installing it in the chassis of the project.

Can the A4OD be configured to keep the torque tube drive line?

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

I posted 6 years ago, when this thread was new, a link for adapters for chevy trannys. Here is one for the C4, http://www.honestcharley.com

That is the kit made buy Flat-o products in Oregon. http://flat-o.com/carproducts/flatomatic.htm It is for the '32-'53 Ford Flathead V-8. Will it work on a Model A engine?

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by CarlG

Can the A4OD be configured to keep the torque tube drive line?

There i no A4OD ford transmission

He prob meant A4LD. Thats a C-3 with an overdrive which came out in 1985.. before that the ranger would have used a C-3

[Special Coupe Frank]

Is there a tranny cooler ? Where do they put it ?

[Bob Bidonde]

GM automatic transmissions circa 1980s were junk. I had three transmission failures due to improperly heat treated parts.

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by kenparker

I, also, and toying with the idea of an Automatic behind a Model A engine. My missus, Lillian, cant drive a car with one of those clutch thingeees in it. Dick Sparks, who lurks and post occassionally here has done it and it did not look complicated. He used a Ford C-3 or C-4 3 speed auto probably from the 60's or early 70's. It is a relitively small trans. Gonna git 'rount to it soon.

Now, lets see how this stirs up the purist. he-he. ken

Ken,

Tell Lillian that she needs a note from her doctor before you will put an automatic transmission into the Model A. She should be able to learn to drive the clutch thingy in a couple of hours if she really wants to (maybe she would just rather you drive). It would take you hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars to install an automatic.

Charlie Stephens

[SteveB31]

We installed one of Art Moore's auto trans kits with the Chrysler 904 about 15 years ago, with a stock engine and 5.5 head. Works great!!! Car is still running strong.

The reason the 904 trans was chosen years ago for this conversion, is the starter is mounted to the transmission. Makes the conversion much easier.

Car must be 12 volt (due to later starter), you must make a trans mount,and have hydraulic brakes (trans gets in the way of the stock cross shaft).

I didn't think, prior to doing this, that a stock Model A had enough power to run this trans. I was wrong. It works perfectly.

Call Art Moore, and have him set you up, but realize that you have to make the changes I listed above. If you need his phone #, call me.

Steve @ Bert's
modelastore.com

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by SteveB31

We installed one of Art Moore's auto trans kits with the Chrysler 904 about 15 years ago, with a stock engine and 5.5 head. Works great!!! Car is still running strong.

The reason the 904 trans was chosen years ago for this conversion, is the starter is mounted to the transmission. Makes the conversion much easier.

Car must be 12 volt (due to later starter), you must make a trans mount,and have hydraulic brakes (trans gets in the way of the stock cross shaft).

I didn't think, prior to doing this, that a stock Model A had enough power to run this trans. I was wrong. It works perfectly.

Call Art Moore, and have him set you up, but realize that you have to make the changes I listed above. If you need his phone #, call me.

Steve @ Bert's
modelastore.com

Hey Steve,
THANKS, for your input and clearing up some often stated misconceptions ,i.e.- not enough power to run an automatic, etc...

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

"Maybe" it's time to consider a more "modern" engine with an automatic???
Please don't SCREAM at me, I just woke up!
Bill W.

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

"Maybe" it's time to consider a more "modern" engine with an automatic???
Please don't SCREAM at me, I just woke up!
Bill W.

Bill,

Bill,

I have to agree with you on this. It is good to have the engine and transmission matched as an assembly from the factory. I am partial to the old Chevy II engines or the current 181 cubic inch industrial version of that engine. Having said that there had better be a VERY GOOD reason accompanied by a note from the doctor for doing this.

Charlie Stephens

[wright]

I have a 904 automatic in my 31 widebed pickup. The engine is freshly rebuilt has a counterbalanced crank and a riley 2 port head. In order to use this transmission I had to attach ladder bars to the rear. I also had to construct a crossmember to mount the ladderbars and rear of the transmission. I also made a crossmember to mount the front of the transmission as well as the front wishbone ball. I also have a cable attached from the transmission to the carburator that adjusts the shift point of the transmission. I have it set where it shifts into second at around 16mph and into 3rd around 32 both dependant on how hard you are accelerating. I am very happy with the way it runs drives and shifts. I have tried to attach pictures but am unsure if they will show up.

I would be happy to answer any questions you may have.

Beau

[Mitch//pa]

Beau
What are u using for a converter spec wise // or a stock slant six converter

Mechanical lockup or non lockup

Rear ratio

[wright]

I don't know what the specs are on the converter but it has a a pilot dia. of 1.81, it has 122 tooth ring gear and it is a 27 spline non lock up converter. The trans is from a 1968 or later 225 slant 6 engine. As far as the rear ratio I don't really know I assume it is the stock 31 pickup rear unless it was changed at some point. Did pickups come with different ratio's? I assume it is pretty high. To check it I should jack up the rear and turn the tire 1 revolution and count how many times the drive shaft rotates? Does this sound correct? I have thought about doing this out of curiosity. I feel the sweet spot for driving is around 51 mph I have had it over 60 but it is reving pretty good at those speeds.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by wright

I don't know what the specs are on the converter but it has a a pilot dia. of 1.81, it has 122 tooth ring gear and it is a 27 spline non lock up converter. The trans is from a 1968 or later 225 slant 6 engine. As far as the rear ratio I don't really know I assume it is the stock 31 pickup rear unless it was changed at some point. Did pickups come with different ratio's? I assume it is pretty high. To check it I should jack up the rear and turn the tire 1 revolution and count how many times the drive shaft rotates? Does this sound correct? I have thought about doing this out of curiosity. I feel the sweet spot for driving is around 51 mph I have had it over 60 but it is reving pretty good at those speeds.

Hey Beau,
Thanks for sharing your work and pictures with us , and explaining how you did your work !

[Tom Wesenberg]

If you just turn one wheel then turn it exactly 2 turns and count the turns of the driveshaft.