The Ford Barn

MrTube · 01-25-2011, 03:03 PM

I'm reading the radiator pads on the crossmembers are different between 28/29 and 30/31. It says 28/29 are raised while 30/31 are recessed.

Is this accurate?

Our so called 31 PU seems to have a 28/29 frame if this is accurate. I also noticed the square foot of the radiator sticks out past the shell on both sides.

Thanks,

Chris J.

Steve Plucker · 01-25-2011, 04:58 PM

Chris,

On my web site I have a "Frame" section where I explained the difference's of the frames themselves...I think if you were to read it, it might help you understand just where the change occured.

Pluck

Mikeinnj · 01-25-2011, 05:27 PM

Chris - I believe what Mr Plucker is referring to is that on September 30th 1929 the front cross member (A5020A) was replaced by (A5020B) by the factory. The answer to your question is, who knows if Ford continued to use the surplus of 29' cross members and/or frames into service under the early 1930 pick-up bodies ???

It sounds like you have a 29' front cross member with the the raised radiator mounts. The change was made to allow for the taller 30-31 style radiator, and was needed to ensure correct alignment of the hood and cowl.

MrTube · 01-25-2011, 06:05 PM

Thanks Steve I forgot your site had frame information as well.

Mike I am a bit concerned. Ours definitely has raised radiator mounts and a 30-31 radiator but the hood seems to fit properly. Hmmm.

JTW · 01-25-2011, 07:29 PM

Has anyone with both recessed and raised front crossed members compared them to figure out the difference in height between the two? It would be nice to know how much to shim, if a 28/29 radiator had to be used on a 30/31 cross member.

MrTube · 01-25-2011, 07:56 PM

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OK I realize this is pushing it, but its hard to tell with the fenders installed

Can anyone tell if this is a 28/29 or 30/31 cross member from these crude pictures. One of them has one of the rubber pads still on it.

Tom Wesenberg · 01-25-2011, 10:52 PM

Hard to tell, but from what I can see it looks like the raised 28-9 style. Is the water outlet the correct TALL one for 30-1?

Just remembered the radiator mounts and short water outlet are correct since you're working on an early 30 AA with the 29 style radiator, so your frame and water outlet should both be OK.

tiquer · 01-25-2011, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Hard to tell, but from what I can see it looks like the raised 28-9 style. Is the water outlet the correct TALL one for 30-1?

I agree looks like 29, but old Henry had a habit of using up old stock in the commercial line. A friend of mine once had a low mileage 29 phaeton with one front fender was a 28 and the other was a 29.

Craig Lewis · 01-26-2011, 12:58 AM

These photos show the depression points on my March, 31 frame.
It seems you have to look up close to the frame to see if it's depressed (post Oct 29)
or embossed (pre Oct 29)
It seems your fenders might be covering that area?

MrTube · 01-26-2011, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Hard to tell, but from what I can see it looks like the raised 28-9 style. Is the water outlet the correct TALL one for 30-1?

Just remembered the radiator mounts and short water outlet are correct since you're working on an early 30 AA with the 29 style radiator, so your frame and water outlet should both be OK.

Tom,

I'm working on what was said to be a 31 widebed pickup.

The water neck in the above pictures was indeed wrong and caused the hose to barely reach the radiator, and at the wrong angle. The radiator shell is a 31 and the bed is indeed a widebed.

Picture of the new water neck installed.

Craig, thanks for the pictures! They show exactly what I have to look for.

31Tudor · 01-26-2011, 08:28 AM

Would a wide bed pickup have an intented firewall?? I know the intended firewall came out in May of 31, but I am not sure when the wide-bed pickup was introduced. I thought it was later 31??

MrTube · 01-26-2011, 08:40 AM

The bed is definitely a widebed.

The fenders are wrong for a 31WB, as is the roof of the cab and the firewall.

By the way, the radiator feet stick out past the shell. Should they actually be tucked in under the fender? Or rest on top of it?

31Tudor · 01-26-2011, 08:49 AM

underneath

MrTube · 01-26-2011, 09:02 AM

I had a feeling it was supposed to get tucked underneath.

Did anyone else notice the 3 bolts on the side of each radiator pad in the above pictures? They go through the fenders into the crossmember.

pat in Santa Cruz · 01-26-2011, 09:14 AM

does the E brake cross shaft go under the frame or through it? If it has arm that extends under the frame, is there a hole in the frame where a through type could go that is capped, or is there no hole? On a 31, the shaft goes through. On the style frame with the shaft having arms extending under the frame, the later types had a covered hole to accommodate the planned through type shaft. This will help determine if your frame is a 31 with an incorrect cross shaft, or an earlier frame.

1931 flamingo · 01-26-2011, 09:16 AM

That's not right. Not sure what you've got there unless your front c/member has been replaced and instead of new rivits it was bolted in. You may have to remove front fenders to figure out exactly what's going on. Perfectly OK to have an indented f/wall, w soft/top and wide bed or most any combination of above by what I've been able to figure out. I passed on a nice "31 indented, hardtop, narrow bed a year ago because I thought it should have had a wide bed. My bad.
Paul in CT
per pat in s/cruz's comments: Do you know serial # on your frame? As he asks is it a '31?

MrTube · 01-26-2011, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pat in Santa Cruz

does the E brake cross shaft go under the frame or through it? If it has arm that extends under the frame, is there a hole in the frame where a through type could go that is capped, or is there no hole? On a 31, the shaft goes through. On the style frame with the shaft having arms extending under the frame, the later types had a covered hole to accommodate the planned through type shaft. This will help determine if your frame is a 31 with an incorrect cross shaft, or an earlier frame.

Hi Pat,

The Ebrake shaft goes through the frame. Does this mean the frame is a late 31?

Flamingo,

No unfortunately I don't know the number. At least not yet

MrTube · 01-26-2011, 12:39 PM

Just double checked. Have to do it while I'm working so it can be tough.

The Ebrake shaft passes through the frame on both sides and then drops down. It does not go under either frame rail.

Does this mean the frame is probably original to the widebed?

31Tudor · 01-26-2011, 05:17 PM

According to the JS the emergency brake cross-shaft that passes through the frame was introduced in April 1930. So used most of 30 and all of 1931.

MrTube · 01-26-2011, 08:02 PM

Sounds like it has a 28/29 cross member bolted into the frame. Frame is a 30 or 31 and the only way for me to know is to pull the cab and look at the serial number.

I appreciate all of the help. Maybe at one point down the road I can do something about the 6 bolts going through the fenders.

01-25-2011, 03:03 PM	#1
MrTube Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,471	crossmember radiator pads I'm reading the radiator pads on the crossmembers are different between 28/29 and 30/31. It says 28/29 are raised while 30/31 are recessed. Is this accurate? Our so called 31 PU seems to have a 28/29 frame if this is accurate. I also noticed the square foot of the radiator sticks out past the shell on both sides. Thanks, Chris J.

01-25-2011, 04:58 PM	#2
Steve Plucker BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Walla Walla, Washington USA Posts: 6,066	Re: crossmember radiator pads Chris, On my web site I have a "Frame" section where I explained the difference's of the frames themselves...I think if you were to read it, it might help you understand just where the change occured. Pluck

01-25-2011, 05:27 PM	#3
Mikeinnj Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northern New Jersey Posts: 1,262	Re: crossmember radiator pads Chris - I believe what Mr Plucker is referring to is that on September 30th 1929 the front cross member (A5020A) was replaced by (A5020B) by the factory. The answer to your question is, who knows if Ford continued to use the surplus of 29' cross members and/or frames into service under the early 1930 pick-up bodies ??? It sounds like you have a 29' front cross member with the the raised radiator mounts. The change was made to allow for the taller 30-31 style radiator, and was needed to ensure correct alignment of the hood and cowl.

01-25-2011, 06:05 PM	#4
MrTube Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,471	Re: crossmember radiator pads Thanks Steve I forgot your site had frame information as well. Mike I am a bit concerned. Ours definitely has raised radiator mounts and a 30-31 radiator but the hood seems to fit properly. Hmmm.

01-25-2011, 07:29 PM	#5
JTW Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Owls Head Posts: 257	Re: crossmember radiator pads Has anyone with both recessed and raised front crossed members compared them to figure out the difference in height between the two? It would be nice to know how much to shim, if a 28/29 radiator had to be used on a 30/31 cross member. __________________ Driving old Fords since 1947

01-25-2011, 07:56 PM	#6
MrTube Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,471	Re: crossmember radiator pads Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) OK I realize this is pushing it, but its hard to tell with the fenders installed Can anyone tell if this is a 28/29 or 30/31 cross member from these crude pictures. One of them has one of the rubber pads still on it.

01-25-2011, 10:52 PM	#7
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: crossmember radiator pads Hard to tell, but from what I can see it looks like the raised 28-9 style. Is the water outlet the correct TALL one for 30-1? Just remembered the radiator mounts and short water outlet are correct since you're working on an early 30 AA with the 29 style radiator, so your frame and water outlet should both be OK. Last edited by Tom Wesenberg; 01-25-2011 at 11:59 PM.

01-26-2011, 08:28 AM	#11
31Tudor Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: North Carolina Posts: 611	Re: crossmember radiator pads Would a wide bed pickup have an intented firewall?? I know the intended firewall came out in May of 31, but I am not sure when the wide-bed pickup was introduced. I thought it was later 31??

01-26-2011, 08:40 AM	#12
MrTube Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,471	Re: crossmember radiator pads The bed is definitely a widebed. The fenders are wrong for a 31WB, as is the roof of the cab and the firewall. By the way, the radiator feet stick out past the shell. Should they actually be tucked in under the fender? Or rest on top of it?

01-26-2011, 08:49 AM	#13
31Tudor Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: North Carolina Posts: 611	Re: crossmember radiator pads underneath

01-26-2011, 09:02 AM	#14
MrTube Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,471	Re: crossmember radiator pads I had a feeling it was supposed to get tucked underneath. Did anyone else notice the 3 bolts on the side of each radiator pad in the above pictures? They go through the fenders into the crossmember.

01-26-2011, 09:14 AM	#15
pat in Santa Cruz Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: santa cruz, calif Posts: 2,011	Re: crossmember radiator pads does the E brake cross shaft go under the frame or through it? If it has arm that extends under the frame, is there a hole in the frame where a through type could go that is capped, or is there no hole? On a 31, the shaft goes through. On the style frame with the shaft having arms extending under the frame, the later types had a covered hole to accommodate the planned through type shaft. This will help determine if your frame is a 31 with an incorrect cross shaft, or an earlier frame.

01-26-2011, 09:16 AM	#16
1931 flamingo Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: new britain,ct 06052 Posts: 9,390	Re: crossmember radiator pads That's not right. Not sure what you've got there unless your front c/member has been replaced and instead of new rivits it was bolted in. You may have to remove front fenders to figure out exactly what's going on. Perfectly OK to have an indented f/wall, w soft/top and wide bed or most any combination of above by what I've been able to figure out. I passed on a nice "31 indented, hardtop, narrow bed a year ago because I thought it should have had a wide bed. My bad. Paul in CT per pat in s/cruz's comments: Do you know serial # on your frame? As he asks is it a '31? Last edited by 1931 flamingo; 01-26-2011 at 09:18 AM. Reason: added question

01-26-2011, 12:39 PM	#18
MrTube Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,471	Re: crossmember radiator pads Just double checked. Have to do it while I'm working so it can be tough. The Ebrake shaft passes through the frame on both sides and then drops down. It does not go under either frame rail. Does this mean the frame is probably original to the widebed?

01-26-2011, 05:17 PM	#19
31Tudor Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: North Carolina Posts: 611	Re: crossmember radiator pads According to the JS the emergency brake cross-shaft that passes through the frame was introduced in April 1930. So used most of 30 and all of 1931.

01-26-2011, 08:02 PM	#20
MrTube Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,471	Re: crossmember radiator pads Sounds like it has a 28/29 cross member bolted into the frame. Frame is a 30 or 31 and the only way for me to know is to pull the cab and look at the serial number. I appreciate all of the help. Maybe at one point down the road I can do something about the 6 bolts going through the fenders.