Need help on 1929 CCPU..body blocks and shimming

[fadams69]

Howdy folks...I'm new to Model A and restoration so I'm a blank page.My problem is the order at which body blocks and shims are to be installed.It appears to me that on most posts I've read that the block is installed with shim nailed to it.I can see where on my 1929 CCPU this could make sense on the two rearmost body blocks(bolt location 4 then location 6) but makes little sense to me on the set of blocks under the cowl which seem to be made to go up into the subframe channel.Do all body blocks minus the shims rest on the splash apron with welting then frame below them?On a close look at my truck it seems to me that all shims would be placed between each respective body block location and the splash apron.Is this correct or am I missing something?I have new blocks coming due to be delivered in a couple of days since mine are either missing or makeshift scraps of wood with the exception of one at bolt location #4 on drivers side.Am trying to get some answers as to how this all lays out before new blocks arrive so I can be somewhat informed as to how to start on this part of the project.Also..should I concentrate on proper hood alignment and fit first then work backward toward aligning doors and cab rear and let the frontmost part of alignment be the baseline for aligning the rearmost section of the cab?I thank any of you folks in advance for any answers or suggestions about this issue.Hopefully I get the forward section righgt then match rear section to it because this truck has severe subrail damage on drivers side for a distance of app 8 inches at rear of subrail.I think I can repair that but need to get front and passenger side alignment right first then hopefully correct rearmost subrail damage corrected with everthing else in good shape.Sorry for the lengthy post but need to be as clear on my issues as I can be.Hopefully my questions will be good so answers can be also!

[wrndln]

The front cowl area body blocks are slipped inside the cavity provided. You can't nail the rubber shims to the body block as there is metal in the way. You slip the large rubber shim between the lower metal on the cowl and the splash apron. There are 3 bolts that attach the cab to the frame and brackets, so the rubber shim can't shift around. I believe Ford started with 3/16" rubber shims that had a cording in the center. If the hood didn't fit correctly Ford either adjusted the radiator shims or the cowl shims, until the hood fit OK. You are correct in that the other body blocks had their shims nailed (2 per shim) to the wood blocks. First the frame welting is glued to the frame, then the splash aprons are bolted to the frame with 2 special large head machine screws at the front and rear, then the body blocks/shims and lastly the body. Hope this helps.
Rusty Nelson

[fadams69]

Glad to meet you Rusty...I really appreciate your answer and think it may help eliminate my confusion..perhaps others may chime in as well with their 2 cents..cant have too much info you know...but if yours is the only reply it certainly was a good one!..Thanx moocho!!

Fred Adams

[wrndln]

Fred,
I should have added, I made my own shims after ordering a set from a well respected vendor that turned out pretty cheesy. They were too thin and didn't have cording in the center. Luckily I had some unusable original shims I could used for patterns. If you need pictures of the shims, let me know. I also have a 29 CCPU, but I need to finish my 28 special coupe and early 29 phaeton before I start work on the pickup.
Rusty Nelson

[1crosscut]

I had the same issue with the rubber shims from the vendors being pretty well useless as they don't have the cording in them and will squish when things are tightend up.
If you have a TSC nearby you can get the belting used in round balers by the foot. It works pretty good.

[fadams69]

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Originally Posted by wrndln

Fred,
I should have added, I made my own shims after ordering a set from a well respected vendor that turned out pretty cheesy. They were too thin and didn't have cording in the center. Luckily I had some unusable original shims I could used for patterns. If you need pictures of the shims, let me know. I also have a 29 CCPU, but I need to finish my 28 special coupe and early 29 phaeton before I start work on the pickup.
Rusty Nelson

Thanx again Rusty..and yes..pictures of the shims might be helpful...I have no idea of their size and dimensions.I had already read of issues with vendor shims and have a length of the TSC baler belting I intend to use for shims.One other interesting issue I probably should address is there is NO frame welting installed on this truck.Am wondering if I can somehow add welting by slipping it in under the splash apron.Dont want to have to remove front fenders,cowl and splash aprons which for me as a newbie seems a formidable task.Am giving some thought to trying to use a continuous length of the TSC belting on both sides of the truck from cowl front to cab rear instead of actual welting and if I can do that little magic trick I can start the shimming process from that setup.Any thoughts on that idea?

[wrndln]

Fred,
I think you would have a real hard time trying to install the frame webbing on an assembled vehicle. The webbing is glued to the frame and the holes for the body bolts need to be punched in the webbing. Using a sharpened cast iron water pipe nipple works great to make the holes - I have 2 pipes of different sizes. I lay the webbing on the end of a 2x6 and whack the pipe with a large hammer to punch the holes. I think if you want the webbing installed right, you would need to remove the cab and splash aprons. Since my 29 pickup was already messed with, it didn't have any frame webbing left on it. I am not sure how the webbing is installed on a CCPU. I would suspect it starts for the frame horns and goes to the rear part of the cab. It is possible it could be installed under the heavy wood pieces that support the bed. It would be nice to have someone that has or has seen the frame webbing on an unrestored pickup post a response to clearify the way the webbing was originally installed by Ford. Until you mentioned the frame webbing on a pickup, I never thought about whether it goes under the bed wood or not. Most of the body block shims are not very large. 1crosscut has a good idea about going to TSC to get some belting that has the cording in it. I was lucky that a friend had some mining conveyer belting that worked great for the shims I made. I cut them out with my bandsaw. I will dig out my shims and post pictures of the large front one and what I think the 2 other ones look like for a pickup. The shims go between the splash aprons and the body blocks and just cover the top part of the frame, so they aren't very large.
Rusty Nelson

[fadams69]

Look forward to the pictures Rusty...I bought a length of the TSC belting last weekend and was impressed with the look of it..think it will do fine.Am in the process of gathering parts on this project and have a good inventory going now...repro stuff from Howells...new cab corners..upper and lower cab panels..T rails...cab wood including new door posts etc.When the new body blocks come from Macs tomorrow I will be ready to set sail on it this weekend.Thanx for the tip on a hole punch for the belting material...do you also have a cute trick to punch holes in the T rails and upper/lower cab backs.(LOL)..guess I'll just have to drill those to match the predrilled holes in the new cab corners..BTW I was sure glad they were already drilled!
One of these days I will bless someone with my old original corners and back panels...to me they were way out of my ability to rehab but I see some of you guys here at the barn would consider them a piece of cake to rebuild so I will hold onto them til someone has need and skill to resurrect them.
Fred

[wrndln]

Fred,
I took some pictures of the body blocks and pads. I don't have pads for the back 2 body blocks for the pickup cab, but I think they are very close to the smaller ones in the pictures. The smaller blocks and pads are for a 28/29 coupe/roadster. The rubber pads only need to cover the frame area which is only about 1 3/4" wide. I made a cardboard pattern first for the front pad and then made sure it fit OK before I cut out the rubber and punched the holes. I should add that if you decide to use iron pipe to punch holes in the rubber, use the END of a 2x6 block to lay the pad on, not the sides. It works much better that way.
Rusty Nelson

[fadams69]

Bingo Rusty!!...thats great..didnt think the cowl shims were full length to match the block so these shots give me some really good info to work with..another round of thanx are in order!

Fred

[fadams69]

Originally Posted by 1crosscut

I had the same issue with the rubber shims from the vendors being pretty well useless as they don't have the cording in them and will squish when things are tightend up.
If you have a TSC nearby you can get the belting used in round balers by the foot. It works pretty good.

Hey dave..glad to meet you and I apologize for not responding to your post til now...I just last weekend picked up a length of the TSC belting and frankly I think it was one of your posts I read a couple of weeks back that prompted me to go to TSC to get it...thanx for the info..that TSC stuff looks really stout and well reinforced.Is there a good or easy way to cut that stuff?Rusty said he uses a band saw which I dont have..perhaps a table saw which I DO have would work.What do you use?

Fred

[wrndln]

Even though I am not Dave, I think a table saw would maybe work for the rectangular pads. It, however, would be hard for the curved front pads. Do you have a scroll saw, I think that would work OK too. A hand coping saw would also work, but would take a while.
Rusty Nelson

[pooch]

I think a table saw with coarse teeth and a bit of a gap around blade may take your fingers off if the rubber gets snagged and pulled in.

I generally cut rubber with a 4 inch grinder with a very thin disc and lay rubber on a good flat piece of wood so you have control and rubber won't move or flick up.

Nail rubber down just outside the cuts would help save the fingers.

[fadams69]

Dont have a scroll saw but do have a coping saw..will just do a bit of experimenting to find what I like best and at same time be safe.

[Bob C]

Since it sounds like you are replacing a lot of the cab it would be a good
idea to make sure your frame is not sagging before you start, may save
a lot of headaches down the road.

Bob

[fadams69]

Glad to meet you pooch...I have to agree that the table saw could be very dangerous...your idea on the angle grinder with thin cutoff wheel just might be a do tho for the straight line cuts as long as its well secured to work eurface..thanx for the ideas ...you guys are great...really helpful!

Fred

[fadams69]

Good to meet you Bob..oddly enough the frame looks like its practically new...once I pulled the rear cab parts and the bed I was amazed to see a frame that was neatly painted silver color with very little dust and almost no grease or oil filming at all!I get the feeling this frame was not the original frame and all the 29 body parts..engine etc were being built up on a different or restored frame.Have checked it for square and sag as best I can and may be slight sag at the transmission area but if any its very slight.Overall if I'm right about that on the frame it seems someone took a lot of pains just to get it on the road but took no pride in trying to get things right.I have no vision of trying to meet judging standards so I have a lot of freedom to do pretty well as I please on things but I certainly want it to not only end up looking good as well as driving reliably then just enjoy what I complete..if one ever "completes" these things(LOL)
Maybe I can post a few pictures along the way of some before and after stuff...thanx for the input Bob...seems that a good straight frame is vital for getting needed results from what I've read here on these very informative threads.

Fred

[fadams69]

Well Bob and others..bear with me please...am making first attempt to post a picture of what I mentioned about the frame looking basically new as well as torque tube,rear end and rear cross member.Still got a bit to learn on the fordbarn interface.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/pictur...009729&thumb=1

[fadams69]

Rusty nor any others..I .am not familiar with the interface to post pictures like the ones in your post on the shims/blocks...I made an attempt to post a picture but it only came across as a link and the link was to only a thumbnail instead of the larger screen beauties you posted,...what do I need to do to post a really good picture like you did?I want to do a number of pix of before/after so I can post them for both my progress as well as points I could use help on..a picture in this project is truly worth a thousand words!

[wrndln]

Fred,
I use Photobucket to upload pictures and them link them to Fordbarn. The procedure is fairly straightforward. The picture you provided a link to is really small.
Rusty Nelson