35-36 Ford Pickup book new thread

[Lawson Cox]

The original thread, started by Jerry Grayson, is so far down the line now, with so many responses, I figure it is time for me to put my 2¢ in. You may have to go back to the original posting for the true story.

RESPONSE TO POSTINGS ON WEB SITES REGARDING

35-36 FORD PICKUP BOOK

While I have been following this thread on all sites where it has been posted, I have remained silent up to this point. I have decided that now is the appropriate time for me to put my 2¢ into the pot. Hold onto your seats folks.

There is an old appellate court case in Georgia where one side did not raise a point of law in the trial court and attempted to raise it for the first time at the appellate level. While this is not a direct quote of the courts decision, it summarizes it nicely. “One must discharge all of its guns in the first encounter. It cannot reserve further shots for use in some future reencounter.” Well, I have withheld my comments until now, and am letting it all hang out as it were. One caveat, however, I reserve the right to be heard in rebuttal to any statements or postings made by or on behalf of the Board as the battle is not over, only the first volley has been fired.

Very brief history.

I received a phone call, out of the blue, from Wayne Deitrich, SE Director, EFV8CA wherein he stated bluntly that the Board had decided to abandon The 35-36 Ford Pickup Book. He advised that he was calling to let me know of that decision before I heard it from someone else. Needless to say, I was thunderstruck and flummoxed. Later I received a copy of the summary of the minutes of the Board meeting where this decision was made, hoping that would clear things up somewhat. It only added to the confusion.

The pertinent part of the summary of the minutes reads “There was a lengthy discussion of the 35-36 pickup book being written by Jerry Grayson and Lawson Cox. After considering the rising costs and the limited appeal, the Board concluded the book would not be profitable to produce and voted to cancel it. (Emphasis added)

Now, the EFV8CA is a not for profit corporation. Correct? The stated purpose of the club is to document and preserve early V8 Ford history and early Ford vehicles as Henry built them. Correct? (Source: By-Laws of the Early Ford V8 Club of America, page 18 of the 2011 National Directory. The same information is posted on the Club web site, www.earlyfordV8.com. )

Query? When did the club become a corporation for profit? No record of such.

Did the Board ever discuss such with the membership? No record of such.

Have they notified the membership of such a decision? No record of such.

Have they notified the IRS of such decision? If not, why not? No record of such.

When the decision was made by the Board to write the book, and they approached Jerry and me to write the book, the Board had, or in the exercise of due diligence could/should have had basically the same facts then as it has now. Why then did they make the decision to write it if it did not appear there would be any interest in such a book? Responses to these postings show that there are a heck of a lot more pickups out there than the Board ever thought about, or than we realized, and all owners are crying for information on what is or what is not correct. Many are not members of the EFV8CA. Several have never heard of it.

It is obvious from our research that early Ford pickups, 35-36’s especially, are the most poorly documented vehicles produced by Ford. In our research we have discovered there is minimal documentation, even in the Benson Ford Research Center, of these early trucks, especially the 35’s. Most of our information has been gathered by inspecting old trucks wherever we can find them. Much has been gathered from dozens of pickup owners we learned about through the web. We have looked at many of these old trucks in barns, sheds, grown up fields with trees growing through the truck. If that isn’t considered “research” what is? Hey, that is hazardous duty.

While the National Club tries to poor mouth itself to its membership, and in essence uses that rational to terminate the 35-36 Pickup book project, it is my understanding, based on highly reliable sources, the club has in excess of $400,000.00 sitting in bank accounts in cash. The Board has denied repeated requests for an outside audit of the club finances. The President refused to discuss the club finances at the Auburn meet President’s meeting.

Again, based on reliable sources, we understand the IRS is breathing down the club’s neck concerning its assets. Is the Board disclosing those facts to the membership? If not, why not?

I understand it has been discussed at length in recent Board meeting as to how to get rid of some of this money before the IRS comes after them wearing hob nail boots and bearing firearms.

If the club is in fact so concerned and dedicated on writing books to record and preserve the history of the Early Ford V8 vehicles, why don’t they expend some of that reported $400,000.00 to complete the book on 35-36 Ford pickups? A drop in the bucket considering the club’s apparent financial status.

If the BOD is so concerned about frugality and preserving Ford history, what do they have to say about publishing the infamous Early Ford V8 Club Cookbook? Yes an Early Ford Cookbook, with the picture of a Model T on the front cover no less!! Several thousand dollars down the tube on that gem. And a picture of a Model T on an Early V8 book? ‘Ya gotta be kidding. (Nope, its true folks.) Maybe they reasoned in their own minds that “Hey, Henry put out a charcoal camping stove, and briquettes, which means someone is cooking on ‘em. Why not publish a cook book and cash in on that market? (Humor intended.)

The 35-36 Pickup Book is probably 2/3 of the way finished and several thousand dollars have been expended in legitimate expenses thus far. The figure of $10,000.00 is the Board’s good faith estimated figure to complete the book, with an estimated completion date of May, 2013. The authors are in general agreement on that assessment.

In attempts to document as closely as possible what the expense on the 35-36 Pickup Book would be as compared to other club books, especially the 35-36 Ford book and the 37 Book, we asked of our S.E. Director what the club expended on formatting those books and printing costs. We wanted to see if our figures were in line with what they had expended on other books. We were flatly refused any assistance on costs of those books. How were/are we to know how closely we are coming to expenses incurred on other books.

To abandon the book would be to throw good money down the toilet, not to mention the club’s total disregard for hundreds if not thousands of hours spent in research by the authors and contributors on behalf of the club without so much as a thank you? Speaks highly of the club doesn’t it? How is this going to play out with future Authors?

I have read with interest the recent posting that Bob York, National President of the EFV8CA made on the EFV8CA website concerning this matter. His post adds absolutely nothing new to the discussion. It simply states, in perhaps slightly more flowerful language, that the Board doesn’t think there is enough interest in the book to where the club could make any money, so the book has been abandoned, thus once again reinforcing the prevailing “for profit” attitude of the Board.

I simply do not believe the statement that the 35-36 Ford Pickup Book would be the most expensive book ever published by the National Club. I am calling BS on that one. Prove that statement Bob.


Lawson

[deuce5wndw]

Lawson, very well written and I for one think the club should reconsider! I do not own a 35 or 36 pickup at present but I have owned a 35 and would buy the book just for reference! Thank you and Jerry for your efforts, Dale.

[Junknshit]

Lawson, Im new here and not a member of the Early V8 Club, so I really know not much about it, but I'd like to put in a couple of cents worth. I used to trust everyone, a handshake was always good with me, but it seems like there are starting to be quite a few cold clammy hands out there now. Could it be that some of the powers that be have it in their minds to wait a year or two and then publish the book in their names to take credit for it? Who has the info you and Jerry have collected, you two or the club? Is there a way that you and Jerry can protect that info so it can't be used without your OK?

Also it is not only stated that the club exists to gather and preserve the information, but also to preserve the vehicles. Could it be that a couple of the higher ups would like to use the "little bit of club money" that is in accounts to preserve some of their own vehicles?

I have belonged to clubs, been an officer in clubs, been an area rep for an international car organization, and held offices and been on the B.O.D. of a 401c3, and have seen all kinds of things happen when a certain group of people get in the wrong place for their ilk to be.

Best of luck to you and Jerry on this venture.

[ken ct]

Good luck Lawson+Jerry,seems like almost 1/2 million in the coffers dosent sound like a non-profit orginization to me.Hope you win your fight.Its put a sour taste in a lot of members mouths over this.Maybe this club has gotten too big for its britches like polititions,me and many others feelings on this. ken isidor ct. Member for 25 yrs.

[B-nut]

Many members don't list the cars they own on the roster.Some Early Ford nuts may be a little shy about how many reside in the shed(present company excluded). Two such trucks are in my town ,both on the road but needing work.I suspect thousands of 35-36 Pickups are out there waiting for some help from a correct book.Many folks would buy the book just because they like the trucks. Can we think of a more accurate way to count trucks.This is a forum with a limited audience but perhaps a pre-publication sign up within the club would help gauge interest. Have been eagerly awaiting said book and am very disappointed.May your efforts be rewarded.

[Hoop]

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Lawson,

There's another quote that originated in Georgia ... not from the legal bar, but supposedly from the bar at the King of the Road Motel in Valdosta.

"I never went to bed with an ugly woman, but I sure woke up to a few."

It's always a heartbreak when you find out she's married (has been three times) and about to have that Camaro she's driving repossessed.

Maybe we could put some music to this whole episode, take it to Nashville and make some real money?

"The V8 club turned my pickup into a "dump" truck ... sure took a dump on me."

(I'm really good at writing lyrics.)

[Vic Piano]

Hey Hoop, a hidden talent... LOL. As for Lawson & Jerry, it really is too bad that the EFV8 club "done them wrong". That behavior reinforces my reasons for leaving the club after many years. Thought I'd miss the V8TIMES but even that has passed. Vic

[oldford2]

It seems like this whole "ugly affair" could have been avoided if the board had worked this out well in advance with Lawson and Jerry. There should have been early discussions with the authors regarding the board concerns. Maybe a mutual decision could have been agreed on by both parties. If a blindside phone call was made, that is not right.
John

[Junknshit]

Lawson, when I posted post #3 last night I must have been in la-la land. After the 3rd paragraph, I was going to post an example of something that happened very recently, and is still in the audit stages.

A local county historical museum (401c3) has been in operation for many years. The museum was run on donations for entry, membership fees, fund raisers, and a trust set up by a local family in the amount of $435,000. The money earned by the trust was used for whatever was needed, but the initial amount was to be untouched. The building is an old train depot leased from the railroad. (very fair lease for the county) A few paid people at the top and the rest was done by volunteers. New officers elected on a rotational basis supposedly to keep any certain group of people from gaining control. Past two years the members were told that financial affairs need not be discussed at meetings, and if someone asked on the side they were told they weren't on a need to know list.

Anyway 2 months ago lease was due plus utilities and other monthly bills. Guess what, NO MONEY to pay these. Members chipped in and payed the bills. They then notified other members and a meeting was held at which the officers were all questioned, no-one knew anything, or they passed the buck to lower officers. Members took a vote (majority at a meeting ruled) and "fired" all officers, closed the museum temporarily, and brought in an independant audit firm. Museum is back open with volunteers, audit will be finished soon, but not only is the money all gone, including the $435,000 trust, (how did they do that?) but they have found articles that were donated to the museum by local families with the stipulation that they remain property of the family, in officers private collections. They even had bills of sale from other officers.

I'm not saying that is what is happening in your instance, but it's something that could happen. I hope not.

Best of luck to you and Jerry on this adventure.

[jerry grayson]

Originally Posted by Junknshit

Lawson, Im new here and not a member of the Early V8 Club, so I really know not much about it, but I'd like to put in a couple of cents worth. I used to trust everyone, a handshake was always good with me, but it seems like there are starting to be quite a few cold clammy hands out there now. Could it be that some of the powers that be have it in their minds to wait a year or two and then publish the book in their names to take credit for it? Who has the info you and Jerry have collected, you two or the club? Is there a way that you and Jerry can protect that info so it can't be used without your OK?

Also it is not only stated that the club exists to gather and preserve the information, but also to preserve the vehicles. Could it be that a couple of the higher ups would like to use the "little bit of club money" that is in accounts to preserve some of their own vehicles?

I have belonged to clubs, been an officer in clubs, been an area rep for an international car organization, and held offices and been on the B.O.D. of a 401c3, and have seen all kinds of things happen when a certain group of people get in the wrong place for their ilk to be.

Best of luck to you and Jerry on this venture.

I do not think that any one has any designs on our work. I do not suspect that any of the EFV8 BOD would or could do anything like you suggest. I do not suspect anyone in the national of any criminal activities. Maybe bad judgement!!!!!!! LOL
Lawson and I have all the research in our possession.

[jambottle]

As a member in good standing in the early v8 club(After reading this ;not for much longer)I see in my latest issue ofV8 Times there is on page 10, a list of officers that you are requested to send any gripes to.The second on the list after the president is an officer for and i quote "miscellaneous compliments-gripes' he is also the club vice-president;Don Singleterry,490 vinewood Drive,Oakley,CA.94561.(925-625-8202)email;[email protected] I will try to attach a pic of the page. Maybe someone could copy this thread over on the HAMB,I`m sure a lot of the guys over there have the same interest in the 35-36 ford trucks.

[jambottle]

Pic`s?

[Lawson Cox]

Thanks. Good point. Perhaps we should notify the club in accordance with those requirements.

[V8COOPMAN]

Amazing, when the "higher-up 'muckety-mucks' " in an organization, or in a country for that matter, seem to forget WHO put them into those "trusted" positions, AND also seem to forget WHY they were entrusted to fill those positions in the first place. The MEMBERS and / or The PEOPLE voted these 'muckety-mucks' into POWER, to act on behalf of the wishes of such members and people. Sure seems to be a whole lot more of this "forgettin' " stuff goin'-on all around us these days. I've contemplated joining THE organization several times over many years, but some "smell" in the air has kept telling me not to do it. When it gets past the point of members' or peoples' wishes being blatantly ignored or overlooked, and when it becomes obvious that reasonable questions are side-stepped and realistic answers from said 'muckety-mucks' are not as they should be, it should become clear as mud that the organization OR country in question is not "telling-all" for what should be suspected as good (read "NOT SO GOOD) reasons. Sounds like it's way past time for ALL the "good-ol'-boys" to be moved-on down the road for the good of the majority. To Lawson and Jerry...you both have my best wishes to prevail in this monumental task that you guys have put so much effort into for the good of this old Ford game that so many of us love for the right reasons. DD

[Henry/Kokomo]

An interesting - and distressing - thread. I know of at least one other well established and well respected national organization which has done a very similar sort of thing within the last year or so. This particular non-profit organization has a very large annual meeting with lots of activities. It has always has been successful and well received by the memberhip. Suddenly, most of the conference committee was relieved of duty on the basis that each conference should be a "profit center". Seems like there's something that turns the leaders of large organizations greedy as their stature increases. This event puts my continued membership in the EFV8 Club in question, to say the least. Thanks to Lawson and Jerry for their efforts. I certainly hope this decision can and will be reversed.

[1931 flamingo]

Lawson: If i remember correctly you're a "lawyer"? Did you enter into any kind of "contract" for this endeavor??
Paul in CT

[Lawson Cox]

Only the old fashioned "Gentlemen's Agreement" But a verbal contract is enforceable none the less. We are contemplating taking legal action.

[Hoop]

Boy, this is getting interesting.

Paper Chase was always one of my favorite shows. Professor Kingsfield (boy that's close to Kingsford) would always really get into Contracts.

"Mister .... Hart. Misters Cox and Grayson offered to write a book for the Early Ford V8 Club. Upon submitting the draft and after long research, the EFV8 Club, who had orally promised to publish the book, changed their mind. Cox and Grayson seek damages. Mister Hart, was there a contract?"



Hart replies, "In order for a contract to exist, there are certain requirements that have to be met. One requirement is the establishment of a commitment in the form of a date by which performance must occur. If there was no date set requiring the submission of a draft by Cox and Grayson, and further if there was no set date by which the EFV8 was to publish the book, the existence of a contract is seriously in doubt and may not exist."

Kingsfield, "Thank you Mr. Hoop ... er, Hart."

(How am I doin', Lawson?)

[Lawson Cox]

Originally Posted by Hoop

Boy, this is getting interesting.

Paper Chase was always one of my favorite shows. Professor Kingsfield (boy that's close to Kingsford) would always really get into Contracts.

"Mister .... Hart. Misters Cox and Grayson offered to write a book for the Early Ford V8 Club. Upon submitting the draft and after long research, the EFV8 Club, who had orally promised to publish the book, changed their mind. Cox and Grayson seek damages. Mister Hart, was there a contract?"



Hart replies, "In order for a contract to exist, there are certain requirements that have to be met. One requirement is the establishment of a commitment in the form of a date by which performance must occur. If there was no date set requiring the submission of a draft by Cox and Grayson, and further if there was no set date by which the EFV8 was to publish the book, the existence of a contract is seriously in doubt and may not exist."

Kingsfield, "Thank you Mr. Hoop ... er, Hart."

(How am I doin', Lawson?)

Close, but no cigar. LOL

[Hoop]

Doggonit. I always have trouble with words like "estimated."

[Bob G/Spanaway]

I sent a not-real-nice note to Mr. Singleterry.
What a shame the club acts like this.
Bob

[ford38v8]

I acknowledge that this will not be recieved with joy, and i hope not to raise blood pressures, but as I understand it, there were two volunteers that came forward to perform a task. The club expressed great interest, and promised reimbursement of expenditures while performing that task. The parties agreed, and performed as promised. The club cancelled the arrangement before completion of the task and allowed that the unfinished product of the effort should remain in the possesion of the volunteers, with no repayment to the club of the expenses paid the volunteers. I fail to see a viable cause of action to be taken by any party to the cancelled arrangement.

Not to confuse, I would remind those whose blood pressure has risen a notch, I too deplore the action of the Board, would hope for a reinstatement of the project, and would certainly buy both soft and hard cover copies, as would so many others that are not even aware of this conversation. That, I'm afraid, is likely not an option now nor in the near future, given the strong words used here and in several other venues. There are no winners here, and many losers. I'm sure that most if not all would love to turn back the clock and begin anew. Perhaps in the spirit of the Season, we may all begin to rise above the expressed anger, consider the value of some of the helpful suggestions put forth, and maybe if we're lucky, Lawson will celebrate his next birthday with a completed book ready to publish. Jerry, not ignoring you, just celebrating with Lawson this month!

[Lawson Cox]

Originally Posted by ford38v8

I acknowledge that this will not be received with joy, and I hope not to raise blood pressures, but as I understand it, there were two volunteers that came forward to perform a task. The club expressed great interest, and promised reimbursement of expenditures while performing that task. The parties agreed, and performed as promised. The club cancelled the arrangement before completion of the task and allowed that the unfinished product of the effort should remain in the possession of the volunteers, with no repayment to the club of the expenses paid the volunteers. I fail to see a viable cause of action to be taken by any party to the cancelled arrangement.

Not to confuse, I would remind those whose blood pressure has risen a notch, I too deplore the action of the Board, would hope for a reinstatement of the project, and would certainly buy both soft and hard cover copies, as would so many others that are not even aware of this conversation. That, I'm afraid, is likely not an option now nor in the near future, given the strong words used here and in several other venues. There are no winners here, and many losers. I'm sure that most if not all would love to turn back the clock and begin anew. Perhaps in the spirit of the Season, we may all begin to rise above the expressed anger, consider the value of some of the helpful suggestions put forth, and maybe if we're lucky, Lawson will celebrate his next birthday with a completed book ready to publish. Jerry, not ignoring you, just celebrating with Lawson this month!

We are planning on continuing the project without the EFV8CA. We will finance it ourselves. We are working with others to see if we can accomplish our goal.

The saga continues as of this moment at least. Thanks for the encouragement.

[David J]

Lawson & Jerry , Count me in for a C-note donation to help with expenses . I will also buy 2 copies of the book . One hardcover to save & one soft to paw up if you do it like the 32 book .I will take two copies either way . I'll even throw an additional fiddy in if you both sign it . I have the hardcover 32 book but we gotz ta git DavidG ta john henry it . Bribe mebbe ? Lemme know & good luck .

Originally Posted by Lawson Cox

We are planning on continuing the project without the EFV8CA. We will finance it ourselves. We are working with others to see if we can accomplish our goal.

The saga continues as of this moment at least. Thanks for the encouragement.

[JM 35 Sedan]

Originally Posted by Lawson Cox

We are planning on continuing the project without the EFV8CA. We will finance it ourselves. We are working with others to see if we can accomplish our goal.

The saga continues as of this moment at least. Thanks for the encouragement.

Lawson, that's good news! I say screw the shortsightedness of the EFV8 Clubs present BOD. If you plan to take advance orders let us know. I will sign up for three copies and send money in advance if you want to do that. Two of those three copies would go to friends who are currently working on '35-'36 pu's and are not members of the EFV8C/A. Another thought I had, that you may already thought about, would be to include a copy of that picture painted for you for your birthday by Bob's wife Peggy. Maybe include that on the front or back cover. What'sha think?

[V8COOPMAN]

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".......there were two volunteers that came forward to perform a task. The club expressed great interest, and promised reimbursement of expenditures while performing that task. The parties agreed, and performed as promised. The club cancelled the arrangement before completion of the task and allowed that the unfinished product of the effort should remain in the possesion of the volunteers, with no repayment to the club of the expenses paid the volunteers."

Lawson and Jerry...As you can read in the above, partial quote from another post in this thread, there are a couple of references that confuse me. The first reference states: "The club expressed great interest, and promised reimbursement of expenditures while performing that task." The second reference from the above that begs some clarification: "...and allowed that the unfinished product of the effort should remain in the possession of the volunteers, with no repayment to the club of the expenses paid the volunteers."

With those two references being made, I, for one, am confused as to whether or not you guys actually were remunerated for ANY reasonable expenses incurred during your research and editing of the "book". I also now wonder that... IF the club DID re-imburse expenses, is it TRUE that the club still ALLOWED ownership of the "book" to remain with Misters Cox and Grayson, WITHOUT repayment to the club of the expenses paid to the two gentlemen? Seems to me that whatever the answers to these two questions might be, could possibly shine an entirely different light on the potential outcome of your stated situation. A somewhat similar example that comes to mind might be: A guy goes into an attorney's office to have a will drawn-up. The attorney requests, and IS paid, an initial retainer fee to draw-up the initial documents. The client acknowledges that he will provide the attorney with the remainder of the information and documentation that is needed to complete the will at a later date, along with the reasonable expenses that the attorney requires to complete the will for the client. Then, the client never shows his face in the attorney's office again. If the attorney was smart (which ALL attorneys are), he already received expenses from the client to perform the services rendered to that point.

The point of all this is that I don't remember Lawson or Jerry making the statement in either of the on-going threads as to whether or not you guys have been fairly (or otherwise) remunerated by the club for the expenses that I assume you two obviously incurred to date. Did I overlook that detail? DD

[TJ]

V8COOPMAN, good question.If there was reimbursement, how much and for what expenditures? It might explain why the project was cancelled.
I have also seen a bunch of posts on this subject where the posters have one of these trucks, but they are not a club member or never wanted to be a club member. Seems to me that they are part of the problem. Their truck is not counted among the total in the club and they don't vote for the folks who volunteer their time to run for a director position. These same people seem to think that the V-8 Club should spend money on a project that may lose a lot of money. The V-8 Club is not like the government, maybe that is why they are on solid financial ground. Directors have a duty to not waste membership funds.
I don't know all the facts about this project, but I do see that there are some unanswered questions. I also suspect that there may be some copyright issues that need to be cleared before the book can be moved forward by the authors. If material was borrowed from the V-8 Club that was already copyrighted by the club, there could be a real problem.
From a personal point of view I think the authors should have gone back to the BOD after the dust settled a bit to talk all this over. Posting this drama on the internet was not a good idea in my opinion. It might make you think you won the battle, but you probably lost the war.

[David J]

I came to the conclusion that I don't know enough about this to stick my big nose into it so I am going to go lay by my dish . I do hope it can be resolved though as this kinda thing doesn't help anyone .

[TonyM]

I think the authors should continue the project anyways. Self publishing would be way too expensive--you would never make the money back. You would need to go with a real publishing house.

I have published books with a real publishing house, and I still have books in print that I get checks for. If you are going to pitch this book to a publisher, you need to tell them right up front--in the initial book proposal--who the book will be marketed to and your marketing plans. This is probably one of the most important aspects of a serious book proposal to a publisher. If there is no market for the book, then the publisher won't publish the book; it is that simple. If it is a niche market (like my work and like the Ford Pick up book) you have to really convince the publishers that the book is viable and that you have a plan to market your book.

If there is no similar book on the market, then you have to demostrate to the publisher why your book is worth publishing. If there is a book on the market that is like yours, then you have to tell the publisher why your book is superior. If you are going to pitch your book to a publisher then it better be good. If there are problems they will let you know. If it is crap, they will pull the plug. If you have no marketing plan, they won't even consider your project.

If you publish yourself, an expensive proposition, then it better be good too. Get yourself a good editor (not free). I have read and reveiwed quite a few self published books in the last few years. Most have good topics or subject matter, but most are poorly written, poorly organized or poorly edited.

In the book proposal, the author has to demonstrate to the publishing house why the book should be published, how the book will be marketed (that is, who the likely customers are and how to get to them), and why you are the best guy to write that book. Plus, most importantly, the work has to be good.

Good luck.


TonyM
Book author

[FL&WVMIKE]

ken ct ................................
You say that the Early V8 Ford Club has over $400.000.00 in the bank. Is that true ? If so, just what do they plan to do with it ?
I feel it should be spent on educating V8rs. What would be a better way than publishing quality books.
The V8 Club needs us, more than we need them.
MIKE

[V8COOPMAN]

Lawson or Jerry...

I was wondering whether or not either of ya got to read my questions at the end of POST #28 since this thread has become somewhat "buried". You folks had commented in your two threads relating to your forthcoming and anticipated '35-'36 pick-up "book" project that the club had suddenly decided not to finance the project any farther. I was unable to find, in either of your initial comments, whether or not the club HAD, in fact, paid for your expenses up to the point that the BOD determined that the club was not going to continue to finance the "book" any farther. What a shame! Still curious as to whether they re-imbursed for the expenses you guys DID incur. If they DID remunerate you guys, did they limit you to "cheesy" motels, or did they allow you to stay in reasonable, decent accomodations? I'm sure I remember y'all stating that you made trips to The Archives and that had to cost $$$. Along the same lines, did they limit you guys to something akin to meals at burger-type joints only, or did they allow meal expenses while traveling at reasonable and acceptable restaurants? Also, now that I think about it, did you possibly consult or hire any publisher or editor along the way? I would think expenses for those could surely add-up in a hurry. So again, I can't remember reading whether or not that you all were re-paid for expenses incurred up to the point of the club deciding not to continue-on with the project. Sure hope y'all find a way to continue with this valuable endeavor. DD

[Fe26]

A very good point V8COOPMAN. I would assume that the club would meet reasonable expenses on an ongoing basis. In that way, the presenting of invoices to the club would also allow the opportunity for the authors to present progress reports to the club. In this way the BOD can see that progress is being made and what stage the project is at. This is important, anybody would get a little nervous if they are continually shelling out money, and getting no feedback or reports.

An earlier post of mine makes referance to the processes the club should have in place to ensure that these projects are conducted in a professional way.

The authors have stated they are proceeding with their project via other means. This is good and bad news. Good for us guys who have been eagerly waiting for this book. But bad news for gaining an insight into what went wrong and why. Also this is very bad news because a precedent may have been set, whereby the club commissions (anything) then changes its mind (on a whim?)

In this regard I would again urge the authors to 'write the letter'. If this decision is allowed to stand or at least remain unchalleged then who, will ever be able to trust this current BOD again. Issues of procedural fairness and appropriate use of funds are also called into question, let alone the clubs own philosophy regarding the documentation and preservation of our cars.

Lawson and Jerry, you may feel you have been insulted and treated unfairly, however you must put those feelings aside and write the letter. You have gained much support on Fordbarn, and we will support your claims. Again,the issues are now bigger than just your book, the BOD must be called to account for the way they arrived at their decision and what was the genesis for that decision. Their treatment of you demonstrates a failure on the BOD's part to properly adhere to the clubs own charter plus other issues raised on this forum.

Your silence here is also a little concerning, I'm sure many of us would like to be kept appraised of what is happening.

[Pamlico]

Mr. Cox and Mr. Grayson,
If I was sitting in the same position as you, with the accumulation of material that you have, I might consider trying to contact Mr. Tom Cotter.
If you don't know, he is the author of several "...in the Barn" books on automotive archeology. He lives in the Charlotte area and is a bonafide old Ford nut (Woodies are his thing). He is also a very gracious and personable gentleman.
If you could engage him in a conversation about your situation, he could probably steer you toward a solution to getting the book out. He is what you call "connected." But this is just me talking.......

[jerry grayson]

Guys
Many thanks for your support! We are just working on the book as if the Club was not involved and are not going to make any quick or rash decisions about its future.
We hope that it will be published someday somehow because the work should be available to the hobby. Lawson is the one assembling the words and we both are the researchers. The club did pay some of our expenses, travel and motel- no meals or other.

[Paul Dobbin]

Very hot topic with lots of angry comments. What I've not seen is an actual cost of this book's production. What is the cost of the proposed book and costs of the previous publications?
We're all upset, but none of us has the cost figures that the BOD had.
We waited for years for the 1933-34 book, and it turned out to be worth the wait.
I understand that there are more 33-34 cars than 35-36 trucks and realize
much of the information might already be in other books. Does that mean it might be a smaller book than the 1932 Book and the 33-34 Book?
There is much we don't know about the new book at this time and getting our shorts all in a knot is a mistake without the facts.
I'm a EFV8 member and a 35 Ford Pickup owner who would love the finished book, but not at all costs. There has not been enough in the way of facts to cast judgement on the BOD and our officers.

[ken ct]

Originally Posted by FL&WVMIKE

ken ct ................................
You say that the Early V8 Ford Club has over $400.000.00 in the bank. Is that true ? If so, just what do they plan to do with it ?
I feel it should be spent on educating V8rs. What would be a better way than publishing quality books.
The V8 Club needs us, more than we need them.
MIKE

Someone else through out that figure on here,i just quoted him.This is a sad situation. ken ct.

[TJ]

Paul, great comments. A BOD has a financial responsibility to it's members whether they are non profit or not. I'm sure this decision was not made lightly. As you say we have no idea of the costs incurred with this book vs other V-8 books.

It is still my opinion that this entire issue should not have been aired on the internet just to stir up people to gain support. There were lots of negative comments/assumptions made by members and non members against the V-8 Club. You know what the say about assumptions without facts. The authors should have taken a step back, let the dust settle, and come back to the BOD with a new plan to cut expenses,if that was the issue. If the project is that important there are ways to get the job done.
As one who served on the V-8 BOD I can tell you that there have always been issues/problems with getting books to print. It is the "nature of the beast", but in the end they got to press and into the hands of V-8ers. The BOD worked with the authors, the desktop publishers and printers to get the job done. To my knowledge every book that was ever proposed to the club is now in print and available to anyone for purchase. The V-8 Club has an excellent track record for publishing quality books.

In my opinion posting this drama on the internet (it's defintely a first) was a poor choice. The authors have surely put themselves in a difficult position if they have to come back to the BOD with a new plan. I would guess that board members would be very reluctant to have any discussions/negotiations with the authors knowing that they might be posted on the internet. As the old saying goes "don't pee in the water as you might have to drink it". JMHO

[Hoop]

"It is still my opinion that this entire issue should not have been aired on the internet just to stir up people to gain support. There were lots of negative comments/assumptions made by members and non members against the V-8 Club."

"In my opinion posting this drama on the internet (it's defintely a first) was a poor choice."

TJ, in government, that is known as "sunshine." Seems like you are in favor of keeping such issues secret. This works entirely to the board's advantage ... nobody knows what's going on unless the board tells them. Maybe you don't believe that the general membership should be informed.

"The authors should have taken a step back, let the dust settle, and come back to the BOD with a new plan to cut expenses,if that was the issue."

Wouldn't it be more reasonable to expect the authors to simply write the book ... and for the Board of Directors to come up with the financial plan on getting it printed? Isn't that their job?

"There were lots of negative comments/assumptions made by members and non members against the V-8 Club. You know what the say about assumptions without facts."

Seriously, TJ, haven't you done the exact same thing? ... "my opinion" with no facts?

Your post gives insight into the way the board must think since you were once a member. It is amusing that you blame Lawson and Jerry for taking a piss in the watering hole ... while you conveniently forget that it was the Board of Directors that sucker-punched the project.

This is not meant to be argumentative, but certain posts have to "read right" especially when they represent a BOD position and are offered by a former board member.

[TJ]

Hoop, as you noted ,I said this was my "opinion" and that's exactly what it is, an opinion. Others on this board made accusations about the V-8 Club and did not say it was their opinion. Someone even acccused the club of not wanting commercial vehicles in the club. I guess they forgot to read the by-laws and judging rules on commersial vehicles.

As for keeping things secret where did I say that? I simply said that posting the drama on the internet was not a good idea. Let's take an example here; someone needs a loan on a house so they go to the local lending agency. After filling out a lot of paperwork they are denied the loan. So they get angry and post on the internet that the lending agency is a bunch of so and so's and how bad they were for not issuing the loan. Was this a smart move? I don't think so, as other lenders may be real reluctant to deal with this person due to the bad publicity given to the first agency. Could it be that others could be reluctant to get involved with this book project for fear if it does not work out that they could be the next subject on the internet? Actions can have consequences far beyond the immediate issue, which was my point("don't pee in the water as you might have to drink it").

Let me ask you this question; would you have someone build you a house and not ask questions about expenses along the way? or would you have them build it and then figure out how you were going to pay for it?

I do not speak for the BOD. As a former board member I speak for myself and my "opinion" does not represent anyone other than myself. I've been a V-8 Club member since 1974 and have seen this club do a lot of good things for it's members. Referring to my previous post the club has brought to it's members many fine books on the flathead era cars. Each and every book had it's unique problems in getting them published, but they all were completed and placed in the hands of V-8ers. I have no idea what occurred with this pickup book. I trust that the BOD made a decision based on the information that they had in hand at that time.
This club is run by volunteers who do their best in managing the club and trying to do their best for the members. Anyone(member in good standing) can submit their name and volunteer for the BOD, so Hoop I'll be looking for you to submit your name and run for election. It's a lot of work for no pay (it will actually cost you some money on occasion) and you will be in the "hot seat" on occasion over a book or some other issue. You have to be good at "catching spears". There will be openings on the BOD next year, so let us know if you have applied.

[Hoop]

" ... so Hoop I'll be looking for you to submit your name and run for election."

Back in the initial thread on this subject, I posted, "The worst response to folks who complain about an organization's operation is "if you don't like it, run for the board yourself and fix it.""

It's the classic put down from guys who do not want to face criticism. Acknowledging negative feedback and careful consideration of its validity is an essential in guiding an organization.

Your example of applying for a loan to build a house or asking about expenses for building a house has nothing to do with the issue. That's known as "smoke."

The fact, if you are willing to believe Lawson, is that he received a surprise phone call bluntly informing him that the club had decided to abandon the project.

The board did not invite him and Jerry to come in and discuss it ... it was over.

Do you believe that ending the project without fully discussing it with Jerry and Lawson was proper? You say all the other books submitted/proposed were eventually printed ... did the board conduct themselves in the same way at those times? Where's the developmental guidance? Is this the type of nurturing co-operation that will lead to a successful printing?

There is one more very important point and it is the open discussion of this issue. Lawson and Jerry need to have an open forum to find out just how much support there is for their book. The Ford Barn provides that ... and it does not matter if the opinions offered are those of Early Ford V8 Club members or not. This discussion is about if/how/why a book dedicated to 1935/36 Ford PU's should be published and by whom.

Nobody has to join the EFV8 Club to participate. And certainly nobody has to run for the club's board of directors just because they entered this discussion.

Suggesting that I apply shows just how desperate the club must be!

Edit: TJ, I do respect you and your serving on the board. Thank you. Hopefully the result of all that's been discussed will help folks give more thought to the issue. If a 1935/36 Ford PU reference is published, then everyone has contributed and everyone "wins" in the debate regardless of their views.

[Frank Miller]

Opinions rumors assumptions and such need to be aired. We can't explain the truth until we get the lies straight. Not exactly but the internet can squash rumors as quick as it starts them. With no board member denying false accusations they will grow exponentially. A few years ago someone made a comment about the finances of our RG. The board decided to present a budget once a year outlining how the money is spent. A few years ago I was under the understanding that the book sales were keeping the club afloat as the membrship dues barely covered expenses. Now we have 400k. Not everything the club does needs to show a profit. As a matter of fact none of it should. Here's why. http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2...us-threatened/