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06-15-2015, 08:44 AM | #1 |
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Adding Diesel to Gas Helps Fight Rust
I've read about guys adding a quart of diesel to corn crap gas to help with vapor lock. I haven't tried it yet, but always thought it was a good idea, and should also help the gas tank to not rust. I just came across this on another car site:
"I run a testing laboratory at an oil refinery. Gasoline composition varies quite a bit from season to season ( Thank you EPA). During the summer months the gasoline formulation tends to have more of the "light ends" which lowers the initial boiling point. This is primarily from the addition of butane. Butane is cheap and boosts octane so refiners add as much as they can during the EPA defined season. Gasoline is not like water. Water is a pure substance that always boils @ 212 F ( at standard temperature and pressure). Gasoline is a mixture and it boils off 1 component at a time. During the summer you will find that it starts to boil around ambient temperature and as low as 70 F. It continues to boil off the lighter components until they are gone. So if you distill gasoline it starts to boil at very low temperatures and continues to boil until the heaviest components boil at about 437 F. Adding diesel to the tank will not affect the IBP ( initial boiling point). It only serves raise the final boiling point (FBP). Raising the FPB ends up leaving a residue which coats the surfaces and helps protect from rust, etc. Pressuring your gas tank effectively raises the IBP so that your gas does not boil in the tank. The higher the pressure, the higher the IBP. If your tank is not pressurized then your only solution is to isolate and insulate." |
06-15-2015, 09:55 AM | #2 |
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Re: Adding Diesel to Gas Helps Fight Rust
Here in Germany we have no choice. We have to use gasoline with at least 5 % of ethanol. Many owners of vintage cars use smokeless two-stroke-engine-oil 1:100 (API-TC, JASO-FC). An old mechanic told me that this kind of oil prevents the gas tank from rusting, is a benefit for the Model A valve train and protects all kind of gaskets in the fuel system. I use it regularly. The plugs aren't fouled and the exhaust doesn't smell like a two-stroke-engine.
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06-15-2015, 10:50 AM | #3 | |
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Re: Adding Diesel to Gas Helps Fight Rust
Quote:
There are other factors that regulate the vapor pressure of gasoline also. |
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06-15-2015, 11:32 AM | #4 | |
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Re: Adding Diesel to Gas Helps Fight Rust
Quote:
Go ahead and try it and report back the results. The worst that could happen is you have to drain your tank and throw out a whole tank of contaminated gas. Another consideration is the properties of gasoline vs diesel. Gasoline is blended so that it does not ignite by compression. It ignites by spark. Diesel is blended so it ignites easily by compression. You don't have enough compression in a Model A, 4.2:1 to ignite diesel by compression which is 20:1+. This is IHO based on working 31 years as a chemical engineer in an XOM refinery. I was never asked my opinion as to whether blending diesel in gasoline was a good idea as the maximum endpoint(EP) spec for gasoline is 437F and diesel EP is 650F. Obvious isn't it? |
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06-15-2015, 11:52 AM | #5 |
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Re: Adding Diesel to Gas Helps Fight Rust
I always add about 4 ounces of Marvel Mystery oil to a fill up. I learned that back in the 70's, and I have been doing that since, but only to older, non emission controlled and only to the seldom used antiques.
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06-15-2015, 12:33 PM | #6 | |
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Re: Adding Diesel to Gas Helps Fight Rust
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06-15-2015, 12:45 PM | #7 |
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Re: Adding Diesel to Gas Helps Fight Rust
Me the same, I add some twostroke oil to the German "crap-gas" with at least 5% ethanol or I fill my car with AVGAS 100LL from my airport. Especially during the winter time the hygroscopic ethanol can separate some water, which will cause rost in the tank.
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06-15-2015, 12:47 PM | #8 |
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Re: Adding Diesel to Gas Helps Fight Rust
i would never subscribe to adding diesel as a supplement to any cars fuel system old or new
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06-15-2015, 12:51 PM | #9 | |
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Re: Adding Diesel to Gas Helps Fight Rust
Quote:
When changing specs from winter to summer gas it is a lot more than just adding and/or removing butane. Many different areas of the refinery have to change their way of operation. For example in our plant in order to change the VP we have to run the distillation column hotter to meet specs and run samples through out the day to ensure we are not "Off Test". And this is just one piece. End of rant. |
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06-15-2015, 01:46 PM | #10 |
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Re: Adding Diesel to Gas Helps Fight Rust
Maybe the solution is to cool the zenith... Not an easy trick.
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-Mike Late 31' Ford Model A Tudor, Miss Daisy I don't work on cars --I'm learning about my Model A. Cleveland, Ohio |
06-15-2015, 03:09 PM | #11 | |
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Re: Adding Diesel to Gas Helps Fight Rust
Quote:
You are just the man that may be able to answer a gas problem/question that came to me at 7000' very recently. My '04 injected 500 cu in truck engine light came on, after filling up with some crap gas in Bishop, Ca. A buddy , who owned a repair shop, advised me ,to put some Chevron..'Techron' into the gas tank. Wow, within several miles, the engine light went out and the 'light' in my head came on ...regarding my Model A/B engines. What good or harm could come from adding Techron additive (fuel system cleaner) to my Model A gas tank. Appreciate any thoughts that you have regarding this question. |
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06-15-2015, 03:22 PM | #12 |
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Re: Adding Diesel to Gas Helps Fight Rust
Really nothing, it has a strong detergent additive, it will clean the carb, valves etc.
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06-15-2015, 04:27 PM | #13 |
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Re: Adding Diesel to Gas Helps Fight Rust
I've heard the diesel thing since I was young, I don't think I've tried it. But, I do tend to add motor oil most of the time. I'll add a qt of cheap or old stuff I always seem to have hanging around. The old wives tale is that it keeps the carbon soft and helps with tank rust. This may be one of those tales that I believe, at least it doesn't hurt. Doesn't smoke either.
When it comes to mixing diesel and gasoline I do it the other way around. I'll add a little gas to diesel in really cold weather to a diesel that is a hard starter. |
06-15-2015, 04:55 PM | #14 |
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Re: Adding Diesel to Gas Helps Fight Rust
MMO does about the same... since it is a Very light oil it works as a detergent and also when fuel evaporates in your carb the oil tends to stay behind and helps prevent varnish build up. Never saw much use for it as an oil additive but have used it for years in boats and old cars and small seldom used engines.
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06-15-2015, 05:04 PM | #15 | |
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Re: Adding Diesel to Gas Helps Fight Rust
Quote:
Don't bet that you actually get Chevron gas at a Chevron gas station either. You are 9 times out of 10 getting gasoline from the nearest refinery. The Oils do this to save shipping costs, that is trading out with competitors to save excessive shipping costs. Gasoline is a commodity with little to no difference between brands. Me I fill up at XOM stations since I get a 10% discount being a retiree. |
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06-15-2015, 05:08 PM | #16 |
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Re: Adding Diesel to Gas Helps Fight Rust
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06-15-2015, 05:23 PM | #17 |
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Re: Adding Diesel to Gas Helps Fight Rust
There is a bill in Congress introduced by Bob Goodlette, R-Va., to overturn the Renewable Fuel Standard laws; i.e., ethanol. Any positive environmental benefit from ethanol is questionable; the profits reaped by large farmers and mega-agri corporations are not. Iowa is a primary producer of corn. It's also home of the first Presidential caucus. Politicians have to pander to Iowa to win votes and one of the main ways is to support the RFS. It all boils down to politics and money. How unusual.
Write your congressman supporting Goodlette's bill to overturn the RFS. I have. The whole country is paying in increased gas prices, repairs, and grocery costs to benefit a greedy few. |
06-15-2015, 05:45 PM | #18 | |
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Re: Adding Diesel to Gas Helps Fight Rust
Quote:
I've written years ago, wouldn't hurt again I guess. Do you know how hard it is to try and convince some folks about the higher prices in the grocery stores and the non-good effects of this fuel. But then when one watches Jay Walking or Watters World, etc. it makes sense. |
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06-15-2015, 06:47 PM | #19 |
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Re: Adding Diesel to Gas Helps Fight Rust
MMO and Seafoam seem to help. A lot.
Yet to try Startron they say it is the better of the two between it and Sta-Bil. Sta-bil 360 expensive stuff, 20 bucks a pop at Advance Auto Parts Last edited by BlueSunoco; 06-16-2015 at 10:01 AM. |
06-15-2015, 07:29 PM | #20 |
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Re: Adding Diesel to Gas Helps Fight Rust
Seems one only needs a clear 5 gal bucket.. to get the Ethanol out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfZgDkRwAUk
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06-16-2015, 05:36 AM | #21 |
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Re: Adding Diesel to Gas Helps Fight Rust
Sta-bil 360 is a marine stabilizer advertised to protect the entire fuel system from corrosion in addition to preserving the fuel for 12 months.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2S-IdT5Uxq0 |
06-16-2015, 10:34 AM | #22 |
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Re: Adding Diesel to Gas Helps Fight Rust
SHELL and BP are top tier fuels accrording to GM. Supposedly, ALL fuel is the same when it leaves the refinery and the distributors (Shell, BP, Chevron, etc) additive package is added at the tank farm before the tanker truck delivers it to the gas station. There is a thing called "Ball Gas" that no brand gas stations sell. Ball gas is the fuel that is in the gas pipes that crisscross the counrty that deliver fuel to tank farms, when differant grades of fuel are sent, a ball is placed in the pipe to seperate them, the bal gass is the mixture of the 2.
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06-16-2015, 11:29 AM | #23 |
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Re: Adding Diesel to Gas Helps Fight Rust
We do not have Shell here in NY. My trucks have a tendency toward carbon in the throttle body which causes a slight hesitation. What I've found is that rather than clean it I now just wait till we get to Florida in the winter and within 2 or 3 tanks of Shell the carbon ring is gone.
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06-16-2015, 12:13 PM | #24 |
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Re: Adding Diesel to Gas Helps Fight Rust
When I hauled fuel I remember six different flavor trucks lined up at the rack to fill.BP,Mobil,Shell,all loaded out of the same pipe.I worked for a guy that was a sub for a petro hauler.I would go to the tank farm,load up,and drop the loaded trailer at the haulers yard.His drivers would get under it and deliver it to the stations.Until the driver got his paperwork he would not know what brand station he was delivering to.
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06-16-2015, 04:46 PM | #25 | |
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Re: Adding Diesel to Gas Helps Fight Rust
Quote:
I recently used this in my gas and not just in my oil and was surprised at the difference. It was an old 78 Ford pickup with a little lifter noise. It started running perfectly. I have tried Sea Foam and it did help, but Marvel Mystery oil might help the rust problem in the tank and sure won't hurt the engine. |
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06-16-2015, 04:50 PM | #26 | |
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Re: Adding Diesel to Gas Helps Fight Rust
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06-20-2015, 04:40 AM | #27 |
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Re: Adding Diesel to Gas Helps Fight Rust
The problem with adding Diesel is it lowers the Octane rating . With the quality of gas we get now that might not be a great thing. Even though the worst gas today is probably better than the best octane rating in the day adding diesel does increase the chance of reaching the ping range particulary if we have raised the compresion with an aftermarket head as many have done -Karl
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06-20-2015, 08:50 AM | #28 |
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Re: Adding Diesel to Gas Helps Fight Rust
I suspect most Model A's would run fine on 100% unleaded gasoline.. I think there are few threads here where folks buy it and have not had issues.
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