newbee - 36 Pickup radiator mod question

[david.skinner]

Hello, Dave from Wellington NZ. My wife has just bought a 36 Pickup to replace her SL500. I'm quite thrilled with it. Paint, woodwork, upholstery is very good. Mechanically, my first impression is tidy but not at the standard I would like. While my wife is a car girl, I am a motorcycle fan and have strip restored a number of Japanese race oriented motorcycles, mainly 80s & 90s but quite hi tech so the Pickup is new ground for me and I would like some guidance.

On a bit of a side note, I am having trouble identifying the motor. It has 24 stud heads with centre cooling outlets. One head clearly shows made in Canada so to me maybe a C69A but the other head appears to have C81T-6050 stamped in it but its a bit hard to tell. - advice appreciated.

Anyway my first question is that it has been leaking coolant - actually I think it may have been overflowing coolant rather than an actual leak. I had to put 7Litres (~7 Quarts for my US friends) in it yesterday which was a bit frightening but I don't know how much was in it when we got it before we drove it and it has been out on the highway. I then left the radiator cap off and ran the engine for around 1/2 hr. I could see no leaks and the LH head measured 160F while the RH head measured 180F using my IR thermometer (usually used for setting bike tyre pressures on racetracks). All nicely stable.

My first thought after reading many threads is to pressurise the cooling system gently and use the well mentioned Skip's 3lb overflow hose relief valve and see how that goes in terms of coolant from now on. However I can't find the appropriate threads to find Skip or for what needs to be done to the cap and its socket to allow it to be pressurised.

So in short:
1. Am I doing the right thing at this stage of ownership?
2. if so, could you point me in the right direction.

regards
David.

[texas webb]

Welcome to Fordbarn David.If those temps are correct that's good.What is the radiator cap pressure rating?4lbs is all that's needed.For Skip....
wwwfordcollector.com.Wife is a smart lady.

[david.skinner]

Many thanks. The radiator cap does not appear to be a pressure cap - i.e no spring and internal seal.

[kiwitony]

It won't be a pressure cap if it's still the original radiator. The water will spew out untill it finds the right level usually about an inch from the top,don't overfill, once you get use to the car you will get to know the level. As to engine I.D there may be a number on the block just above the water pump or on top of the bell housing if you can see there. What fan do you have? generator mounted or one driven of the front crankshaft pully up to a fan mounted onto the inlet manifold where the generator bolts on. early motors a pencil will sit on a lip on the block were the timing cover bolts on just below the big generator mounting stud. Temps are fine. We all love pictures on here and welcome to another kiwi. Cheers Tony.

[Scott H in Wheaton]

David,
Don't go looking for trouble! Your radiator is fine the way it is operating, no need to start playing with it.
Congrats on having such a cool wife and getting a '36 pickup in your life.

[Kurt in NJ]

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Drain down the coolant enough to see the tops of the tubes-- look to see if the tubes are clogged, it could be many are clogged, the 36 I have 1/2 of the ones I could see we're clogged

[G.M.]

Originally Posted by david.skinner

Many thanks. The radiator cap does not appear to be a pressure cap - i.e no spring and internal seal.

If the over flow tube comes out from the radiator filler neck you can use a pressure cap as long as there is a washer like seat down at the bottom. If the over flow tube comes off the top of the radiator you need Skips 4 lb valve. To install you slip a short rubber hose on the bottom end of the over flow tube. With the pressure cap or valve fill the coolant up into the filler neck more coolant and more flow equals better cooling. The coolant needs to be forced through the 144 radiator tubes. Due to the number and length of the tubes they become a restriction which causes the water to back out the over flow. With the valve you need to replace the rubber seal in the cap or the cap will leak. One picture shows the 4 lb valve installation and the other shows my 39 which had the over flow from the top of the tank. The filler neck had the bottom washer like seat and I soldered an over flow tube in the neck. and soldered the tube at the top of the tank shut. Be careful the new tube don't hit the pressure cap. Most old Ford pressure caps don't hit good down on the bottom. As shown in the second picture I added the rubber washer. If it don't seat and seal at the bottom it's only a regular radiator cap, not a pressure cap. Don't get the rubber to thick or it will raise the release pressure making it an 8 lb or higher cap. G.M.

I would like to add, take notice of how clean and shiny the radiator tubes are in the 39. This wasn't like this 30 years ago. I didn't have the radiator cleaned but 15 years ago installed Skips high flow turbine impeller pumps and a large bottle of Barr's heavy duty stop leak. This was the type with aluminum flakes in it. The combination of double the water flowing through the radiator tubes and the flakes polished the tubes as far down in them as I can see. I showed my radiator guy and he said he never saw anything like it.

[david.skinner]

Thanks everyone - The coolant issue seems to have stabilised so I can work quietly on that in the background but no further sign of overheating. Some photos attached (if I can work out how.) Tony - there does appear to be a ledge about 1cm wide below the generator. The fan is generator mounted and appears to be new. I cant find any stamps below the (2?) water pumps but there is an upside down 87 ? on the RHS just in front of where the rh head is. All advice appreciated. Also thank you very much for the warm welcome.

[Snouts out]

It has a car front end.Is that the way they were made down there ? I like it.

[Mike P]

That's a beaut! It looks very different than my '36 for sure! Are the doors homemade?

[FlatheadTed]

Nice Pick up .This appears to be a colonial cab pick up ,factory built on a Roadster cowl and dash, with the car front it was a std product . Pressure Radiator cap ,I saw one recently that fitted on a 37 neck with no seat needed ,not sure who makes them ,4 1lb .Ted

[Snouts out]

The engine is a 24 stud,not original.What's the distribter look like(dizzy)?

[david.skinner]

Distributor is flat (crab?) but cant see any wiring loom off it.

[blucar]

looking at the pix you attached, I note that the generator/fan appears to be typical of a gen/fan combo that was used trough '39. If the generator is a two brush unit with a regulator, then it is a '39. Generators prior to '39 are three brush with a "shunt/cut-out", generally sitting on top of the generator.
I also noted that the exhaust manifold is not the '35-36 "log" type.
In time you are probably going to find the the engine originally was either a commercial engine, i.e. truck or a stationary unit of some kind.
The loss of coolant is very common in the pre-pressurized systems. One way to stop the loss of coolant is to leave the coolant level down about 1" below the filler neck. If you can find a pressure cap of about 4lb's that will fit the radiator neck, then you can add an overflow tank "coolant recovery", attached to the overflow tube, which will capture the expanded coolant and return same to the radiator when the system cools down. The coolant recovery tank will also eliminate air entrainment in the cooling system and thereby make the system more efficient.
Neat looking truck.. The application of car front ends on '36 Ford pickups has become quite common here in the states with the Street Rod types. The cab on your truck is very unusual..
Does the truck have hydraulic brakes?

[Mike in AZ]

welcome to the "Barn....great looking truck...definitely different from '36 pickup here....got more pics??....lol...great buy by your wife....Mike

[blucar]

David S.. Carefully reviewing the pix of the engine compartment I noted what appears to be a "COPPER" fuel line from the pump to the carb. Copper fuel and/or brake lines are not a good idea, the copper will break from fatigue, where-as steel will not.
It would appear that the rear fenders on the truck could possibly be '36 Ford passenger car, modified to fit the slab sided bed.

[david.skinner]

Thank you Bill - I will replace it. its ugly as well. What do most people use? flexible fuel line (which I have plenty of) or a formed steel line which I could get made? Also do you know if there are any problems running the line down the carb stalk and along the top of the engine to the (electric) fuel pump and regulator. e.g. vapour lock problems.

[Talkwrench]

Its usually hard line everywhere just the jump from the firewall to the fuel pump [or where it should be]. Try to keep it as high as practical to close to the motor and you will have problems. Oz and NZ don't seem to have the vapour lock problems. SO where is your electric pump mounted?

Also if your cooling system is ok [ looks like you may have a modern core in there] you will not need to pressurise anything, in a tank your size it will just sit about 3/4" from the top. Your in the land of the long white cloud not the Gibson desert you should be ok..

[Jeff/Illinois]

Sharp truck David!! Long live the '36 Ford pickup!! Love it!!

[Graeme / New Zealand]

David I have copper fuel line on my car and it is fine, there has been a lot of debate over the years on the rights and wrongs of this stuff on this and the old Fordbarn. I would not change it for the sake of it but make sure you have a flexible hose between the fuel pump and where it passes the clamp on the firewall. Nice truck by the way . Perhaps I'll see it around as I'm in Lower Hutt

I had a problem with my radiator frothing away. I tipped some of that radiator cleaner in the system, ran it for a while then flushed it. You should of seen all the crap that came out.

GB

[G.M.]

Originally Posted by Graeme / New Zealand

David I have copper fuel line on my car and it is fine, there has been a lot of debate over the years on the rights and wrongs of this stuff on this and the old Fordbarn. I would not change it for the sake of it but make sure you have a flexible hose between the fuel pump and where it passes the clamp on the firewall. Nice truck by the way . Perhaps I'll see it around as I'm in Lower Hutt

I had a problem with my radiator frothing away. I tipped some of that radiator cleaner in the system, ran it for a while then flushed it. You should of seen all the crap that came out.

GB

I second this. G.M.

[blucar]

Lets re-phrase the question of copper fuel/hydraulic lines vs steel lines..
If copper was better for automotive use, the factory would specify and/or use it. It only takes one broken fuel line to totally ruin an afternoon and/or vehicle.
If you don't have the means to make new steel lines, have someone make one for you.
A good example of how the lines should be ran is to look at a modern vehicle, the fuel lines will be located away from the block, with a short rubber/braided hose between the chassis lines and the engine.

[Scott H in Wheaton]

Are we forgetting about copper jacketed steel tubing?
Sometimes what looks like copper on the outside could be steel inside.

[kiwitony]

Cool truck I looked at it at the beach hop.My mate nearly bought it but his wife said no as they are building a new house. Cheers tony.

[G.M.]

Copper work hardens and cracks after a LONG time movement of a short area. On a typical old Ford there should be no unsupported section that would be subject to movement. The only place this occurs is from the firewall to the fuel pump. This is the job of the hose to take the movement out of the solid fuel line. I'm not promoting copper line and have some on a few of my old Fords but it's not a problem. If steel is available for the main fuel line that is best. From the pump to the carb, the proper length has no flex motion. G.M.

[SofaKing]

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Originally Posted by Scott H in Wheaton

Are we forgetting about copper jacketed steel tubing?
Sometimes what looks like copper on the outside could be steel inside.

x2- check with magnet.

[david.skinner]

Good idea on the magnet. thanks for this.

So draining the cooling system is not as easy as it sounds. Getting the lower radiator hoses off is non trivial. There does appear to be brass plugs under the water pumps but they have very little clearance from the front axle/strut thingy and are difficult to get to. I'm keen to be able to change the coolant every couple of years without major engineering. Thoughts?

Graeme - looking forward to meeting - will likely be at the rod show in the Hutt tomorrow. D,

[Phil Gillespie]

Maybe you could think about joining EFV8 club Wellington area. There is always a wealth of knowledge and info to be used from some very helpful flathead owners.
Phil
NZ

[Graeme / New Zealand]

Originally Posted by david.skinner

Good idea on the magnet. thanks for this.

So draining the cooling system is not as easy as it sounds. Getting the lower radiator hoses off is non trivial. There does appear to be brass plugs under the water pumps but they have very little clearance from the front axle/strut thingy and are difficult to get to. I'm keen to be able to change the coolant every couple of years without major engineering. Thoughts?

Graeme - looking forward to meeting - will likely be at the rod show in the Hutt tomorrow. D,

Yes I'm looking at going there. I won't have my car as I'm still in the process of getting it complied. I find the best way to get the bottom hose off is to undo both clips and wiggle the hose like hell, eventually you will get it to a position when you can move one end off either the pump or the rad. Easy trick for putting them back on is to boil the jug and to pour the water into an ice cream container and soak the hoses for a few minutes, this makes them easier to bend so you can get the ends back on.

GB

[Talkwrench]

If you want to do the coolant change and make sure your cooling is tip top. Pull the radiator ( not a real fun job) then get it rodded out while there have them install two drain cocks near the inlets. From what I see you have a modern core if not and something is wrong your up for $$$. Time to install two new water pumps, drakes or skips you choose, or you can go through yours. Install with stainless bolts. Also I have fitted those cone shaped filters that will trap a fair bit of crap in the top of the radiator hoses. When it comes to flushing you can simply take out your thermostats bolt up again stick a hose in the top open the drain cocks and flush through. When cool drain again blow out as much with a compressor , reinstall thermostats , drain cocks, clean out the cone filters fill up with distilled water and I prefer a non glycol type coolant. Bobs your aunty!

[ford38v8]

David, Coming in here late, but have read all the previous advice and have a bit of my own. I would avoid pulling the radiator unless really needed, as the whole front assembly is based on the radiator, therefore you'll have a fun time getting it all lined up again.

If you'd like a little easier method of remove/replace the bottom radiator hoses or to simply flush properly, use a floor eack with a wood block under the front of the engine pan, and release the front motor mounts. With clamps off the hoses, a gentle lift will offset enough to get them off and on again easily. Watch for clearance at the firewall to engine, don't lift too high.

If you do need to remove the radiator, yes, a drain cock can easily be installed on the bottom of the tank, if you first identify an accessible location once installed again. One final note on pressurizing your radiator: The early radiators were not engineered to withstand pressure at the seams, so limit the pressure to 4 lbs max. Also, the wide flat expanse of the top panel of the top tank on the '36 will buckle and oil-can under pressure, that being another limitation on pressure. If the tank is removed for work, an inner brace for that top tank may be fabricated and soldered internally to prevent the oil-can effect.

Very unusual truck, wish it was mine!

[Brendan]

that is a Bad ass pickup!

[david.skinner]

Just to continue this thread - the run on the motorway for an hour each way went well but we lost quite a bit of coolant so I think it is time to pull the radiator out and get some work done on it. Will go for the stuff required to pressurise the system to 4lb with the overflow valve. Will clean and replace the pumps etc. I'm tempted to consider an electric fan instead of the extremely noisy fan on it at the moment which I believe is not an original. Any thoughts?

[Phil Gillespie]

The blockage of the radiator can cause coolant loss. i experienced this on 34 coupe.
Removed radiator, top tank off. was 40% blocked. Rodded out and cleared.
Back in use with thermosats and works well with stock water pumps and fan as mounted on generator. No overheating. Stick with stock set up and ensure your radiator is not blocked. These systems when clean and free flowing don not require additional electric fans normally, especially here in NZ. i went over Arthurs Pass to West Coast and back and nil cooling loss or overheating using a non pressurised cap.
Once system finds its own level allowing for expansion all should be good.
Best of luck.
Phil NZ

[Talkwrench]

Electric fan will work fine even better with a shroud, once you get your radiator rodded and all else fine it will hardly ever come on.. Maybe never in NZ! I have to use a cover over mine half the time...

[david.skinner]

Just to close this thread off - I have had the radiator rodded, fitted new pumps and engine mounts while I was at it. replaced the lower hoses with silicon ones, removed the alternator mounted fan, fitted an electric fan, thermostat and wiring and it runs perfectly. Even without pressurising it there is no more coolant loss on the motorway at about 50mph. So apart from having to do more work to line up the bodywork and keeping my eye out for some better fan mount brackets this job is complete. Many thanks for all the advice - very much appreciated - now for a new thread on checking the state of the engine.

[40frank]

I love that 36

[adileo]

Very very nice lookin truck - good luck and enjoy!