1/2 Bell Starter Plate

[HCO41]

I'm thinking of building a flathead engine test stand. I'm going to use the 1/2 Bell so rear mounting will be the same for all engines.
My question: Since the starter plates are interchangeable between the cast iron bell used on the '48-'52 trucks and the stamped unit used on the '49-E'51 Mercury cars, what is the difference, (aside from the oil pan brackets), between the "indented (truck) and "flat" (Merc.) starter plate applications? Are the starters and/or flywheels different? Thanks,
Howard

[4tford]

This should explain it all.

http://www.flatheadv8.org/bellhousing.pdf

[51504bat]

Starters are all the same. You can't use an 11 inch clutch with the stamped steel Merc housing you have to use the cast truck housing

[Binx]

If the bell is a fixed point to bolt the engine to, you'll soon hate twisting and adjusting alignment to bolt it up. You may later get a 59A motor and have to start all over.

Lonnie

[42merc]

The starter plate for the cast bell is indented somewhat.
The starter plate for the stamped steel bell is flat.
Either plate will work with the "Long" style Ford clutch & flywheel.
The flat plate MUST be used with the "Borg & Beck" Mercury clutch & flywheel. The indented plate rubs on the Mercury flywheel. Makes lots of noise when running.
Starters are the same for both.

[V8 Bob]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Originally Posted by HCO41

I'm thinking of building a flathead engine test stand. I'm going to use the 1/2 Bell so rear mounting will be the same for all engines.
My question: Since the starter plates are interchangeable between the cast iron bell used on the '48-'52 trucks and the stamped unit used on the '49-E'51 Mercury cars, what is the difference, (aside from the oil pan brackets), between the "indented (truck) and "flat" (Merc.) starter plate applications? Are the starters and/or flywheels different? Thanks,
Howard

The indentation on the HD truck starter plate allows room for a special alloy dust seal. The '48-'53 truck/'49-'53 car starters and flywheels are the same except for clutch/pressure plate bolt pattern differences.

Originally Posted by 42merc

The starter plate for the cast bell is indented somewhat.
The starter plate for the stamped steel bell is flat.
Either plate will work with the "Long" style Ford clutch & flywheel.
The flat plate MUST be used with the "Borg & Beck" Mercury clutch & flywheel. The indented plate rubs on the Mercury flywheel. Makes lots of noise when running.
Starters are the same for both.

The 8BA/8RT/8CM '48-'53 flywheels are all dimensionally all the same, and the starter plates locate between the flywheel and oil pan, so how would clutch design (B&B vs Long) create interference with the starter plate?

[HCO41]

Thanks to all.
4tford, I have the referenced file printed in a binder along with the information contained in the "?s" and "page" icons. I needed more info. re; starter motor and flywheel.
Bink, my intention was to attach 1/2 bell to 8ba blocks and mount 59 blocks as is, that way the rear attachment would be the same. With the engine out of the vehicle I could r&r the 1/2 bell with an impact wrench if engine is going into vehicle with 4 bolt transmission.
42merc, your information is exactly what I wanted. Looks like the cast bell and flat plate will cover all I need for this application.
Howard

[HCO41]

Hey V8Bob, your post came in as I was typing my post #7. Do you agree with my assumption for a test stand application?
Howard

[V8 Bob]

Originally Posted by HCO41

Hey V8Bob, your post came in as I was typing my post #7. Do you agree with my assumption for a test stand application?
Howard

Your test stand idea is very similar to mine. I'm using a cast truck 1/2 bell and indented plate for the rear of 8BAs, along with a '53 truck front center mount. The '53 front mount allows any water pump configuration. Testing an earlier engine just requires removing the 1/2 bell and bolting the integral bell directly to the test stand rear mount.
.

[Kurt in NJ]

Originally Posted by 51504bat

Starters are all the same. You can't use an 11 inch clutch with the stamped steel Merc housing you have to use the cast truck housing

When I did this I didn't know it couldn't be done, I used the 11" 59AB flywheel/clutch with the stamped Merc bell, I did have to modify the starter drive to get full tooth contact

[HCO41]

Thanks Bob, I didn't know about the '53 truck mount. I'm heading for Rhinebeck next weekend and will be looking for a cast 1/2 bell and a starter plate. I'll look up the '53 truck front mount to see what it looks like and see if I can find one of those too.
Howard

[V8 Bob]

Originally Posted by HCO41

Thanks Bob, I didn't know about the '53 truck mount. I'm heading for Rhinebeck next weekend and will be looking for a cast 1/2 bell and a starter plate. I'll look up the '53 truck front mount to see what it looks like and see if I can find one of those too.
Howard

This is what the '53 truck front mount looks like. It bolts to the 4 bosses next to the crank on all flatheads.

[HCO41]

Thanks Bob, I printed out the picture and will take it with me.
Howard

[Ol' Ron]

Howard
You realize I'm against run stands, their very destructive to new engines. Just throw it on an old tire and fire it up, if it has good oil pressure, toss it in the car/truck and drive the s**t out of it.
Ol' Ron

[HCO41]

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

Howard
You realize I'm against run stands, their very destructive to new engines. Just throw it on an old tire and fire it up, if it has good oil pressure, toss it in the car/truck and drive the s**t out of it.
Ol' Ron

I know my friend, I know. The first phase of this project is to provide a rolling dolly to store an engine on, but it will be constructed to provide for adding a switch/gauge panel and extended out the front for a radiator. I'm still planning on getting down there for lunch when I get back from Rhinebeck and help Molly clean up the yard. I'll let you know.
Howard

[Walt Dupont--Me.]

You mention flywheel on the first post. Just make sure you use a 8BA wheel on the 8BA style engine and the earlier wheel on the earlier engine. If you mix the wheels up the starter drive won't engage the ring gear wright. Walt

[Ol' Ron]

Yes, Listen to Walt and don't run it very long.

[Step-down]

And the reason for not letting the motor run for a long period on a test stand is because there isn't any load on the motor on break in. Is this true just for flatheads ? or in general .

[HCO41]

Originally Posted by V8 Bob

Your test stand idea is very similar to mine. I'm using a cast truck 1/2 bell and indented plate for the rear of 8BAs, along with a '53 truck front center mount. The '53 front mount allows any water pump configuration. Testing an earlier engine just requires removing the 1/2 bell and bolting the integral bell directly to the test stand rear mount.
.

Bob, (Others?), I was going to send a PM, but I thought others may be interested. Was the front truck mount you used only used for '53 V8 trucks or is there a range of years. I thought I could look in my chassis parts manual, but it only covers the cars.
Thanks again,
Howard

[V8COOPMAN]

I don't know the answer for sure, but since '53 was the last year for the flathead (USA), and those bolt holes match the flatty, probably a one-year-only piece. DD

[HCO41]

Thanks coopman. You're probably right. I'll look around at Rhinebeck next weekend but I'm thinking I could easily make one if the mount turns out to be that rare.
Howard

[HCO41]

Thanks to all. One more request: Would someone look up the part number for the '53 truck front engine support V8Bob posted (#12) above? I want to check a couple of NOS sellers and they only stock by part number.
Thanks,
Howard

[V8 Bob]

Originally Posted by HCO41

....Was the front truck mount you used only used for '53 V8 trucks or is there a range of years....

Ford brought out the center front/straddle-mounted-bell rear system in '53 for the new F-series (and later) trucks, so it's a one-year-only flathead part.

[HCO41]

Thanks Bob, Does anyone have the part number?
Howard