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#1 |
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Two years ago my 28 A developed a heavy knock when I depressed the clutch pedal. The knock was once per engine rev and disappeared when the pedal was released. I sought opinions from several auto mechanics (none with A experience) who all suggested I replace the clutch throw-out bearing.
This was done by pulling the rear axle, torque tube and transmission. The throw-out bearing was a little rough and was replaced. All other components were inspected and seemed in good condition. After everything was bolted up and the knock was still there when the car was started. Next the starter was pulled and inspected. The bushes appeared worn, the armature and brushes very worn and the bendix was falling to pieces. An identical rebuilt one was obtained and installed. The noise disappeared. Last week I installed new motor mounts all around. Before the work I started the car and moved it to give working room in the garage. No noise!. Yesterday I started it to take a test drive - THE NOISE IS BACK! Any suggestions other than a box of matches? |
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#2 |
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Not sure why a starter would be pulled for this complaint, but I guess it was a good thing if it was a mess.
Nonetheless, the starter is a red herring; it has nothing to do with the clutch being in or out. Pure coincidence that the starter work made the noise go away briefly. Too bad the pilot bearing in the flywheel wasn't changed out when the throwout bearing was done. Often you do them together. If it comes to that, be sure that the machined stub on the front of the tranny input shaft isn't worn; else it will never engage the pilot bearing properly if at all.
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#3 |
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Check for excess clearance in the thrust bearing.
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#4 |
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#5 |
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#7 |
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X4 end play
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#8 | |
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#9 |
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define engaged. If the bearing is worn or the stub, the two will only make marginal contact at their circumference, thus the input shaft can wobble, thus giving noise. think about it before hitting the caps. How about some constructive suggestions rather than waste a post
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#10 |
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Thank you all for your help. I should have said "when the clutch pedal is depressed" rather than " when the clutch is engaged".
Any thoughts why the noise was not present for two years? Thanks again Ian |
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#11 |
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I'd guess for the first two years the rear of the thrust bearing wasn't worn enough to be a problem. It might now be worn enough for the flywheel to move forward and hit something, like a starter bolt.
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#12 |
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I've seen this exact thing happen when starter bolts were too long.
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#13 |
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I agree with newshirt, Starter bolts to long plus maybe some excess in crankshaft end play.
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#14 |
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be careful the Derf meter reads zero
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#16 |
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Thanks again everyone, you have given lots of help, hopefully I can get back at it soon.
Ian |
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and my patience runs thin with dumb quotes
My apologies to 'tbirdtbird' for my rough response but his attempt at jocularity was posted very shortly after receipt of some bad news of a personal nature. I will attempt to reign in my bad temper in future. Last edited by ian Simpson; 05-26-2014 at 10:35 PM. |
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#18 |
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the entertainment inherent on this site is amazing!
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#19 |
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There is one more possibility. The flywheel ring gear might be moving towards the back of the engine. If the ring gear has been changed, as with a lot of reproduction parts they did not get it right. The ones that I have used have to big of a ID. This will make a noise when you push in the clutch if it is moving.
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#20 |
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Try this remove the starter,start the engine with the crank,watch that grip on the crank handle,any more noise?
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#21 |
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I'm going to say your ring gear has gotten cocked and is hitting and grinding on a spot in the bell housing. This will start to show up as a little knock and get worse. that's my story and i'm sticking to it. have fun modelAtony Lafayette, LA
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#22 |
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I'm with George,bet the starter ring is moving,mine does this about one time a year, I pull the starter and take a hammer and punch and drive it back ,it only has to move a little to start hitting!
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#23 | |
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The crankshaft does move when the clutch pedal is depressed. The starter bolts were of three differing lengths, one of which rubs on the ring gear when the clutch pedal is depressed. The ring gear can move on the flywheel. From this I surmise that: The first occurrence of the knock (two years ago) was caused by the worn thrust bearing allowing the flywheel to contact an oversize starter bolt. Changing the starter resulted in the bolts being moved to different positions and a shorter one replacing that which was striking the flywheel thus stopping the noise. The bendix on the new and stronger starter hammered on the back of the ring gear until it was striking the starter bolt boss inside the flywheel housing restarting the noise. Solutions: Short term - a big hammer knocked ring gear back into correct position, all starter bolts replaced with ones of correct length. Medium term - replace ring gear (and flywheel if necessary) Long term - rebuild motor with crankshaft endplay corrected. Thank you for all your help. PS. Tbirdtbird - what the heck is a derf meter? |
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#24 |
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If you remove the flywheel and pressure plate be sure to mark them so they can be replaced in the same location relative to the crankshaft.
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#25 |
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You might want to pin the the ring gear to the flywheel. The new starter Bendix will do it to a new ring gear again. The ring gears that I have installed are to big for the flywheel.
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#26 |
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George thanks for the suggestion about pinning. I was feeling really lazy and considering pinning by accessing through the starter hole, but sanity has prevailed and I will do it properly. |
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#27 | |
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Thanks |
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#28 | |
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I did mine through the starter hole. I used 1/8 dia. roll pins. Drilled on a angle at the edge of the ring gear into the flywheel. Made sure I went the same depth on each hole and spaced them even around the ring gear. So it would stay in balance. It would be best to do it with the engine out. But if you are real handy with a drill it can be done through the starter hole. Since then I use set screws on the ring gear when I install a new ring gear. |
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#29 |
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Thanks George! It sounds like it may be best to do this before balancing the flywheel. To pin it after it's been balanced and still in the car may upset the balance and lead to other ills. Sounds like the best method would be to remove the flywheel, pin the ring gear to it, rebalance everything and replace it in the car.... a bigger but better job.
Mike |
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#30 |
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I agree best to get it rebalanced.
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