When did full-blown Model A restoration begin?

[peters180a/170b]

One must go back and look at back issues of Model "A" News and the Restorer. I recall reading a 1931 Deluxe Tudor Phaeton using 99% N.O.S. parts was used [even the frame] to restore the car????? i would not consider a car restored using 99% n.o.s. parts but that's my opinion. Somewhere in the early 60's. i believe the car was done...

[400A-64]

I believe it started when two people argued as to what is factory correct and also when someone offered a trophy!!

[peters180a/170b]

400A-64 ...Finally someone with 400A and "NOT" A400 ....l.o.l The correct FACTORY FRAME Black , l.o.l.

[400A-64]

Peters.....But I do belong to the A400 Group???

[Special Coupe Frank]

"Those cars are a lot rarer than an A. And their owners have money and will spend it."

Not all non-Ford enthusiasts are independently wealthy...

Being an old Chrysler enthusiast, I know a lot of De Soto owners, for example, who aren't rolling in dough, but do the best they can within the limits of their skills and budget to fix-up and enjoy their cars.

Same goes for pre-War Chevies.

Yes, there ARE people out there with very deep pockets who also collect and restore the less-common cars, and many of their cars are stunning examples.

I think it takes pretty deep pockets to build a 400-point MARC or MAFCA Model A...


We should all be grateful that there is enough interest in early Fords to make replacement / reproduction parts readily available... Plymouth, and Willys-Overland folk aren't nearly so lucky...

[Phil]

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Originally Posted by peters180a/170b

One must go back and look at back issues of Model "A" News and the Restorer. I recall reading a 1931 Deluxe Tudor Phaeton using 99% N.O.S. parts was used [even the frame] to restore the car????? i would not consider a car restored using 99% n.o.s. parts but that's my opinion. Somewhere in the early 60's. i believe the car was done...

Really? What WOULD you call a Model A restored using 99% NOS parts??

[ursus]

Case in point as to the level of interest during the late 1950's: my father managed a Texaco station on a busy highway intersection. A collision between a Model A Tudor and a modern vehicle caused considerable injury to the elderly driver of the "A", but not so much to his car, which was driven onto the edge of the Texaco station and left. The family later informed my father that they had no further interest in the Tudor and that he could do with it as he desired. So, noting the 12K miles on the odometer and the near-pristine condition of the car he hung a "For Sale - $10" sign on it and parked it in plain view. He later recalled that the back seat looked as though nobody had ever sat in it. After 6 weeks of zero interest in the car he called the scrapyard, which dropped off a fellow who fired it up and drove it away.

In those days a Model A wasn't aparently regarded as worth the effort of restoration.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Special Coupe Frank

"Those cars are a lot rarer than an A. And their owners have money and will spend it."

Not all non-Ford enthusiasts are independently wealthy...

Being an old Chrysler enthusiast, I know a lot of De Soto owners, for example, who aren't rolling in dough, but do the best they can within the limits of their skills and budget to fix-up and enjoy their cars.

Same goes for pre-War Chevies.

Yes, there ARE people out there with very deep pockets who also collect and restore the less-common cars, and many of their cars are stunning examples.

I think it takes pretty deep pockets to build a 400-point MARC or MAFCA Model A...


We should all be grateful that there is enough interest in early Fords to make replacement / reproduction parts readily available... Plymouth, and Willys-Overland folk aren't nearly so lucky...

Very well said Frank.

.

[Aerocraft]

I "restored" my first Model A, a 1930 68B Cabriolet in 1952 when I was in high school. The car had been sitting outside with the top in tatters for many years and needed total wood replacement. It was a poor restoration but I was able to get it back on the road and drove it for several years as my only car. At the time, I received encouragement from guys who were really into the quality restoration of brass Model T's.

Gar Williams

[Charlville]

Just been reading about Russell Gerrits in the Floyd Clymer "How to Restore the Model A Ford" book from 1961. $5 including shipping to the UK Looks like he was the starting point for the judging standards?

[1930artdeco]

This may be a dumb question....If the car was being restored in the early to mid 50's and people say the knowledge is better now than then-how is that possible? I realize that memories fade over time, but the people who made, and bought cars new were still around. Were these people not restoring them or being asked? Or was the restoration crown so 'young' that they did not think to ask?

Mike

[Jeff/Illinois]

Originally Posted by Charlville

Just been reading about Russell Gerrits in the Floyd Clymer "How to Restore the Model A Ford" book from 1961. $5 including shipping to the UK Looks like he was the starting point for the judging standards?

Charlville, I saw that book years ago and it also seems that Russell Gerrits that you spoke of, won an award at a Model A meet in Dearborn in the 50's,,,,man was from Chicago, had a Dlx. Roadster. Wonder where the car (and Russell) are today? If his car is still making the circuits?

[Rowdy]

Interestingly enough the 1927 Dykes Automobile Encyclopedia mentions a restoration of sotrs for a Model T. The T was not even out of production at that point. I would guesse that restoring Model A's began in the mid to late 40's. Maybe slightly delayed by the war. Rod

[Terry,NJ]

In the mid fifties, I knew where there was a fully restored 1910 (I think) Stoddard-Dayton so someone was restoring cars then. Just not Model A Fords. But we had two AAs on the farm that were badly in need of just "Fixing", never mind restoration. In the mid fifties, I think that old Fords were just 4 banging clunkers and not worthy of a restoration. At least in Jersey, the later V8s were fine though, Just my often flawed memories of another time.
Terry

[CarlG]

It was not uncommon in the mid 50's to be able to buy a realy good low mile Model A for $25 - $50

With that in mind, it wouldn't prompt many to spend the time/money to "restore" one.

[Steve Wastler]

Originally Posted by phil

really? What would you call a model a restored using 99% nos parts??

new.....

[Wick]

Just maybe.......
One Day @ 1925 a boy about 16 got himself a model T.He drove it everywhere and could fix anything.He rebuilt the old T a couple of times over the years. As a young adult he could not afford a new model A ford when they came out. 1932 hes fixing cars for every one outside of town, one fellow who had a 28 ford went out and bought a New 1932 Ford with the v-8. He then drove out to the boys garage and threw him the keys to his old 28 and said go pick it up it's yours. The 28 had been used for hauling,towing,carryin hunting dogs,you name it. Well the young man took that A and pulled her all apart,cleaned,replaced,repainted everything right on down to the frame.
When he was done he had the nicest Model A in the state...looked and smelled like new! People would see the car and ask if that was a New model A that the dealer never sold?
So...picture small town USA back in the 30's could this story be true?
How many of us wanted something bad enough that we took something used and restored it? Happens all the time!
My vote would be in the 30's

[Hicktick]

I agree with Rowdy , when WW2 broke out you couldn't buy a new one .

I am sure there were people with money that had cars restored to almost new .

I would think if you had an A in 1941 you could have it made new with NOS parts for cheaper than a new car .

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by 1930artdeco

This may be a dumb question....If the car was being restored in the early to mid 50's and people say the knowledge is better now than then-how is that possible? I realize that memories fade over time, but the people who made, and bought cars new were still around. Were these people not restoring them or being asked? Or was the restoration crown so 'young' that they did not think to ask?

Mike

Mike I am going to offer my opinion on this. My father started "restoring" Model-A's back in the late 1950s. Opinions back then towards restoration was mostly that. There was nothing "factual" back then for my father to restore to, so he did the best with what little information was out there. Others were in the same situation. Therefore cars were restored as they were believed to be originally assembled. This is why the clubs were so valuable since they provided a venue to share information

Documentation is what it takes to be factual, ...not necessarily someone's opinion or their memories. I don't think most folks truly realize the tremendous amount of hours of research people like Marco, Vince, Doug Clayton, Pluck, Will, Gary Johnson and others here continue to do now, ...but folks also need to realize there were many others (maybe 75-100 people) along the way like George DeAngelis, Leslie Henry, Tim Johnstone, Doc, Roger Kaufman, and et/al that had a huge part in reading Engineering Releases, Foreman's logs, and sorting through many, many engineer's drawings, parts books, M-specs, and even original purchase orders determining what details were different, and documenting dates and revisions to put them in a factual order.

In addition to this, studying photographs like a "forensic police officer" looking for clues on assembly, tools, and methods has allowed us to know more about the Model-A now than what was know back then. THAT is why we know much more now than back then.


Something else to ponder. While I would need to count the number of people listed in the preface of the Judging Stds., I suspect there would be at least 75 names there, and then there is easily another 25 people (such as Pluck, the Minners, etc.) who have researched things too but are not listed in the Stds). Let's just say there have been 100 people who have each spent just 100 hours diligently researching Model-A's. That alone is 10,000 hours of diligent research, ....and many key people have likely spent more than 1,000 hours of research. If there are 2080 work hours in a year, that ten thousand hours equates out to almost 5 years of work time alone. Imagine if your job for the next 5 years was Monday thru Friday each day of the week showing up at the Archives doing nothing more than researching and putting that information on paper!! Five years!!! As others have said before, there really isn't any other vehicle on this planet that has been researched and documented any more than what the Model-A has.

[Charlville]

I tried searching for him, no sign

Originally Posted by Jeff/Illinois

Charlville, I saw that book years ago and it also seems that Russell Gerrits that you spoke of, won an award at a Model A meet in Dearborn in the 50's,,,,man was from Chicago, had a Dlx. Roadster. Wonder where the car (and Russell) are today? If his car is still making the circuits?