Correct cowl lacing

[BadgerA]

Working on my cabriolet restoration and have come to the cowl lacing. The one I have from one of the "major" parts suppliers is too round and too high in my opinion. The hood sticks up to high and thus throws off the alignment of the hood and cowl belt moldings. I believe the original was more flat. I have tried to "encourage" the flatness of the new stuff with a mallet,,, but to no noticeable benefit. Can any one suggest a source and\or supplier of a more correct lacing material? Thanks.

[RHD]

Most suppliers have the same cowl lacing as you have. It can be described in just one word, "Horrible". Surely the suppliers could get their act together and supply the right stuff. There must be a tremendous demand worldwide for the right product. Luckily, I saved a set I purchased many years ago which is right. As you say, the new cowl lacing puts the hood at the wrong height and alignment.
Best of luck. Just try around. Start complaining in earnest and see what happens.

[2manycars]

A&L Parts Specialties in Canton, Connecticut has the correct lacing.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

I guess I don't understand the mindset sometimes. We seemingly complain that what is out there is incorrect yet one or two things always appear to happen. From my perspective very few folks are willing to step up and pay for authentically made items where it is financially feasible for a supplier to manufacture it correctly, ...and even fewer are willing to step up and put their own money on the table to have the more correct product manufactured! If you don't believe me, then how about someone reading this post to step-up and make the offer!!

One other thought..., have you truly considered how well you guys have it? What if you were restoring a late 20's/early 30's Chrysler product, --or maybe a Packard or Cadillac where any type of cowl lacing is not commercially available. What would you do then?? For the folks who choose to be "restorers", they set out and make it themselves or pay to have a run manufactured. Respectfully, I am of the the opinion that we should not be so critical about commercially available reproduction parts unless we are willing to be a solution to the problem.

.

[james heider]

Brent,

I agree with you 100%. I just got out of restoring and early Mercedes Benz because parts are hard to find and VERY expensive. I think it is great that so many people have stepped up to reproduce these parts for the Model A. Even if it isn't 100% exact it is better than having nothing.

[Tom Wesenberg]

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What if you take the lacing to a school or shop with a roller. Running the gasket through a roller should flatten it some. Most heating shops also have metal rollers.

[BadgerA]

Thanks for the tip. Talked with A&L this morning and ordered one of their last old production cowl lacing. Supposed to be "better" than the new stuff. Look forward to receiving it and comparing. Again, thanks for the tip.

[Dave27]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

I guess I don't understand the mindset sometimes. We seemingly complain that what is out there is incorrect yet one or two things always appear to happen. From my perspective very few folks are willing to step up and pay for authentically made items where it is financially feasible for a supplier to manufacture it correctly, ...and even fewer are willing to step up and put their own money on the table to have the more correct product manufactured! If you don't believe me, then how about someone reading this post to step-up and make the offer!!

One other thought..., have you truly considered how well you guys have it? What if you were restoring a late 20's/early 30's Chrysler product, --or maybe a Packard or Cadillac where any type of cowl lacing is not commercially available. What would you do then?? For the folks who choose to be "restorers", they set out and make it themselves or pay to have a run manufactured. Respectfully, I am of the the opinion that we should not be so critical about commercially available reproduction parts unless we are willing to be a solution to the problem.

.

I would like to answer that. (when financially feasable) I have allways been taught if your not going to do something right dont do it at all. Example: I just installed my new windshield in the frame the gasket supplied by a vendor was to thick wouldnt go. I then got some thinner stuff,it worked looked great but was a tad to thin and was alittle loose,it kept bugging me. So as much of a pain that it was I bought some more this time a tad thicker took it all back apart and did it right now I'm happy with it. On another note I also collect 1980's arcade games like Ms.Pacman et..I have 27 in my gameroom all restored. I noticed in that collector group when someone repro's something they post the idea and everyone picks it apart until its as purfect as you can get it,then it goes into production and I must say some of the repro's are some works of art and are spectacular. Sometimes members do take it on theirselves and the do a prepayment order to help fund the cost but they get a small break in the price. I just got something in the mail infact that I paid for 6 months ago.Anyway just some ideas,thoughts,and input.....Thanks...Dave

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Dave27

I would like to answer that. (when financially feasable) I have allways been taught if your not going to do something right dont do it at all. Example: I just installed my new windshield in the frame the gasket supplied by a vendor was to thick wouldnt go. I then got some thinner stuff,it worked looked great but was a tad to thin and was alittle loose,it kept bugging me. So as much of a pain that it was I bought some more this time a tad thicker took it all back apart and did it right now I'm happy with it. On another note I also collect 1980's arcade games like Ms.Pacman et..I have 27 in my gameroom all restored. I noticed in that collector group when someone repro's something they post the idea and everyone picks it apart until its as purfect as you can get it,then it goes into production and I must say some of the repro's are some works of art and are spectacular. Sometimes members do take it on theirselves and the do a prepayment order to help fund the cost but they get a small break in the price. I just got something in the mail infact that I paid for 6 months ago.Anyway just some ideas,thoughts,and input.....Thanks...Dave

Sadly Dave, people tend to speak with their wallet more often than with their mouth. I realize that in the "perfect world", your comment about doing it right or don't do it at all is textbook correct --HOWEVER, that ain't Real World!! Real World is that Model A hobbyists as a whole tend to buy the cheapest item available because they don't see the same values you & I do.

[Dave27]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Sadly Dave, people tend to speak with their wallet more often than with their mouth. I realize that in the "perfect world", your comment about doing it right or don't do it at all is textbook correct --HOWEVER, that ain't Real World!! Real World is that Model A hobbyists as a whole tend to buy the cheapest item available because they don't see the same values you & I do.

I am new to the group so I dont know everyone as well as you buuuut. Thats a pretty bold statement though grouping Model A people as a whole choose the cheapest method possible.But like I said I acnt respond due to I dont know everyone yet.

[Kevin in NJ]

The game room crowd can be pretty picky.

I had 30 pinball machines in my house at one time and was fixing games for some friends.

The difference is in how the parts are made. When you are talking about reproducing graphics such as you find on the arcade games you can quickly do changes. Often the parts are done on fast to change printers of some kind. The metal parts tend to be thin and simple to copy. In many cases people have located original tooling. You also have better ways of doing the electronics today. What was a large board is now done with a couple chips.

When copying the A parts you are talking significantly more expensive processes. One example is a fairly 'simple' lower rear panel for coupe roadster. The current part is not right. The top edge is straight across and it does not used the original bracing. To have the part made properly the initial tooling costs and production costs would drive the price into the several hundred dollar range per part. The dealer have troubles selling the part at $40.

The best thing to do is to give feedback to all the dealers about the parts. What works and what does not work. Give them facts and hope they can correct the problems. There is also a reasonable limit to how perfect a part can be so please keep this in consideration. I have done this and found some corrections have been made to parts. My big example is the wood for the 68C. I found that the two major wood guys were making the wood with a simplified joint in the bow. This was the root cause of the top not fitting correctly. After discussions with several cabriolet guys I found they just lived with the problem and did not tell the wood guy. I fed this back to the wood guys and the initial comment was that I was the first person to complain. Later the wood guy found some good top wood and realized I may have been correct. I work with him and he sent me samples I could test on my body. He did final corrections now he supplies a better product.

So far the few corrections I have helped with took a couple of years from my first comment till the product was corrected.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Dave27

I am new to the group so I dont know everyone as well as you buuuut. Thats a pretty bold statement though grouping Model A people as a whole choose the cheapest method possible. But like I said I acnt respond due to I dont know everyone yet.

With all due respect towards you sir, I am 51 years old today and have been exposed to this hobby for better than 51½ years. I have seen trends come & go over all those years but the one thing that has been consistant throughout the years is that the majority of Model A people will choose to go with "cheaply made" over authentically made. Most parts retailers (suppliers, --not manufacturers) choose to sell whichever product the margins are greatest in and most hobbyists let them know by who they spend their money with. Naturally there might be an exception to my comments but you can absolutely bet that if JC Whitney were still selling Model A parts, most Model A vendors would see a drop in their sales. The classic line I hear that goes along with this trend is "My car is just a driver." ...as if to say it doesn't need to be authentic or work accurately.

[Dave27]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

With all due respect towards you sir, I am 51 years old today and have been exposed to this hobby for better than 51½ years. I have seen trends come & go over all those years but the one thing that has been consistant throughout the years is that the majority of Model A people will choose to go with "cheaply made" over authentically made. Most parts retailers (suppliers, --not manufacturers) choose to sell whichever product the margins are greatest in and most hobbyists let them know by who they spend their money with. Naturally there might be an exception to my comments but you can absolutely bet that if JC Whitney were still selling Model A parts, most Model A vendors would see a drop in their sales. The classic line I hear that goes along with this trend is "My car is just a driver." ...as if to say it doesn't need to be authentic or work accurately.

Like I said cant argue and I dont doubt what you say, just having a discussion. I can tell your very knowledgable with this hobbie.... I would like to say though Happy Birthday.