The Ford Barn

sphanna · 08-04-2012, 09:42 PM

First cool day in about 40 days. Only 84*. Coming home from a 30 mile trip with engine temp nice and cool and driving about 50 miles an hour against a stiff wind and climbing a grade with full throttle,the radiator spit water a little. I let off the throttle and it stopped immediately. In times past when this happened the water temp. was quite hot. This time it was not. Got me thinking, why. Rad does not use water normally. I am thinking that maybe I have a slight head gasket leak when cylinder pressures are very high under load. Under normal driving at same speeds it does not spit, even at OAT's of 97-100* I have a B head at 4.6:1 and torqued to 55#. Have retorqued about 4 times in 360 miles since I put this engine together. Does my diagnosis seem reasonable to you? I appreciate the wisdom of many of you who are so helpful. Thank You.

Also, I think I saw a post about a place that rebuilds shift towers for $25 plus parts. Can't find the post, if I saw it here. Anybody know of this?

johnbuckley · 08-05-2012, 04:57 AM

Sure sounds like minor leak in the head gasket. Had exactly the same symptoms with mine only when pounding up a long hill- cured with new gasket.

steve s · 08-05-2012, 08:52 AM

I agree--gotta be the head gasket. The only question is, is it the gasket's fault or some non-flatness in the head or block surface?

larrys40 · 08-05-2012, 09:24 AM

Steve,

It could be a number of things... but I wouldn't go yanking off the head gasket just yet. With that head I would retorque to 60, maybe 65 as long as you know your threads are good... I have gone that much a number of times, and make sure you have a a good gasket between the cap and neck. Also make sure you don't have the coolant level too high. They like to seek their own level and I usually fill to where you can just see it on the baffle... which brings us to the question of the radiator. Ensure that you have a good baffle as it helps to block the thrust of the water to keep from coming out the neck. Some of the repro radiators have terrible baffles.
Take a look at an original and then look at some of the repros.

I would also check with an infared temp sensor ( cheap ones at harbor freight or?) and check your actual coolant temp at cap and various points at the radiator to make sure that the lower end is cooler than the upper as it should be, and that your flow and temps are fairly even and consistent. I know this is a lot to digest... but it only takes a few minutes compared to pulling the head.

If you do pull the head be sure to check for head straightness and cracks, resurface if necessary. Good luck,
Larry S

steve s · 08-05-2012, 09:53 AM

I think that if it's a radiator baffle problem, it would show up at high rpms, not only under load.

steve s · 08-05-2012, 09:57 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

You might want to start a new thread on what's the best gasket to use with a B head on an A block.

juke joint johnny · 08-05-2012, 02:25 PM

There are a couple of extra holes on a B head that aren't on the A block have you tapped and blocked them off? I think you have to use a B gasket if you haven't !!

John Cochran

sphanna · 08-05-2012, 08:59 PM

i did not plane the head or block when I put the engine together. I did not even check it. It was running good before, just a lot of wear. Took a chance with rebore, new pistons, and insert bearings. I cannot give a good reason why I neglected to plane head. Not smart. I do have a B gasket installed though.

Fred K-OR · 08-05-2012, 09:15 PM

Just, from a guy that knows little about the A, but could it be your spark adjustment? Maybe not enough advanced or to much? Just a guess from a non teckie.

Chuck Sea/Tac · 08-06-2012, 09:39 PM

you could fill the radiator over the baffle, and run the engine at a fast idle, and look for bubbles, or find someone with a gas leak detector, as it will sense gasoline combustion gas.

johnbuckley · 08-07-2012, 04:26 AM

Hey Chuck, That's difficult to when doing 50 mph on an upgradient- Suggest you strap the wife to the radiator to check that out!

Chuck Sea/Tac · 08-07-2012, 12:37 PM

John, you don't have to be driving 50 mph up hill. If it's leaking then, it is most likely all ways leaking, just to a much smaller degree and will show up as bubbles in the radiator at a fast idle.

Jerry in Shasta · 08-07-2012, 01:00 PM

I found that after it "spits" out a certain amount of water, after which it settles down stops throwing water. Or I just fill it to the lower part of the baffle.

sphanna · 08-07-2012, 08:42 PM

Retorqued to 60# today. 97*F did not get spit today. I did find some of my bolts with only 50# torque. I appreciate all attempts to help me understand what could have caused this. I do run my rad level at about 1/2 IN. below the baffle. Just so I can see water thru the hole that the overflow pipe feeds through with flash light. It holds this level and seeks this level if I fill above that. AS I said, I did not plane the head or block but I did put a straight edge on them and I thought they were flat enough. Seems to be OK now but if I have the problem reoccurring, I think it would be time to plane the head.

Aerocraft · 08-07-2012, 09:07 PM

Steve, I have a similar problem with my coupe that I have been living with for years. It only spits a bit of water out under high manifold pressure when I am climbing a hill. My feeling is that the engine may have a steam pocket in the back of the head that is aggravated under heavy load and when, on an incline, the steam seeks the high point and gets pushed out by the water pump. That very same problem is why Bernie Pietenpol added a second water outlet to the top of the radiator (see picture) in order to release steam when climbing. When that burp happens, I add some coolent and ignore the happening. Gar Williams

jkeesey · 08-08-2012, 09:19 PM

I would pull the head and get it decked. Even if the head worked perfectly fine before it may have a slight warp. A good check you can do is start at #1 cylinder tdc put the trans in first and ebrake on and wheels choked. Take a compression gauge and remove the core from the hose that screws into the head. Now hook up a compressed air line to that hose and check in your radiator for bubbles. This will also let you check your valve seats and rings by listening to the oil fill pipe carb and muffler. Then you rotate the engine in firing order and test the other cylinders at their tdc.

08-05-2012, 04:57 AM	#2
johnbuckley Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1,444	Re: Spits on hard pull Sure sounds like minor leak in the head gasket. Had exactly the same symptoms with mine only when pounding up a long hill- cured with new gasket.

08-05-2012, 08:52 AM	#3
steve s Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Kalamazoo Posts: 1,656	Re: Spits on hard pull I agree--gotta be the head gasket. The only question is, is it the gasket's fault or some non-flatness in the head or block surface?

08-05-2012, 09:24 AM	#4
larrys40 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: St Charles , Missouri Posts: 1,998	Re: Spits on hard pull Steve, It could be a number of things... but I wouldn't go yanking off the head gasket just yet. With that head I would retorque to 60, maybe 65 as long as you know your threads are good... I have gone that much a number of times, and make sure you have a a good gasket between the cap and neck. Also make sure you don't have the coolant level too high. They like to seek their own level and I usually fill to where you can just see it on the baffle... which brings us to the question of the radiator. Ensure that you have a good baffle as it helps to block the thrust of the water to keep from coming out the neck. Some of the repro radiators have terrible baffles. Take a look at an original and then look at some of the repros. I would also check with an infared temp sensor ( cheap ones at harbor freight or?) and check your actual coolant temp at cap and various points at the radiator to make sure that the lower end is cooler than the upper as it should be, and that your flow and temps are fairly even and consistent. I know this is a lot to digest... but it only takes a few minutes compared to pulling the head. If you do pull the head be sure to check for head straightness and cracks, resurface if necessary. Good luck, Larry S

08-05-2012, 09:53 AM	#5
steve s Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Kalamazoo Posts: 1,656	Re: Spits on hard pull I think that if it's a radiator baffle problem, it would show up at high rpms, not only under load.

08-05-2012, 09:57 AM	#6
steve s Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Kalamazoo Posts: 1,656	Re: Spits on hard pull Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) You might want to start a new thread on what's the best gasket to use with a B head on an A block.

08-04-2012, 09:42 PM	#1
sphanna Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Polk City, Iowa Posts: 526	Spits on hard pull First cool day in about 40 days. Only 84. Coming home from a 30 mile trip with engine temp nice and cool and driving about 50 miles an hour against a stiff wind and climbing a grade with full throttle,the radiator spit water a little. I let off the throttle and it stopped immediately. In times past when this happened the water temp. was quite hot. This time it was not. Got me thinking, why. Rad does not use water normally. I am thinking that maybe I have a slight head gasket leak when cylinder pressures are very high under load. Under normal driving at same speeds it does not spit, even at OAT's of 97-100 I have a B head at 4.6:1 and torqued to 55#. Have retorqued about 4 times in 360 miles since I put this engine together. Does my diagnosis seem reasonable to you? I appreciate the wisdom of many of you who are so helpful. Thank You. Also, I think I saw a post about a place that rebuilds shift towers for $25 plus parts. Can't find the post, if I saw it here. Anybody know of this? __________________ Steve Hanna, Polk City, IA

08-05-2012, 02:25 PM	#7
juke joint johnny Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: London England Posts: 908	Re: Spits on hard pull There are a couple of extra holes on a B head that aren't on the A block have you tapped and blocked them off? I think you have to use a B gasket if you haven't !! John Cochran

08-05-2012, 08:59 PM	#8
sphanna Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Polk City, Iowa Posts: 526	Re: Spits on hard pull i did not plane the head or block when I put the engine together. I did not even check it. It was running good before, just a lot of wear. Took a chance with rebore, new pistons, and insert bearings. I cannot give a good reason why I neglected to plane head. Not smart. I do have a B gasket installed though. __________________ Steve Hanna, Polk City, IA

08-05-2012, 09:15 PM	#9
Fred K-OR Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Stayton, Oregon Posts: 3,806	Re: Spits on hard pull Just, from a guy that knows little about the A, but could it be your spark adjustment? Maybe not enough advanced or to much? Just a guess from a non teckie. __________________ Fred Kroon 1929 Std Coupe 1929 Huckster

08-06-2012, 09:39 PM	#10
Chuck Sea/Tac Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Between Seattle & Tacoma Posts: 2,354	Re: Spits on hard pull you could fill the radiator over the baffle, and run the engine at a fast idle, and look for bubbles, or find someone with a gas leak detector, as it will sense gasoline combustion gas.

08-07-2012, 04:26 AM	#11
johnbuckley Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1,444	Re: Spits on hard pull Hey Chuck, That's difficult to when doing 50 mph on an upgradient- Suggest you strap the wife to the radiator to check that out!

08-07-2012, 12:37 PM	#12
Chuck Sea/Tac Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Between Seattle & Tacoma Posts: 2,354	Re: Spits on hard pull John, you don't have to be driving 50 mph up hill. If it's leaking then, it is most likely all ways leaking, just to a much smaller degree and will show up as bubbles in the radiator at a fast idle.

08-07-2012, 01:00 PM	#13
Jerry in Shasta Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: (Old)Shasta (Redding) CA Posts: 385	Re: Spits on hard pull I found that after it "spits" out a certain amount of water, after which it settles down stops throwing water. Or I just fill it to the lower part of the baffle.

08-07-2012, 08:42 PM	#14
sphanna Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Polk City, Iowa Posts: 526	Re: Spits on hard pull Retorqued to 60# today. 97*F did not get spit today. I did find some of my bolts with only 50# torque. I appreciate all attempts to help me understand what could have caused this. I do run my rad level at about 1/2 IN. below the baffle. Just so I can see water thru the hole that the overflow pipe feeds through with flash light. It holds this level and seeks this level if I fill above that. AS I said, I did not plane the head or block but I did put a straight edge on them and I thought they were flat enough. Seems to be OK now but if I have the problem reoccurring, I think it would be time to plane the head. __________________ Steve Hanna, Polk City, IA

08-08-2012, 09:19 PM	#16
jkeesey Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Glenmoore Pa Posts: 1,644	Re: Spits on hard pull I would pull the head and get it decked. Even if the head worked perfectly fine before it may have a slight warp. A good check you can do is start at #1 cylinder tdc put the trans in first and ebrake on and wheels choked. Take a compression gauge and remove the core from the hose that screws into the head. Now hook up a compressed air line to that hose and check in your radiator for bubbles. This will also let you check your valve seats and rings by listening to the oil fill pipe carb and muffler. Then you rotate the engine in firing order and test the other cylinders at their tdc.