The Ford Barn

Clem Clement · 07-30-2015, 09:20 PM

In third gear my '39 peeekup howls loudly in any speed. We think the tranny is from a '35. Tonite I jacked up the rear and ran the tranny thru its gears. In first and reverse no sounds. Second gear and about 20 is fairly quiet. third gear howls. Pushing in the clutch and letting the rear end slow down, no howling. Pumpkin fluid level is fine. Pumpkin did not get warm with 5 minutes of running. Sound seems to be coming from the rear, but I realize sounds travels in a closed system. Uni is full of Cornhead grease.

what next?

quickchange34 · 07-30-2015, 11:42 PM

Carrier bearings in rear

V8COOPMAN · 07-31-2015, 09:34 AM

In my experience with a couple of different vehicles, that howling turned-out to be pinion bearings. DD

Clem Clement · 07-31-2015, 10:13 AM

Where is the carrier bearing located? The Green book tied it into the Uni joint.
MAC's catalogue doesn't mention it.

V8COOPMAN · 07-31-2015, 01:02 PM

Two carrier bearings.......one on each side of the differential / ring gear assy. DD

Part numbers 4221 and 4222 below, X2!

Clem Clement · 07-31-2015, 02:18 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Golly. Them's is buried.

JSeery · 07-31-2015, 02:20 PM

Everything on a rear end is "buried" LOL

rotorwrench · 07-31-2015, 05:55 PM

Pinion bearings that are not set up with good turning pre-load on the taper bearings will make a howl under load and it will stop when you take the load off. I'd check there first. Transmission bearings for the main input or the main output will make noise all the time if they are bad. There will also be a fair amount of metal in the oil as a general rule.

Clem Clement · 07-31-2015, 09:37 PM

thanks all. How do I adj the pinion bearing?

rotorwrench · 08-01-2015, 09:01 AM

If you scope out the detail illustration, you will see two nuts with a lockwasher associated with the pinion shaft. The nut against the forward bearing is tightened to get the preload and the second nut locks it.

There may be a lot of wear in that Timken stack up so it would be a good idea to inspect the bearings for deterioration on the rollers or races. If the bearings have normal wear then they may be able to take a tightening but pre-load is always less on a used set of bearings. I would consider replacing the bearing/race stack. The condition of the gear teeth are also suspect if it's been running this way for a long time. the teeth will wear unevenly and can cause difficulty in setting up backlash during an overhaul.

Clem Clement · 08-01-2015, 04:55 PM

Did I mention that with just me in the truck the noise is much less.

Mart · 08-02-2015, 02:20 AM

Before you tear anything apart, try one easy thing, if only to "eliminate from enquiries".

My roadster had an awful "banshee wail" that would kick in sometimes. It was worse when cold, and was kind of intermittent. It was getting more frequent so I investigated. It was related to road speed, and did it when in gear, neutral, engine off, engine on. I worked out it had to be something to do with the output side of the gearbox, or the torque ntube, or axle. I had already swapped the axle (luckily not as an attempt to try and fix the noise), so I could rule that and the torque tube out. W was about to pull the engine and box to strip the gearbox when I found the cause, almost by accident.

It was the speedo.

It must have a dry bearing in it or something. I disconnected it and the noise went away.

Long story, easy fix.

At least try disconnecting the speedo cable before tearing anything apart.

Second thing: If the noise is axle related, it does not know what gear you are in. If the noise occurs at a speed where you can get in either second or top, get it at that speed and try in both gears. If the noise is the same, then it is probably differential related. If not, it is probably transmission related.

If the noise only happens at a speed above the speed range available in second gear, then it is probably axle related.

My 33 has a noisy axle that starts making a noise when warmed up at about 55mph. once it starts making the noise, I can play tunes on it by altering the amount of pedal I apply. Once it has started making tha noise I can also detect it at half the speed (25-30mph).

This is a typical worn rear end, and will require a rebuild to fix it. I have chosen to leave it alone for the time being and put up with it as I do not believe it is a sign of imminent failure. (I sand being corrected if anyone can advise).

I describe the synptoms here in case yours is similar.

One last point, don't forget the 39's have a bearing half way along the torque tube. It should have a grease fitting. Try greasing that and also shoot the lube of your choice into the u joint area.

Mart.

rotorwrench · 08-02-2015, 10:08 AM

If other checks don't pan out, you can check the pinion shaft for shake movement after removing the torque tube. This of course would require disconnecting the whole rear drive unit from the shocks, frame, & u-joint and rolling it out from under the vehicle. The pinion shaft normally will have no movement other than normal rotation. If the bearings are loose, it will have noticeable side to side shake and/or in and out play.

07-30-2015, 09:20 PM	#1
Clem Clement Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Fairfax, VA Posts: 3,393	power train noise In third gear my '39 peeekup howls loudly in any speed. We think the tranny is from a '35. Tonite I jacked up the rear and ran the tranny thru its gears. In first and reverse no sounds. Second gear and about 20 is fairly quiet. third gear howls. Pushing in the clutch and letting the rear end slow down, no howling. Pumpkin fluid level is fine. Pumpkin did not get warm with 5 minutes of running. Sound seems to be coming from the rear, but I realize sounds travels in a closed system. Uni is full of Cornhead grease. what next?

07-30-2015, 11:42 PM	#2
quickchange34 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: charlottesville, Va. Posts: 589	Re: power train noise Carrier bearings in rear

07-31-2015, 09:34 AM	#3
V8COOPMAN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: East Shore of LAKE HOUSTON Posts: 11,115	Re: power train noise In my experience with a couple of different vehicles, that howling turned-out to be pinion bearings. DD __________________ *Click Links Below* __ ▼ *'35-'36 W/8BA & MECHANICAL FAN* *T5 W/TORQUE TUBE*

07-31-2015, 10:13 AM	#4
Clem Clement Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Fairfax, VA Posts: 3,393	Re: power train noise Where is the carrier bearing located? The Green book tied it into the Uni joint. MAC's catalogue doesn't mention it.

07-31-2015, 01:02 PM	#5
V8COOPMAN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: East Shore of LAKE HOUSTON Posts: 11,115	Re: power train noise Two carrier bearings.......one on each side of the differential / ring gear assy. DD Part numbers 4221 and 4222 below, X2! __________________ *Click Links Below* __ ▼ *'35-'36 W/8BA & MECHANICAL FAN* *T5 W/TORQUE TUBE* Last edited by V8COOPMAN; 07-31-2015 at 01:17 PM.

07-31-2015, 02:18 PM	#6
Clem Clement Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Fairfax, VA Posts: 3,393	Re: power train noise Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Golly. Them's is buried.

07-31-2015, 02:20 PM	#7
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: power train noise Everything on a rear end is "buried" LOL

07-31-2015, 05:55 PM	#8
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,440	Re: power train noise Pinion bearings that are not set up with good turning pre-load on the taper bearings will make a howl under load and it will stop when you take the load off. I'd check there first. Transmission bearings for the main input or the main output will make noise all the time if they are bad. There will also be a fair amount of metal in the oil as a general rule.

07-31-2015, 09:37 PM	#9
Clem Clement Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Fairfax, VA Posts: 3,393	Re: power train noise thanks all. How do I adj the pinion bearing?

08-01-2015, 09:01 AM	#10
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,440	Re: power train noise If you scope out the detail illustration, you will see two nuts with a lockwasher associated with the pinion shaft. The nut against the forward bearing is tightened to get the preload and the second nut locks it. There may be a lot of wear in that Timken stack up so it would be a good idea to inspect the bearings for deterioration on the rollers or races. If the bearings have normal wear then they may be able to take a tightening but pre-load is always less on a used set of bearings. I would consider replacing the bearing/race stack. The condition of the gear teeth are also suspect if it's been running this way for a long time. the teeth will wear unevenly and can cause difficulty in setting up backlash during an overhaul.

08-01-2015, 04:55 PM	#11
Clem Clement Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Fairfax, VA Posts: 3,393	Re: power train noise Did I mention that with just me in the truck the noise is much less.

08-02-2015, 02:20 AM	#12
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,756	Re: power train noise Before you tear anything apart, try one easy thing, if only to "eliminate from enquiries". My roadster had an awful "banshee wail" that would kick in sometimes. It was worse when cold, and was kind of intermittent. It was getting more frequent so I investigated. It was related to road speed, and did it when in gear, neutral, engine off, engine on. I worked out it had to be something to do with the output side of the gearbox, or the torque ntube, or axle. I had already swapped the axle (luckily not as an attempt to try and fix the noise), so I could rule that and the torque tube out. W was about to pull the engine and box to strip the gearbox when I found the cause, almost by accident. It was the speedo. It must have a dry bearing in it or something. I disconnected it and the noise went away. Long story, easy fix. At least try disconnecting the speedo cable before tearing anything apart. Second thing: If the noise is axle related, it does not know what gear you are in. If the noise occurs at a speed where you can get in either second or top, get it at that speed and try in both gears. If the noise is the same, then it is probably differential related. If not, it is probably transmission related. If the noise only happens at a speed above the speed range available in second gear, then it is probably axle related. My 33 has a noisy axle that starts making a noise when warmed up at about 55mph. once it starts making the noise, I can play tunes on it by altering the amount of pedal I apply. Once it has started making tha noise I can also detect it at half the speed (25-30mph). This is a typical worn rear end, and will require a rebuild to fix it. I have chosen to leave it alone for the time being and put up with it as I do not believe it is a sign of imminent failure. (I sand being corrected if anyone can advise). I describe the synptoms here in case yours is similar. One last point, don't forget the 39's have a bearing half way along the torque tube. It should have a grease fitting. Try greasing that and also shoot the lube of your choice into the u joint area. Mart.

08-02-2015, 10:08 AM	#13
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,440	Re: power train noise If other checks don't pan out, you can check the pinion shaft for shake movement after removing the torque tube. This of course would require disconnecting the whole rear drive unit from the shocks, frame, & u-joint and rolling it out from under the vehicle. The pinion shaft normally will have no movement other than normal rotation. If the bearings are loose, it will have noticeable side to side shake and/or in and out play.