Engine temp rises when I get to cruise speed

[The Brassworks]

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

I can understand how a second fan would help when the car isn't moving or is at low speed. BUT I think you've told us many times that your temps continue to rise out on the highway at highway speeds. At higher speeds the fans are doing nothing as you're pumping tons of air through the radiator core via the fact you're moving at a high rate of speed.

If your temperatures are rising to 205 on the highway and Lee says that a second fan is going to lower them, then I'm not buying that for one minute. No offense to Lee, but fans (any dang fans) are not helping you at 55 mph.


My goal would be for not higher than about 190 going down the highway - unless it was 100 degrees out and I was pulling some huge grade.


Best of luck, hope you get things sorted out.
B&S

I am not offended. I agree with you. He did not listen to what I said and he did not read what I wrote. rinse wash repeat

[jrvariel48]

Originally Posted by The Brassworks

I am not offended. I agree with you. He did not listen to what I said and he did not read what I wrote. rinse wash repeat

This is what Lee suggested. I did everything but the two fans, but still have high temps. I will put the ebay radiator back in the coming weeks to see what I get. It'll be more difficult now because the outside air is much cooler, but I should be able to see some kind of change.
Lee, I don't understand which part where I didn't follow your advice. I did everything you asked for except installing two fans.
Please explain, I never claimed to be the smartest guy. Thank you


One change at a time. Get a note pad and log results under various conditions after making one change before you make the next change.
What's relevant is the temperature in and out and I saw you bought an inline gauge.
The highway and off ramp temps are what I would want to see most.
Log the date, air temp, gauge temps (at idle, 10-20, 30-40, 50-60), distances traveled at respective speeds and any changes observed within those speeds.
The cooling components fan claims 2,500. You spent money on this product so use it.

That shroud is trapping air at higher speeds and then not recovering I am not sure its the root cause but its not helping and your description sounds like trapped air flow and heat soak
Remove the shroud. In this scaled illustration the black is flush against the core and in the grey area, the air has to pass in a ~7/8” gap around the ~1” solid ring supporting the blades. Your temps are okay around town but climb on the highway this will help on the highway and you'll have to see how it does around town. You may be able to run one fan


If that reduces your temperatures enough for highway and town, then stop. If it gets you lower and you still want more, then put the SPAL pusher back on in an offset position. The yellow gives you 1,959 cfm. The green claims 2,500 cfm, the blue area is the combined cfm (not literally). This will help on the highway and this will help it recover (from what I hope is an already lower than 205 temperature from getting rid of that molded plastic).



The only other suggestion I would make is two SPAL fans. I would NOT go this route I tested step 3 and step 4 because of the incremental cost

they're better quality.
the combined stated cfm is lower than the two you have now but I believe it to be closer to reality.

the motors have smaller diameters to impede air and the vanes and finger guards block less air than the flex lite you had and the cooling components you bought.



I recall you said the hoses had not collapsed. Check your coolant flow with thermostats open and higher rpm. If its not pumping enough you may want to check your pump impellers condition and design. The guys who mentioned the fallacy of fluid too fast are correct - there is no such thing. The oe pumps used cast impellers. The casting is thick and they have a reduced eye which results in reduced volume. The vanes are not tall and this too reduces the flow. I have seen worn vanes and you should look for evidence of cavitation e.g. pitting and tip wear if you don't have flow.
Regarding your coolant composition.

Water has the best specific heat value to shed heat.

Ethlyene glycol and propylene glycol have engine preservation properties and raises boiling point but lower specific heat. Specific heat is the amount of heat required to change the temperature of a mass unit of a substance by one degree.

You're using 20/80 propylene glycol at 328' elevation and have a 7psi cap I expect you'll boil at 233 deg. You are running at 205 on the highway so boiling is not a concern but specific heat is.

Tap water may have minerals and create scale so use a premix or distilled water.

[The Brassworks]

I am going think about your problem over the weekend to see if you missed anything. I had someone type this up so I could reflect on what could possibly be special about this radiator in this set-up.

Between October 14th 2021 and July 4, 2022, Joe changed from an aluminum radiator with multiple repairs purchased on ebay to a new copper new radiator. He also changed thermostats, coolant, switched pusher fan to puller fan with shroud, removed his lower air panel. He reports 205o on the highway for short durations and would like to see 190o

July 26th He adjusted his timing, removed the fan and shroud and changed the fan manufacturer and saw a 40o drop in the top to bottom of the radiator

July 30th He added the air panel back, radiator drops 30o from top to bottom but sees 205o at 85o

August 1st He saw 205o for 15 minutes at 78o

August 3rd He pondered making an aluminum and copper radiator. He installed a larger coolant tank, adjusted his timing.

August 5th Discovers air in his system 200o temps that day were between 62o and 90o

August 6th saw 205o on the highway on a 90o day

August 13th Joe reports; “No changes we remade after I installed the radiator.” 185o at 63o day

August 18th discovers his pumps are speedway not skip haney

August 20th discovers that his 160 degree thermostats open at 180o. Replaces t stats with Bob Shewman drilled hole thermostats. Saw 200o on a 90o day

August 20th Saw 200o on 75o day

August 28th Replaced his rear end

October 1st Changes the water pumps from speedway to skip haney and changes to 50/50

October 7th 205o at 73o

October 9th 180o at 43o

[19Fordy]

This is really off the track BUT, I wonder if a cross flow radiator design would work better?

QUESTION: Was the Ebay alum. radiator that seemed to work ever reinstalled? I didn't see that mentioned in the chronolgy above.

And then there's the idea of using an electric water pump on a flathead.
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=85747

[Bored&Stroked]

Hey Lee - trying to figure out your last post?

* He fixed the issue *

[The Brassworks]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Sorry - That was copied and pasted. I'll edit that out and the grunt will be severely beaten.

[Bored&Stroked]

Originally Posted by The Brassworks

Sorry - That was copied and pasted. I'll edit that out and the grunt will be severely beaten.

Thanks for the fix and reply

[The Brassworks]

I never got to the weekend. I lost my afternoon going down this rabbit hole again.

A year before Joe ever contacted us he was on this forum talking with this same group about this same engine with the OE Ford radiator at temps of 210 and 220. He seemed far less worried then.

I am in agreement he needs a bigger radiator.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...69#post1890769

[jrvariel48]

Originally Posted by 19Fordy

This is really off the track BUT, I wonder if a cross flow radiator design would work better?

QUESTION: Was the Ebay alum. radiator that seemed to work ever reinstalled? I didn't see that mentioned in the chronolgy above.

And then there's the idea of using an electric water pump on a flathead.
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=85747

That's my next step

[jrvariel48]

Originally Posted by The Brassworks

I never got to the weekend. I lost my afternoon going down this rabbit hole again.

A year before Joe ever contacted us he was on this forum talking with this same group about this same engine with the OE Ford radiator at temps of 210 and 220. He seemed far less worried then.

I am in agreement he needs a bigger radiator.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...69#post1890769

Hi Lee thanks for your time. Referring to the older post, that was a stock radiator that I had hot tanked at least two times. After pulling it out one day I noticed a lot of built up crud coming out of the bottom outlets. I believe that's around the time I got the ebay radiator and possibly when I ordered your radiator. I can check dates to confirm.

[The Brassworks]

"crud coming out of the bottom outlets"? You said you had a boiled the block and had hot tanked the radiator two times. Where would sludge come from?

In 2020 you said “I do have about 6 head studs leaking coolant right now so I don't know if that's a factor or not.” On August 5th of this year you said you did not use stud sealer https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...315217&page=14 . Did you ever seal the leaks?

There is no doubt, you definitely need a bigger radiator.

[jrvariel48]

Originally Posted by The Brassworks

"crud coming out of the bottom outlets"? You said you had a boiled the block and had hot tanked the radiator two times. Where would sludge come from?

In 2020 you said “I do have about 6 head studs leaking coolant right now so I don't know if that's a factor or not.” On August 5th of this year you said you did not use stud sealer https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...315217&page=14 . Did you ever seal the leaks?

There is no doubt, you definitely need a bigger radiator.

The leaks finally stopped on their own

I believe it was in the original radiator the whole time.
Maybe the reason it ran so hot.

What do you suggest for a bigger radiator??

[The Brassworks]

Because you have room and you want 15 degrees more from a hopped up engine and you have 10% less face area than the OE core for that engine's production year.

Pretty sure the larger coolant recovery tank and cross flow design or electronic pumps or changing your fluid ratios are not going to remedy the problem any more than changing your paint color or tire pressure.

[Bored&Stroked]

Lee is obviously correct - is what we've all been leaning towards for months. Now the question is WHAT radiator and from WHOM. The smartest thing is for you and Lee to take this offline and see if you can negotiate a deal that makes you both happy.

It will probably take a bit of give-n-take on both sides.

I wish you both luck and hope for a successful outcome for all!
B&S

[Tinker]

Thinking about Betty when you are dating her sister is pointless. Looking at anything previous to the rad you are working with, doesn't matter. Less you don't want to date betty.


Think this might be a circumstance of too much engine trying to force something to work. Have you tried to limit you engine to the rad you want to work? Ugh... that doesn't seem right either...


Only so much can work ecstatically and functionally.

[Bored&Stroked]

"ecstatically and functionally" or "aesthetically and functionally" . . . 6 of one, 1/2 dozen of the other.

Just get a bigger radiator! LOL

[slowforty]

I have a radiator that i thought was for my 40. It has a factory shroud but it is 1/2inch to 3/4 inch larger all the way around. Might be for a truck. any ideas?

[The Brassworks]

Gentlemen, Joe is emailing me again for suggestions. Since what I say is not heard or understood and what I type is pasted here, I am eliminating a step.

Joe had his block boiled and hot tanked his radiator. I am not sure why but hat had it hotanked a second time and yet somehow he still still saw crud. His head bolts leaked but luckily, they “stopped leaking on their own”. Joe enjoys the fellowship and the esprit de corps of the virtual coffee shop found on the Ford Barn Forum. Its a great space for him explore his ideas out loud. Here is an article that may help you and Joe further explore the mysteries of combustion gases and flathead design https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/10...-the-flathead/

With regard to the radiator; in July he had 30-40 degree temperature drops in his radiator with his newest fan modifications. After minor changes in August and September e.g change of coolant composition, changed thermostats from 160 to 160 with holes, discovered thermostats were 180 not 160, discovered water pump was speedway not skip haney, had pumps rebuilt, added a larger recovery tank, discovered air in his system and changed a rear end. Other than these minor changes everything was exactly the same but he is apparently back at 205 on the highway for limited times. Albeit better than the 210 and 220 he saw with his OE radiator it not sufficient for Joe. I have a far better understanding of the situation but I am out of ideas related to radiators beyond get a bigger radiator.

[Bored&Stroked]

As Lee said and we all know . . . "get a bigger radiator" is the only viable solution.

There is nothing else left to do (to research the issue) and frankly a lot of potential "gremlins" were chased with little positive impact on the overall situation. Coming full-circle, Joe is basically back to where he started.

Nothing can fix the core issue - the radiator does not have enough cooling capacity for what it is being asked to do - period.

Hopefully Lee and Joe can come to terms with a plan to solve the problem with a new/bigger radiator that can handle his cooling needs.

B&S

[19Fordy]

JOE: Open this link and read the first item: It might provide new ideas.
https://www.google.com/search?q=do+b...hrome&ie=UTF-8

Also read this material:
https://www.google.com/search?q=flat...hrome&ie=UTF-8

I still am pondering what was said in the original post.
"It seems that after I installed the radiator the problems started. I had a cheap Ebay aluminum P.O.S. it there last summer and I had no problems".

That Motor Trend article (above) was excellent.
https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/10...-the-flathead/