The Ford Barn

Tinker · 10-25-2018, 09:50 PM

So how was your toe?

grumppyoldman · 10-28-2018, 04:53 PM

Haven't got to do anything to it yet. Will get me some 1X1's and some small C-clamps to make a gauge to check with. Made a short drive today ( finally sunshine ) things are looking better, need chalk also. Is it better to have the tires on the ground to check for toe-in or can it be done with jack stands under frame, letting the wheels hang down. I've never done it with the tires off the ground, but I could get a higher reading, because the gauge will hit the pan before it gets to center of wheel. Al

JSeery · 10-28-2018, 05:51 PM

The axle isn't going to flex much and the spindles should not as well. I have never tried it both ways and compared, but don't see why it would be a problem.

grumppyoldman · 10-28-2018, 06:46 PM

I'll check it both ways, since I have to have it up to chalk mark the tire's anyway. will let you know if there is a difference or not. Al

ford38v8 · 10-28-2018, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grumppyoldman

I'll check it both ways, since I have to have it up to chalk mark the tire's anyway. will let you know if there is a difference or not. Al

Al, this is Talkwrench's toe-in measurement tool. It has uprights that allow the connecting bar to be closer to ground level, so the bar doesn't interfere with his oil pan. I really like this one, my only criticism being that the uprights look to be vulnerable to bump out of alignment while moving the tool from front to back of the wheels.

JSeery · 10-29-2018, 11:09 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by grumppyoldman

I'll check it both ways, since I have to have it up to chalk mark the tire's anyway. will let you know if there is a difference or not. Al

Well be interesting to see your results.

Tinker · 10-29-2018, 08:43 PM

I agree with JSeery. When you have a moment, I know we all have lives too.

grumppyoldman · 10-29-2018, 11:15 PM

I got the toe in set at 1/32" with tire's off the slab. Will check it again tomorrow with car load to see if it changed. Couldn't raise it high enough to let wheels and axle hang free to see if there is a difference of supported under axle. Al

Mart · 10-30-2018, 08:30 AM

Sorry, I meant to reply earlier. You should set it with the vehicle's weight on the wheels. An old newspaper under each wheel can act as a low friction surface, a makeshift turntable if you like. A piece of wood held against each tyre 4 or 5 inches off the ground (use something to hold them at that height) and take a measurement across the pieces of wood, at the front and rear, at a distance that is approximately the diameter of the tyre.

I believe the recommended toe-in should be between 1/16 and 1/8" measured as described above.

Your 1/32 dimension may be a bit shy of what you want.

Is the steering box adjusted correctly?
Is the drag link adjusted so the "sweet spot" in the steering box adjustment coincides with the straight ahead position of the wheels?

Many later models use a steering damper. There would be no shame in fitting one if you have exhausted all other avenues.

Mart.

Talkwrench · 10-30-2018, 08:36 PM

"You should set it with the vehicle's weight on the wheels." Yes and you should be rolling your car forward a few meters [yards] too. Then check.

"my only criticism being that the uprights look to be vulnerable to bump out of alignment while moving the tool from front to back of the wheels." Yes you have to be careful.

grumppyoldman · 10-31-2018, 11:42 AM

Well I finally have it set at 1/32", set it with wheels of slab, lowered it ,still same setting rolled it back and forth no change. Ran it up to 85 mph no shimmy, Now since I have the stabelizer I will make a clamp for the axle and hook it back up, if it makes it steer harder I'll remove it. Thank's for all the help and advice you've given me. Al

Cool Hand Lurker · 10-31-2018, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grumppyoldman

Well I finally have it set at 1/32", set it with wheels of slab, lowered it ,still same setting rolled it back and forth no change. Ran it up to 85 mph no shimmy, Now since I have the stabelizer I will make a clamp for the axle and hook it back up, if it makes it steer harder I'll remove it. Thank's for all the help and advice you've given me. Al

THANK YOU!
The comments about the reading changing in the jacked up position versus the down on the ground position never made sense to me when talking about a car with a solid axle. I am glad you made both measurements.
And the 1/32" toe-in setting is interesting. I might have to try that one.

Mart · 11-01-2018, 04:19 AM

I was thinking that any minor play in the kingpins might effect the readings. Also if jacking up from the frame, the caster will be out.

Probably not massively influential , but why not test on the ground? The point about rolling forward before measuring is good, too.

I'm glad the car is driving acceptably now. Personally I'd bump the toe to 3/32 and see if still ok, as that is the factory recommendation. If it all goes horribly wrong you know you can pull it back to the present settings and restore the current acceptable situation.

10-25-2018, 09:50 PM	#41
Tinker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: MN Posts: 7,053	Re: Up-date on 41 front wheel shimmy So how was your toe?

10-28-2018, 04:53 PM	#42
grumppyoldman Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Texas Gulf Coast Posts: 727	Re: Up-date on 41 front wheel shimmy Haven't got to do anything to it yet. Will get me some 1X1's and some small C-clamps to make a gauge to check with. Made a short drive today ( finally sunshine ) things are looking better, need chalk also. Is it better to have the tires on the ground to check for toe-in or can it be done with jack stands under frame, letting the wheels hang down. I've never done it with the tires off the ground, but I could get a higher reading, because the gauge will hit the pan before it gets to center of wheel. Al

10-28-2018, 05:51 PM	#43
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: Up-date on 41 front wheel shimmy The axle isn't going to flex much and the spindles should not as well. I have never tried it both ways and compared, but don't see why it would be a problem.

10-28-2018, 06:46 PM	#44
grumppyoldman Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Texas Gulf Coast Posts: 727	Re: Up-date on 41 front wheel shimmy I'll check it both ways, since I have to have it up to chalk mark the tire's anyway. will let you know if there is a difference or not. Al

10-29-2018, 08:43 PM	#47
Tinker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: MN Posts: 7,053	Re: Up-date on 41 front wheel shimmy I agree with JSeery. When you have a moment, I know we all have lives too.

10-29-2018, 11:15 PM	#48
grumppyoldman Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Texas Gulf Coast Posts: 727	Re: Up-date on 41 front wheel shimmy I got the toe in set at 1/32" with tire's off the slab. Will check it again tomorrow with car load to see if it changed. Couldn't raise it high enough to let wheels and axle hang free to see if there is a difference of supported under axle. Al

10-30-2018, 08:30 AM	#49
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,755	Re: Up-date on 41 front wheel shimmy Sorry, I meant to reply earlier. You should set it with the vehicle's weight on the wheels. An old newspaper under each wheel can act as a low friction surface, a makeshift turntable if you like. A piece of wood held against each tyre 4 or 5 inches off the ground (use something to hold them at that height) and take a measurement across the pieces of wood, at the front and rear, at a distance that is approximately the diameter of the tyre. I believe the recommended toe-in should be between 1/16 and 1/8" measured as described above. Your 1/32 dimension may be a bit shy of what you want. Is the steering box adjusted correctly? Is the drag link adjusted so the "sweet spot" in the steering box adjustment coincides with the straight ahead position of the wheels? Many later models use a steering damper. There would be no shame in fitting one if you have exhausted all other avenues. Mart.

10-30-2018, 08:36 PM	#50
Talkwrench Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 2,687	Re: Up-date on 41 front wheel shimmy "You should set it with the vehicle's weight on the wheels." Yes and you should be rolling your car forward a few meters [yards] too. Then check. "my only criticism being that the uprights look to be vulnerable to bump out of alignment while moving the tool from front to back of the wheels." Yes you have to be careful. __________________ *"Came too close to dying to stop living now!"*

10-31-2018, 11:42 AM	#51
grumppyoldman Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Texas Gulf Coast Posts: 727	Re: Up-date on 41 front wheel shimmy Well I finally have it set at 1/32", set it with wheels of slab, lowered it ,still same setting rolled it back and forth no change. Ran it up to 85 mph no shimmy, Now since I have the stabelizer I will make a clamp for the axle and hook it back up, if it makes it steer harder I'll remove it. Thank's for all the help and advice you've given me. Al

11-01-2018, 04:19 AM	#53
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,755	Re: Up-date on 41 front wheel shimmy I was thinking that any minor play in the kingpins might effect the readings. Also if jacking up from the frame, the caster will be out. Probably not massively influential , but why not test on the ground? The point about rolling forward before measuring is good, too. I'm glad the car is driving acceptably now. Personally I'd bump the toe to 3/32 and see if still ok, as that is the factory recommendation. If it all goes horribly wrong you know you can pull it back to the present settings and restore the current acceptable situation.