Are these "Widow Maker" Wheels?

[truckdog62563]

Originally Posted by Bob C

This is the widow maker.

I scanned that diagram quite a few years ago from my original 1949 Budd catalog. It first went to Vintage Truck Magazine with a letter to the editor. They then released it and a page of others that I'd sent to the folks at the Stovebolt.com Chevy site. Grigg Mullen then included the diagrams in his Chevy Tech page. I've posted it and others probably a few hundred times over the years. They've helped guys in the old truck hobby see what it is they are wanting to avoid, and find replacements for. Stu

[itslow]

There is a good write-up on Stovebolt.com explaining the different types and styles of the "big truck" wheels that have been used throughout the years.

Yeah, it's a Chevy site, so the sizes and bolt patterns are tailored to what was used on the Chevy trucks. In general, though, the wheels aren't/weren't brand specific, especially when it comes to the design of the wheels.

http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/wheels/


Here's a copy of the chart from a '49 Budd wheel catalog showing various designs of multi-piece wheels, as mentioned by truckdog62563.

[truckdog62563]

Grigg did a nice job on that. I did, though, see some of my own wording in there. It's about helping guys avoid getting hurt, and putting others at risk. Stu

[41panelmark]

Originally Posted by luisv

OK. We recently purchased a 1936 Stake truck. We have another thread where I will keeps tabs on the progress. This however is a bit more "specialized" a question and I rather post it separately to avoid the first thread going off on a tangent.

We've heard many stories about the wheels on Ford Big Trucks. Specifically, the split wheels or the infamous "widow makers". I've seen some threads about the wheels, but I did not see many photos of examples. If I read those correctly, the split rims did not come into use until later years. To be sure I rather just ask the experts and be sure.

Are these "widow makers"? Are these safe to put on the road with a truck that will be used?





If these are safe and we can get them serviced at a local truck tire service shop, it could be a game changer for us in terms of decisions we are making regarding axle swaps.

My top concern is the safety of these wheels. If they are good, then we may very well keep them and the banjo rear end.

They look like the one's I just did on my 41, although not widow makers they can be dangerous if not put back together right. Make sure the rings and grooves are in good shape. (See photos on my community tonner page).

[Bassman/NZ]

Heh heh, many, many years ago I saw a split rim blow a hole clear through the ceiling and the roof of a tire shop. Exploded like a bomb! Luckily the operator knew enough to be standing to the side of it.

[junk yard kid]

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One of my employees was about to fill one up with air. The forman told him to use the cage. Since this guy was an idiot he leaned the tire against the cage and climbed inside the cage.

[farmboy]

The 36 1.5 ton i'm working on has these as well. The local tire shop had a guy that knew about them, here we have a lot of old "bob trucks" still in use on farms, so they deal with the true widow makers. I put two of the tires on the front today, and I was scared to even us an impact gun to install the tire, and wraped chains around it like shown above. He said the rings looked good to him, but at there age i'm nervous about being around um.

[malpais]

I was in a u pull it lot last weekend. There was a Dodge motor home with seven 19.5 wheels that fit my '38 1.5 ton.

Not restoring the 38, but for a little over $250, brought em home anyway.

Thanks to Ford Barn!

[Bassman/NZ]

Originally Posted by deuce lover

These only became unsafe when the tire was inflated and the split ring did not sit properly.When I worked in a tire shop in the 60's we had a cage .We rolled the mounted tire and wheel and inflated in that cage.I heard of stories that the ring flew off as the tire was being inflated and the ring imbedding in the rafter of the shop.

I once worked in a tire shop, and there was a hole in the ceiling from a ring flying off.

[Cecil/WV]

I have a picture of a cartoon called Kaputi's Shop where the man was inside the cage airing up the tire leaning on the outside.

[Newc]

Hi all; all the military contract trucks in the '40s use the solid outer ring budd rims, work great, they do have to be clean and inspected when apart. You will notice that the outer solid ring has a 'egg shape' to assist installation/removal. Newc

[truckdog62563]

Not just military vehicles, a vast number of civilian trucks also used the same Firestone "RH" design outer rim. The "RH-5°" that Firestone termed their "Advanced Design" rim, and has come to be termed the "widow maker", first appears in sales materials in 1948. Ford, GM, and Studebaker were quick to adopt use of the RH-5°, while Dodge and IHC seem to have stayed exclusively with Goodyear split ring designs. As a result they are today the best donor vehicles. Stu

[KCTA Chris]

I could use some identification help too, on the "new to me" COE Iv'e been crawling arount these fronts wheel which are different than the rear and starting to worry. Are these the wheels to fear?

[truckdog62563]

Your first pic (face side) and third (showing the raised band looking joint area) are widow makers. I can’t tell much from the second picture. Stu

[Flathead Fever]

I worked on a fleet for 30-years. Before I was hired they had a helper loose two fingers on a split rim. After that the shops were not allowed to change split.

They hired mobile tire repair shops to change them. Most of the split rims had only one locking ring but we had a few mid-seventies, Ford F-600 4x4 Marmon Herrington conversions. that used two lock rings. One mobile tire shop would not touch those three piece rims. He called those the "windowmakers" and said they were illegal. My supervisor checked the vehicle code and DOT and they were legal so the guy had to change them or loose the account. The correct thing to do would have been to buy new rims with the one locking ring.


There is nothing wrong with split rims you just need to carefully follow the mounting rules and make sure all the piece are in good shape! When the rings are new they fit nice and tight. If a tire guy has stretched them too far while prying them off then they don't want to lock into place as easy.

When mounting them you watch the rings slowly seat while tapping on them with a hammer. Your using only enough pressure to get them seated into position. You can see if they are locked in. Then the tire gets moved to the cage. The old cages had three bars and the newest Osha approved ones have four. I brought that up with the Verizon Supervisor because we had a three-bar from the 60s but it didn't do me any good. You stick it in the cage with a clip on inflator that has enough hose so the inflator and your hand are not in the cage. I've done a few of them when we could not get anybody to come out. The hardest thing for me was swinging that big truck tire tool and breaking the bead. The pros land it right up against the rim and break the bead with one swing. When I tried I blasted a big dent in the lip of the rim, oops.

You also let them set for 1/2 hour or so before you pull them out of the cage. If they are down more than 20% of their pressure they are suppose to be removed from the truck and stuck in the cage when inflating.

I never saw one come apart in 30-year's at any of the phone company garages.

[Bob C]

Flathead Fever, I think you are talking about lock ring wheels and not the
"widow maker" pictured that the poster was asking about.


Bob

[truckdog62563]

KCTAChris’ wheels pictured are the RH-5° style that have earned the “widow maker” label. The three piece wheels described by Flathead Fever are the Firestone R-5° style used on a lot of F-7/8s. Dangerous too, but still in production today for Dayton demountable applications. I’ve never heard of them being used on F-5/6s, certainly possible especially on a M-H, but not on anything smaller. There were two designs of the R-5°, which were determined by rim width. The below cross section diagram shows both. Today the design is called the Accuride 5° Radial Commander. Stu

[KCTA Chris]

Thanks Stu. I may have read a letter or article you wrote that first got me concerned. Im pared for a month or so for some other updates but have started looking for the dodge RV wheels to replace. At least the fronts. Thanks guys for all the input helping us new guys.

[truckdog62563]

The outer rear duals are the most dangerous positions on the truck because, if a failure occurs, those two side rings will escape outward away from the truck. The fronts and inner duals will blow inward toward the truck. Damaging to the truck, for sure, but not risking human or other property damage.

On a related thread over on FTE last night our friend Josh Madsen told us that he has two available sets of the motor home type 19.5” Budd 89340s. Below is a link to that thread. Stu

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...1-2-ton-2.html

[Marv]

Originally Posted by junk yard kid

One of my employees was about to fill one up with air. The forman told him to use the cage. Since this guy was an idiot he leaned the tire against the cage and climbed inside the cage.

It worked didn't it? LOL