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01-19-2021, 01:52 AM | #1 |
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1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.
Hi. I've decided my 1961 Monterey with the 352 is finally going to get it's cracked pass. side exhaust manifold replaced. I find manifolds online that supposedly will fit my car...and other early 60's/late 50's applications, but none of them have the same casting number as mine. My current (cracked manifold) casting number is 5751204, which doesn't seem to fit the typical Ford numbering scheme ("C" prefix, etc.)
-How much should I pay attention to the casting number? -Are all pass. side manifolds for 352's from that era going to fit my car? -My current unit has a heat actuated flapper valve. One of the used ones I'm looking at doesn't have a flapper valve. Would that be a problem using a manifold without a flapper valve on my car? |
01-19-2021, 06:47 AM | #2 |
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Re: 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.
you dont need the flapper if your only driving in warm weather.early manifolds used a flat exhaust pipe gasket.later used a doenut.you can tell by looking im not sure when the change took place.
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01-19-2021, 08:21 AM | #3 | |
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Re: 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.
Quote:
You want an exact match regarding the heat riser valve as if you change the manifold outlet design, you will most likely have to have the exhaust inlet pipe redone. 1961 MERC 352 2V?
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***** "My 57 A/T Only Has Two Speeds" I had the same problem with a Powerglide ... no matter how hard I tried, I could NOT get that thing to shift into 3rd. - FACETIOUS - FUNK & WAGNALLS - 1: joking or jesting often inappropriately : waggish just being facetious 2: meant to be humorous or funny : not serious a facetious remark |
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01-19-2021, 09:56 AM | #4 | |||
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Re: 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.
Let me try this again as I did not answer all the questions in the first reply-
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I do not have access to my 1960-64 LM MPC but the FORD MPC shows C3SZ 9430-A for the FORD application. MERC of this period was an exact duplicate usually. The PN shown is a SERVICE PN and not an ENGINEERING NO.
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***** "My 57 A/T Only Has Two Speeds" I had the same problem with a Powerglide ... no matter how hard I tried, I could NOT get that thing to shift into 3rd. - FACETIOUS - FUNK & WAGNALLS - 1: joking or jesting often inappropriately : waggish just being facetious 2: meant to be humorous or funny : not serious a facetious remark |
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01-19-2021, 10:55 PM | #5 |
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Re: 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.
Are the exhaust outlet flanges flat or tapered to use a 'donut' spacer/gasket? The C3SZ manifolds used the tapered/'donut' spacer while earlier ones typically were flat.
As for the engineering number you found, to confirm what Kultulz sez, those were used '58-early '60: while researching part numbers for Vintage Thunderbird Club International's 1958-1960 Original Factory Specifications manual 15 years ago this drove me nuts!! Thankfully I have a copy of the Master Cross-Reference Parts Catalog with the 7-digit all-number engineering numbers and corresponding Parts & Accessories (P&A) prefix-basic number-suffix ID numbers to compare against. What I found, if I remember correctly, was that the last digit of the engineering/production casting number might be off by 1 or 2 numbers compared to the service part's P&A and corresponding engineering number.
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Alan H. Tast AIA, LEED AP BD+C Technical Director/Past President-Editor-Publications Director, Vintage Thunderbird Club Int'l. (VTCI) http://www.vintagethunderbirdclub.net Author, "Thunderbird 1955-1966" & "Thunderbird 50 Years" 35+ year member, Crown Victoria Ass'n. Last edited by alt63bird; 01-23-2021 at 01:49 PM. |
01-20-2021, 04:49 AM | #6 |
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Re: 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.
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01-20-2021, 09:16 AM | #7 | |
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Re: 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.
Quote:
... you have what ... ? Where in the world did you come across them? Can you show the PRINT DATE (quarter -year) of the MPC and CROSS-REFERENCE?
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***** "My 57 A/T Only Has Two Speeds" I had the same problem with a Powerglide ... no matter how hard I tried, I could NOT get that thing to shift into 3rd. - FACETIOUS - FUNK & WAGNALLS - 1: joking or jesting often inappropriately : waggish just being facetious 2: meant to be humorous or funny : not serious a facetious remark |
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01-20-2021, 11:02 AM | #8 |
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Re: 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.
I think .... misnomer ... that it began approximately 1962/ and progressed from there. RS w/ HEAT RISER VALVE used flat flange and LS used donut.
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***** "My 57 A/T Only Has Two Speeds" I had the same problem with a Powerglide ... no matter how hard I tried, I could NOT get that thing to shift into 3rd. - FACETIOUS - FUNK & WAGNALLS - 1: joking or jesting often inappropriately : waggish just being facetious 2: meant to be humorous or funny : not serious a facetious remark |
01-20-2021, 04:33 PM | #9 |
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Re: 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.
Thanks for the replies everyone. I went up and checked yesterday and it has flat gaskets rather than the donut. I did exhaust work since I've owned the car, so you think I'd remember that stuff, but...oh well.
I don't know if the heat riser valve (thanks KULTULZ) is working, but I think I'll probably just get a spacer from Macs and call it good, as I hardly ever drive the car in winter. The riser tube coming from the manifold broke a long time ago...before I bought the car. I put a manual choke on it to replace the automatic thermal choke, but I think I'm going to put an electric choke from Mike's Carb Parts. It's solid state, I think. I put one on my T-Bird and it works pretty slick. The kit has you cap of that tube. My car was made in late 1960, so I think that's probably the correct casting number on the manifold, based on what you guys say. My main concern is I definitely want the new manifold to connect with existing exhaust system, which is fairly new (single exhaust.) Did different manifolds have different outlets that came down at different angles? I'm looking at a used manifold that the seller SAYS would work on a '61 Merc., but the prefix on the casting # is "C6......", which, as I understand it, would be for a car from 1966, or thereabouts. It MAY work on my car, but the number is C6AE9430A so I can't know for sure. My car is a "survivor" original, but I'm not so anal about it that casting numbers have to be exact. I'll look for one of those manuals KULTULZ mentioned.Oh, two more questions: The seller says the the cylinder head mating surface of the manifold has been resurfaced, which is good. Does the cylinder head exhaust surfaces themselves have to be resurfaced flat? Also, the there was no exhaust manifold gasket from the factory on my car. Would you put one on when replacing the manifold? Last edited by JimNNN; 01-20-2021 at 04:41 PM. |
01-20-2021, 05:11 PM | #10 |
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Re: 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.
The head should be resurfaced. You might get away with using a large flat file to clean the head surface, but, the head must be flat and clean. Do NOT use a gasket between head and manifold.
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01-20-2021, 07:42 PM | #11 | |
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Re: 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.
Quote:
I would leave the C6 alone as it most likely will not fit (IMO). The manual you speak of is very hard to find. With those manuals, you could pinpoint what would and would not work. It is hard to determine how to advise you as the MPC was updated regularly and a replacing PN would be hard to determine without all the needed manuals. There was no gasket used, it was metal to metal except for HP and medium/heavy truck. The manifold will warp way ahead of the head surface. Very unusual. Just make sure the replacement manifold is true and try to use new hardware torqued to factory specs. Under no circumstances use a fiber gasket as these will allow the manifold to move leading to cracking. You might want to remove your manifold to compare with period ones on E-Bay. See Attached -
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***** "My 57 A/T Only Has Two Speeds" I had the same problem with a Powerglide ... no matter how hard I tried, I could NOT get that thing to shift into 3rd. - FACETIOUS - FUNK & WAGNALLS - 1: joking or jesting often inappropriately : waggish just being facetious 2: meant to be humorous or funny : not serious a facetious remark |
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01-20-2021, 11:11 PM | #12 | |
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Re: 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.
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01-20-2021, 11:43 PM | #13 | |
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Re: 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.
Quote:
Great idea, fordor41. When I replace the manifold I'll take a look at it and see how intact it is. At this point my main concern is making sure my exhaust seal is 100%. Regardless, I'll keep the original valve with the car always. LOW AND BEHOLD, I found a manifold on evil bay right now that has the exact same casting number as my original! 5751204 It wasn't exactly cheap, but it looks to be in very good condition, and has no cracks according to the seller - who has a very high rating over 40k + feedback. I went ahead and ordered it. There's a 30 day return policy with this seller. Many thanks to Kultulz (especially), alt63bird, estout81 and darrell and anyone else I missed for the much needed help. Another question: Why are the second set of holes back from the front (and presumably the corresponding fasteners) smaller than the others on these manifolds? Also, if I'm going to go with new fasteners for the manifold, what would you recommend? Thanks again. Last edited by JimNNN; 01-20-2021 at 11:56 PM. |
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01-21-2021, 12:14 AM | #14 | |
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Re: 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.
Quote:
Some exhaust manifolds were originally designed to be installed to the head without gaskets. Over-tightening the bolts can crush an add-on gasket unevenly and eventually crack or break the casting. I'm not sure if 'no original gasket' applies to the versions you have but it may be a good thing to know. . Last edited by dmsfrr; 01-21-2021 at 04:45 AM. |
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01-21-2021, 01:03 AM | #15 |
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Re: 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.
1 9 6 3 from what I've witnessed on T-bird 390 manifolds, as the C2SZ versions were flat for the flange-type pipes - I alluded to that in my previous post but wasn't specific about that fact. People also need to be aware that there were differences between Galaxie and T-bird exhaust manifolds in the early '60s, at least for '61. The big difference I've found is that the T-bird manifolds had a threaded opening in the top of the manifolds to accept an eye bolt used with a hook/overhead conveyor line during engine drop at Wixom Assembly, while at least one '61 C1AE manifold I documented had this 'nub' filled in as they used another method.
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Alan H. Tast AIA, LEED AP BD+C Technical Director/Past President-Editor-Publications Director, Vintage Thunderbird Club Int'l. (VTCI) http://www.vintagethunderbirdclub.net Author, "Thunderbird 1955-1966" & "Thunderbird 50 Years" 35+ year member, Crown Victoria Ass'n. Last edited by alt63bird; 01-21-2021 at 01:23 AM. |
01-21-2021, 01:14 AM | #16 |
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Re: 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.
Off the top of my head the MPXR catalog was printed April of '59, and I've been attempting to collect loose-leaf MPCs going back into the late '50s-early '60s in search of change levels that others may have thrown away, along with L-M books and Ford Truck. As for where I found the MPXR book I don't recall as it's been over 20 years since I got it - might have been at Fords@Carlisle in '97 or a local swap meet out here in fly-over country (probably the latter). Give me a few days to dig it up and confirm along with form number - my time and memory's clogged up with a project submittal going out the door on Friday, and I'm still in the office at friggin' midnight!!
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Alan H. Tast AIA, LEED AP BD+C Technical Director/Past President-Editor-Publications Director, Vintage Thunderbird Club Int'l. (VTCI) http://www.vintagethunderbirdclub.net Author, "Thunderbird 1955-1966" & "Thunderbird 50 Years" 35+ year member, Crown Victoria Ass'n. |
01-21-2021, 01:17 AM | #17 | |
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Re: 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.
Quote:
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Alan H. Tast AIA, LEED AP BD+C Technical Director/Past President-Editor-Publications Director, Vintage Thunderbird Club Int'l. (VTCI) http://www.vintagethunderbirdclub.net Author, "Thunderbird 1955-1966" & "Thunderbird 50 Years" 35+ year member, Crown Victoria Ass'n. |
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01-21-2021, 02:23 AM | #18 | |
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Re: 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.
Quote:
As for the VALVE, if inoperable you will need to confirm frozen in open position or safety wire in open position. If you remove the pintle shaft you will need to add welds to close the holes. If the valve is still operable, I would just safety wire it to stay open. Leaded gasoline is what disabled them. OH! If you could when you get the manifold, if you could take an overhead shot w/ the CASTING ID and post it here I would appreciate it.
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***** "My 57 A/T Only Has Two Speeds" I had the same problem with a Powerglide ... no matter how hard I tried, I could NOT get that thing to shift into 3rd. - FACETIOUS - FUNK & WAGNALLS - 1: joking or jesting often inappropriately : waggish just being facetious 2: meant to be humorous or funny : not serious a facetious remark |
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01-21-2021, 01:07 PM | #19 | |
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Re: 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.
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Here's a pic from the evil bay ad. The actual numbers on the casting are a slightly smaller size than what's on the original on my car, I think. And in a slightly different location. The other extraneous numbers aren't the same, but I figure that they're some sort of production numbering system. The seller says the paint/coating will burn off. Also, he sells a lot of FE exhaust manifolds on ebay, but noted that that this particular casting number is difficult to find. So I lucked out...but I'm still crossing my fingers that everything will be as needed when it arrives. Here's the pic : Last edited by JimNNN; 01-21-2021 at 01:16 PM. |
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01-21-2021, 03:12 PM | #20 |
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Re: 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.
thank you very much!
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***** "My 57 A/T Only Has Two Speeds" I had the same problem with a Powerglide ... no matter how hard I tried, I could NOT get that thing to shift into 3rd. - FACETIOUS - FUNK & WAGNALLS - 1: joking or jesting often inappropriately : waggish just being facetious 2: meant to be humorous or funny : not serious a facetious remark |
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