Need help 55 Ford brakes

[BRU]

I have a 55 Ford and brake pedal pushes so extremely hard, I have to reef on the pedal just to get medeocor brakes. Has new lines, checked the brake shoes, there all good, the drums are good but pedal is rock hard. I also have a 49 Ford and the pedal is not that way at all. I have never had a pedal push this hard on a Ford that I have owned. I really need your help before Spring gets here. Thanks for all your help.


P.S. Master cylinder is stock and I believe everything else is also. This is not a power brake system.

[Ole Don]

Part of the problem may be the material used in the shoes. The old stuff was better at slowing a car, but the people working with it usually died young. I would contact Master Power Brake and ask.

[scicala]

Does the car pull to one side when braking ?


Sal.

[dmsfrr]

Is the car new to you? Maybe the pivot bolt the pedal hangs on has a problem?
(previous owner replaced it with the wrong kind)

[BRU]

Sal, car does not pull one side or the other, was thinking about going to a 1and1/4 master cylinder, thinking the bigger bore would give more pressure.

P.S. Yes the car is new to me and the car is out of Arizona. I had a 55 Ford in the 60’s and it was a much softer pedal.

Thank you! Appreciate the help!

[V8 Bob]

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You need to find the problem. Going to a larger master bore will increase the pedal force, NOT reduce it. The fluid volume would increase, not the pressure.
First, make sure the pedal works like it should. Dis-connect the push rod and check for full travel without any binding or limitations. Look carefully under the dash for anything that could restrict pedal travel.
If the pedal checks out, the problem could be in a sticking master cylinder, or more commonly a wheel cylinder. Plugged or shot hoses could also be an issue, but don't normally restrict pressure, only retain it.

[Daves55Sedan]

The only time my '55 ever had a hard pedal was when one of those chain brake/muffler shops installed new shoes and adjusted the brakes shoes so tight to the drums, the car would sit still even on a steep incline.
I got about halfway home and realized that it5 was taking waaay more power than it should to get the car moving. Immediately backed off all the brake shoe adjustments when I got home and then it was good to go.

[Grumpy Rick]

My first thought is that perhaps someone only adjusted the bottom adjustment on the drums, not being aware of the old fashioned top adjustment.

I had a T-bird that gave me fits a few years back, and once adjusted per the manual, worked fine.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Daves55Sedan

The only time my '55 ever had a hard pedal was when one of those chain brake/muffler shops installed new shoes and adjusted the brakes shoes so tight to the drums, the car would sit still even on a steep incline.

That is referred to as ON-CAR LINING ARC-GRINDING...

[scicala]

"If the pedal checks out, the problem could be in a sticking master cylinder, or more commonly a wheel cylinder. Plugged or shot hoses could also be an issue, but don't normally restrict pressure, only retain it."




That's why asked if the car pulled left or right during braking. A stuck wheel cylinder would cause that. With no pulling, seems like a problem in the master cylinder might be possible.


Sal

[BRU]

Hi guys, How are ya today? I was unaware of there being an adjustment at the top of the backing plate or shoe. Does any one have a picture or know of a utube video a guy could look at? I appreciate your help! Have a great Ford day!


P.S. We had a couple inches of hail this morning and rain and cold wind in good old central Wisconsin. Suppose to have snow tonight and tomorrow.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by BRU

I was unaware of there being an adjustment at the top of the backing plate or shoe. Does any one have a picture or know of a utube video a guy could look at? I appreciate your help! Have a great Ford day!

There is only the star wheel adjuster the bottom of the shoes.

I think the poster is thinking of the old CHRY cam adjusters or MEDIUM TRUCK shoes.

How long did the car sit? Most likely the entire system is going to have to be gone through and the shoes replaced with QUALITY shoes, not the crap sold through PEP BOYS and others.

NOTE-

If the parts box contains a FORTUNE COOKIE, take it back.

[V8 Bob]

The 49-'53 Fords had an movable anchor that was a "major" adjustment, while the lower star wheel was "minor".
My information states an eccentric was used in '54-'55 on the front brakes only, (along with the star wheel) and requires a special adjustment. I am not familiar with these brakes or the adjustment procedures so the best thing for the OP is to find a'54-'55 service/shop manual, unless someone can provide the necessary info.
My '56 manual shows the Bendix brakes now have no eccentrics or movable anchors, so the '54-'55 brakes are somewhat unique.

[KULTULZ]

Where are you getting your info BOB?

The MPC makes no reference, only the anchor pin.

My interest didn't start until the 54 models and I have never come across that on a FORD of the period (1954-1957).

I have the older FORD SHOP MANUALS but I have to dig them out...

If it is there, I want to know. That is why I am here, to learn and not argue...

[V8 Bob]

KULTULZ,
I have complete manuals covering '49-'51, '56 (and later), but the '52-'55 info is mostly basic brake info Bendix provided that I gathered over the years. My first car was a '54, and I remember the eccentric, just don't remember what the adjustment procedure was. Guess I'll start looking for more shop manuals.

[KULTULZ]

I guess I am going to have to bite the bullet (silver) too and begin digging...

[estout81]

I have a '51 Ford and the brakes require two adjustments. The maintenance manual will tell you how to adjust. I think this procedure is the same for '49-'55. I can tell you from experience that you need to follow the manual. Makes a big difference in the way the brakes work.

[Grumpy Rick]

1955 Ford Shop Manual; page 318, #3. General adjustment is on previous page.

[Hot Rod Reverend]

Look on my marathon blog thread or take a crack at hotrodreverend.com. The post there are all searchable by tags. There should be three adjustments, the star wheel, the eccentric, and the upper anchor pin which is also adjustable and slides up and down in the backing plate.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Hot Rod Reverend

Look on my marathon blog thread or take a crack at hotrodreverend.com. The post there are all searchable by tags. There should be three adjustments, the star wheel, the eccentric, and the upper anchor pin which is also adjustable and slides up and down in the backing plate.

Can you point directly to the info? Your website is a little flashy and confusing (to me).

[54vicky]

on my 54 there is slot in the edge of the drum.it is there for feeler gauge that is used for adjusting also.I seem to recall 10 thou.but CRS affects my memory at times.

[BRU]

Sorry, I forgot to tell you all that I have a car not a truck. THanks for all your help and I am going to check every inch of the line to see if it has a pinch in it and also check the shoes for glazing. I was wondering where you all get good quality shoes and lines?

P.S. You all have a great Ford day!!

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by 54vicky

...on my 54 there is slot in the edge of the drum.it is there for feeler gauge that is used for adjusting also.I seem to recall 10 thou.but CRS affects my memory at times.

Is that slot on the front side of the drum?

You guys are correct, there is an eccentric and moveable anchor pin on the front brakes.. I found my early manuals and the 54 and 55 describes the procedure and also refers you back to the 52 SHOP MANUAL for added info.

It makes sense as the front brakes do the majority of braking and have to be more within tolerance.

As soon as my scanner joins the living I will (hopefully) post the pages.

Now I am not using this as an excuse, but most of my experience began with the '57 model year. I just never got interested in earlier models.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by BRU

Sorry, I forgot to tell you all that I have a car not a truck. THanks for all your help and I am going to check every inch of the line to see if it has a pinch in it and also check the shoes for glazing.

I was wondering where you all get good quality shoes and lines?

P.S. You all have a great Ford day!!

I am going to give you some sites to read and you can decide how you want to go-

https://www.porterfield-brakes.com/index.php

http://brakeperformance.com/brake-drums-and-shoes/

https://ebcbrakes.com/product/oe-quality-brake-shoes/

[Alaska Jim]

My '51 Merc. also has that slot in the drums, and If I remember correctly, .010 is correct. I don't remember for sure, but I think the slot is on the "outside" of the drum. I adjusted the brakes several times in a row using the manual and applied the brake pedal several times after each adjustment to make sure the shoes kept seating in the same spot after each adjustment and kept the correct clearance. I found this method of adjustment in my factory service manual. When I last did a brake job on the Merc. and adjusted the brakes per the manual, I was amazed at how good and solid, and "high" the pedal was. I do not ever remember the brakes being so good, they are excellent and I drive this thing in rush hr. traffic, with no problem in the fast lane ( overdrive ).

[BRU]

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Thanks guys, I will check these things out. I have a Ford manual but it doesn't say anything about having a hard pedal. I have pushed on the pedal with 2 feet and it still won't slide the wheels. I was taught, with car off the ground, to tighten up the adjuster to the wheel won't turn, and then back off adjuster 3 clicks. Also my drums do have the slots in them so I will check the ten thousands and compare them to the 3 clicks. If it's 10 thousands or 15 thousands it's only going to move the pedal a little more or a little less. The part I really don't understand is the hard pedal it's like it won't apply pressure to the wheel cylinders. I drive this car in the rural area but I don't like taking it to bigger towns. Thanks again!

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by BRU

.... I was taught, with car off the ground, to tighten up the adjuster to the wheel won't turn, and then back off adjuster 3 clicks. ....

From the suggestion box... (the way the old guy taught me)
Rotate the wheel/tire at least a full turn in each direction as you tighten the adjusters and it will help keep the shoes centered in the drum, for a more accurate adjustment.
This also helps with spotting warped or out of round drums.
.

[rotorwrench]

The anchor pin "2027" reference is adjustable to better center the shoes in the drums. It really takes two people to adjust centering. One to push the brake and one to loosen & re-tighten the stud or pin. Most Bendix drum brake set ups had this feature. Arcing was also less important with this feature but now and then, the shoes still don't fit the drum well.

The master cylinder piston may be sticky in the bore. Wheel cylinder pistons can get that way too. If you take all the drums off. The pedal should move easily but don't get carried away with pushing the pedal when doing this test.

[Hot Rod Reverend]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

Can you point directly to the info? Your website is a little flashy and confusing (to me).

Not sure what you mean by flashy, but if you go to the home screen simply click on “55 Ford Blog” at the top of the page. When that page loads if you scroll down and look on the right you will see a very large list of words all alphabetized. Click on any word/subject you are interested in and the next page that all of the entries that include the word/subject about the work on my 55 Ford.

The website is powered by wix.com, do let me know if it could be made less confusing. It is one of their templates I am using.

[Daves55Sedan]

I got hold of a '56 Ford car shop manual back in 1973 and been using it for everything except electrical for all repairs on my '55 car & wagon.
The '56 shop manual says that the top anchor pin is non-adjustable and cannot be moved to adjust the brake shoes on page 208. It also says "DO NOT remove the anchor pin from the carrier plate".
The exploded view of the brake backing plate assembly on page 212 shows the anchor pin held in place by a large lock-washer and nut on the backside of the backing plate, which is exactly what I have on my cars. I have seen many other '55 & '56 car brake assemblies and they were all exactly like this.
I have also seen some older models, '51 and 52-54 that had additional adjustment mechanisms besides the bottom star-wheel adjustment, leading me to believe that these shoe positioning adjustments were all discontinued by 1955.

[rotorwrench]

The anchor adjustment was likely deleted for several reasons. For one, folks don't always understand what the intent of the adjustment is plus the procedure may not be followed which could do more harm than good and especially if there is a lot of wear on the brake shoe linings or drums. If a person or persons attempt this adjustment, it should be done when installing newly relined shoes and true turned drums within factory wear limits. Most manufacturer's would recommend this be done by factory trained mechanics only. It is seriously important that the brake system function as intended for obvious reasons.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by BRU

I have a Ford manual but it doesn't say anything about having a hard pedal. I have pushed on the pedal with 2 feet and it still won't slide the wheels.

The first thing my manual(s) list as hard brake pedal diagnosis is old and dried-out lining material(s). And who knows where the lining material was sourced when it was serviced last.

No.2 is freezing/binding of the pedal eccentric.

This is all with no freezing of any hydraulic part. Also, fluid should be changed at a minimum of every two years (IMO) as it draws moisture and leads to nasty things in the system. Just stick your finger into the MC bowl and see what you pull out.

I am still searching through my manuals for all the differing types of brake adjustment(s) within this period and there is much contradictory info, both in the SERVICE MANUAL(S) and the MPC (understandable).

This system(s) seemed to have been phased out somewhere during the '55 model run. Later manuals 53-54-55 refer you back to the 52 MANUAL which describes no eccentrics, just the adjustable anchor pin (while the later manuals do).

I think... ...that this CHINESE FIRE-DRILL SYSTEM was replaced with lining arc-grinding to replace all of this complicated hardware.

Self-Adjusting Kits were available back in the day and might be considered also.

TO BE CONTINUED-

[bobss396]

Glazed shoes can give a hard pedal. Pull the drum, if the linings look shiny, they are glazed. Some shops would cut drums and leave the surface too fine, resulting in a glazed condition.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by V8 Bob

The 49-'53 Fords had an movable anchor that was a "major" adjustment, while the lower star wheel was "minor".

My information states an eccentric was used in '54-'55 on the front brakes only, (along with the star wheel) and requires a special adjustment.

- WE HAVE A WINNER -

Both the 54 and 55 used an eccentric. Previous was adjustable anchor pin. There is a slight design difference (54) from the 55 also-

[Daves55Sedan]

Well...well ! The '56 shop manual does not show the "eccentric" nor does it mention it. But both my '55's have that short round post that holds the back of the primary shoe out when the pedal is released. I did not know that was an adjustable eccentric. By golly, I might be able to get that car to stop one of these days if I get down there and work on that some !

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

Both the 54 and 55 used an eccentric. Previous was adjustable anchor pin.

There is a slight design difference (54) from the 55 also-

Let me go further-

The 54 had the eccentric on the secondary shoe and an adjustable anchor pin. The 55 had the eccentric on the primary show with a fixed anchor pin.

If anyone needs the actual SM pages, I have copied them.

Now, to add to the confusion...

Personally, I would consider adapting 56 SW drum brakes to the earlier models for more effective braking (drum) if you want to keep the car somewhat original and do not want to go disc.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Hot Rod Reverend

Not sure what you mean by flashy, but if you go to the home screen simply click on “55 Ford Blog” at the top of the page. When that page loads if you scroll down and look on the right you will see a very large list of words all alphabetized. Click on any word/subject you are interested in and the next page that all of the entries that include the word/subject about the work on my 55 Ford.

The website is powered by wix.com, do let me know if it could be made less confusing. It is one of their templates I am using.

Sorry I didn't get back to you REVEREND as I did not notice this post...

[Daves55Sedan]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

If anyone needs the actual SM pages, I have copied them.

I decided to see if I could snag the shop manual page right from here and it worked. Here's how I got it.
Right click on the picture and save it as (picname).jpg into the photo folder in your hard drive.
After saving it you can open the picture on windows photo viewer which every windows operating system has and you can read it from there or you can print the page full size from windows photo viewer on your printer.
I got it and it printed out full size so I can insert the sheet into my '56 shop manual to replace that page since I only work on '55's.
Thanx KULTULZ for posting that SM page.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Daves55Sedan

Thanx KULTULZ for posting that SM page.

You are quite welcome. I love learning forgotten factoids on the older cars.

I just wish I was more computer savvy to do all of them fancy city things on my computer...

[54vicky]

checking back I notice no one mentioned removing the brake line from master then trying to apply brakes I would slip a plastic bag over master to catch any spray so it does not get on paint.I feel doing this will show if master is the culprit by that I mean the orifice not being blocked from crud over the years

[Daves55Sedan]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

I just wish I was more computer savvy to do all of them fancy city things on my computer...

Yes I may have emerged from the stone-age somewhat, and they do call this place a city, but I am still just an old hillbilly AND I am goin back to the country. Just teasin you KULTULZ
I probably have more trouble with this computer contraption than you do.

[KULTULZ]

I finally broke down and read through your thread here describing the '55 resto - VERY IMPRESSIVE!

Originally Posted by Hot Rod Reverend;1090842 05-23-2015 POST #120

ORIGINAL THREAD- https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/newre...eply&p=1090842

(TEXT snipped for brevity)

Maybe this would be a good time to talk brakes on a 55/56 Ford. Most guys my age and younger have no idea how to "adjust" their brakes. They are so used to either calipers/pads and self-adjusting drum brakes that all of the other stuff here seems foreign. Most people that wrench on cars can
"do a set of brakes" but there are some things peculiar to 55/56 Fords that I did take a few photos of...



The first thing some folks need to know is that the anchor pin shown above and then her,



is an adjustment feature. If you noticed how the hardware looks when you reinstalled it, it is made in such a way as to slide up and down in the backing plate boss. The reason it has that oblong washer is so that it can slide. You will need a 15/16" wrench to loosen/tighten the nut behind it. Although the shop manual is not very clear the idea is that when installing new brakes you lower the pin as much as possible in its bore. I use a small amount of white lithium grease to help this out. Once you need to adjust your brakes later on and move the pin up you will be glad that it can slide.

There is also an eccentric on the primary shoe. Speaking of the primary shoe, it ALWAYS goes towards the front of the vehicle.



The eccentric is turned by the head of the bolt ON THE BACK SIDE of the backing plate. If you spin it one time you can see where this would tighten the other side of the shoe as the brake linings wear. Of course you have your star adjuster at the bottom also.

Is there anyway that you can post the photos on this site directly as photobucket does not show (to me anyway).

One thing I dislike... the bleed screws are 10 mm and not 3/8" on the last several wheel cylinders I have purchased. What gives? The threads for the mounting and for the brake line are all SAE??? any ideas?

They are made/sourced of CHINESEUM.

Metric bleed screws are the first indication.

[Hot Rod Reverend]

Is there anyway that you can post the photos on this site directly as photobucket does not show (to me anyway).

It is highly unfortunate that Photobucket changed their entire format last year and went from being a free site to host photos third party to a site that charged roughly $400 a year to have a user's photos hosted so that the photos would show up on sites like the FordBarn. If you have Google Chrome, there is a back door fix - many have used this and it works fine and all of the links here remain unbroken.

This thread is a monster - lots of pages, media, and replies. Of course it also has the highest views on this part of the forum by a large margin. At one time I was maintaining THREE separate forum sites like the Ford Barn here so that folks could see the progress on the 55. Since Photobucket wanted triple the amount it would cost me to build my own site on wix.com, and since I would have the chance to post anything and everything I wanted with my own rules, I built hotrodreverend.com. Thousands of hits so far - people must like it I guess.

The way the threads are designed on the Ford Barn would meant that to go back and
"fix" each post I have made the photos would not be placed in order of reading and would all be at the very bottom of each post. Not to mention the time it would take to get all of that done. Ryan owns the Ford Barn and allows us to contribute such as we do. I did go back on a thread on the HAMB in a social forum and "fix" everything - that took weeks to accomplish. When I was done I noticed that of the entire HAMB website - much larger than here, I was 5th in the number of the pieces of Media I had "saved" to the server. Ouch.

thank you for your kind comments by the way, I am always learning myself as you can see.

[KULTULZ]

As usual I have again slurred my URL's...

I did not mean all photos as that would be a major undertaking. All I want to see (if possible) is your final front brake install. The SHOP MANUAL ILL is not that detailed.

[Hot Rod Reverend]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

As usual I have again slurred my URL's...

I did not mean all photos as that would be a major undertaking. All I want to see (if possible) is your final front brake install. The SHOP MANUAL ILL is not that detailed.

no problem here you go...

[Daves55Sedan]

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HRR! What's this I think I see here where you ground a little bit off the web of that primary brake shoe instead of turning the eccentric to adjust the shoes to fit properly with the brake drum. That's cheating!
Oh and I see you removed the top anchor pin and re-installed it. The shop manual says don't touch it, so I feared pandora's box would be open if I tried to do that so I left it alone.
You've got it so pretty in there, it's a shame you need to put the brake drum back on. But maybe you ought to slap a coat of shellac or something on those bare cast iron wheel cylinders to help prevent them from rusting. Just kidding about all this !

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

As usual I have again slurred my URL's...

I did not mean all photos as that would be a major undertaking. All I want to see (if possible) is your final front brake install. The SHOP MANUAL ILL is not that detailed.

Originally Posted by Hot Rod Reverend

no problem here you go...

THANX! for taking the time and effort.

Really appreciated...

[KULTULZ]

RELATED AND INFORMATIVE URL- https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=219281

[Hot Rod Reverend]

Originally Posted by Daves55Sedan

HRR! What's this I think I see here where you ground a little bit off the web of that primary brake shoe instead of turning the eccentric to adjust the shoes to fit properly with the brake drum. That's cheating!
Oh and I see you removed the top anchor pin and re-installed it. The shop manual says don't touch it, so I feared pandora's box would be open if I tried to do that so I left it alone.
You've got it so pretty in there, it's a shame you need to put the brake drum back on. But maybe you ought to slap a coat of shellac or something on those bare cast iron wheel cylinders to help prevent them from rusting. Just kidding about all this !

Oh my!

As you can tell on some of this work I am a detail guy. And we all know what it will look like once this thing is back on the road - cars that are driven and used have parts and pieces that look they are worked. But I figure for the brakes there is nothing more important than to be as clean as you can given the sensitivity to safety we should have.

On with the resto...

[KULTULZ]

... sigh ...

Now I am wondering if the front brake drum(s) have the adjustment check slot and if aftermarket replacements come with the slot?

[Daves55Sedan]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

... sigh ...

Now I am wondering if the front brake drum(s) have the adjustment check slot and if aftermarket replacements come with the slot?

My original drums have the slot, but I just looked at the photo of the new drums in the Concours catalog $109.95, whew. They do not appear to have the slot. Macs wants $141.79 for a front drum. That's a heart attack.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Daves55Sedan

My original drums have the slot, but I just looked at the photo of the new drums in the Concours catalog $109.95, whew. They do not appear to have the slot.

Macs wants $141.79 for a front drum. That's a heart attack.

Now is that hub and drum or just drum?

The really bad part (other than being an exact replacement) is that it will be CHINESEIUM...

[Daves55Sedan]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

Now is that hub and drum or just drum? The really bad part (other than being an exact replacement) is that it will be CHINESEIUM...

The front drums do not include the hub, but Concours offers a new hub complete with bearings, grease seal and dust cap for the additional price of $$$$199.95. BTW, for the 55/56 drums it says they are made in the USA

[KULTULZ]

-ADDENDUM-

Fr. For Additional Info

-BRAKE CAM SPRING

B4A 2049-A - 1954 FORD Pass Car
B4A 2049-B - 1954 SW - SD
B5A 2049-B - 1955 Pass Car and BIRD


EDIT -


Also ILL of 1955 eccentric assy -

[KULTULZ]

Another Interesting TECH Thread-


- http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Topic140989-1.aspx

[justold]

Originally Posted by BRU

I have a 55 Ford and brake pedal pushes so extremely hard, I have to reef on the pedal just to get medeocor brakes. Has new lines, checked the brake shoes, there all good, the drums are good but pedal is rock hard. I also have a 49 Ford and the pedal is not that way at all. I have never had a pedal push this hard on a Ford that I have owned. I really need your help before Spring gets here. Thanks for all your help.


P.S. Master cylinder is stock and I believe everything else is also. This is not a power brake system.

No one has mentioned this , are the brake shoes installed correctly ? The brakes on fords from 1949 on [correct me if I'm wrong ]are self energizing ,short shoe front .