ZINC additives and hardened valve seats necessary?

[jonf]

I'm rebuilding a pretty much stock 59AB and I have just two questions (so far).

1. With a mild regrind cam and new lifters and stock springs, should I use a zinc additive for break in?

2. Should I installed hardened valve seats?

[Kurt in NJ]

The factory installed hardened seats

adding additives to some oils can make them less---the oils additive package can clash with additional additives

the low valve spring pressure doesn't load the lifter/cam interface like modern OHV engine

[Seth Swoboda]

Just use Shell Rotella 15W-40 oil and you will be fine.

[ford38v8]

Seth, They quietly took it out of Rotella too, as I'm told.

[Mike51Merc]

Originally Posted by ford38v8

Seth, They quietly took it out of Rotella too, as I'm told.

Here we go with the "oil wars" again.
My opinion, based on as much as I could read on the subject:
Zinc is about cams and lifters, not valve seats (that's the unleaded gas argument).
Flatheads have low valve spring pressures.
Zinc is needed most in overhead valve engines with high spring pressures.
Rotella removed some zinc, but not all of it.
Most antique cars drive less than 2000 miles/year.
It doesn't hurt to have added zinc, it might be catastrophic to have no zinc.

Personally, I run Rotella T (diesel formula) and just for kicks and giggles, I add a pint of STP oil treatment (the blue bottle has zinc).

For break-in I'd use a cam manufacturers' assembly lube and break-in oil additive.

[GOSFAST]

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If the original block has no seat inserts from Ford we generally install at least 8 for the exhaust valves. The intakes aren't really necessary. I do get some customers that want both however.

With respect to the break-in lubes, we have NOT varied from the days gone by for the cam lube, ALL flat-tappet cams get strictly broken in with "moly", and the rest of the build, mainly rings, is broken in with some "dedicated" break-in oil. There are numerous brands, one we use in particular is the "Brad-Penn" line. This oil is based on the original "Kendall" formula from the Pa. refineries! It is specially formulated for the "break-in" period only. There are others, Lucas, etc.

We actually supply a number of shops in the area with small containers of the "moly" lube, many cam vendors no longer supply this item.

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Here's a shot of some "Brad-Penn" 30 wt, it comes an various weights. Also a shot of machining for the valve seat inserts using a Winona-PH2000 cylinder head machine. Last shot of the Lubriplate ass'y lube we use on the brgs and the containers of "moly" for the cam lobes and lifter bases.

[corvette8n]

Hemmings sells it own zinc rich brand online $54.00 for 6 qts., it ain't cheap.

[JSeery]

Zinc additives are available from some cam vendors if you want it. You can buy in individually or in 12 packs.

[fordor41]

I use mobil 1 and zinc additive. Mine is an OHV but $14 every 3000 miles for zinc isn't going to break me so why take a chance.

[JSeery]

"$14 every 3000 miles for zinc isn't going to break me..."

And I believe that the is single quantity price, think I purchased my last case of 12 for around $8 each.

[Ol' Ron]

might as well jump in. I use 5-20 oil in a rebuilt engine , I believe in hardened seats in the exhaust and valve rotators for stock and mild cams. I think too much zink is bad , I think 15-40 oil is bad. But that's just my opinion. The beauty of the Flathead is: it works.

[VeryTangled]

Hi Everyone, I found this post/photo made by FordBarn member Fordors in this thread:

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...=1#post1166742 Post #21

"How about this display from the 1934 edition of the Century of Progress, Tony? As I mentioned here before Henry dragged his feet and didn't go to Chicago in 1933; but in 1934 this complete Fordor was displayed in cabinets for all to see. The series of photos show everything, for example a lower seat spring assembly was broken down to individual pieces, the radiator as tubes and plates (for the fins) etc. Those were the days! "

Notice the valve seats in the photo!

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

might as well jump in. I use 5-20 oil in a rebuilt engine , I believe in hardened seats in the exhaust and valve rotators for stock and mild cams. I think too much zink is bad , I think 15-40 oil is bad. But that's just my opinion. The beauty of the Flathead is: it works.

I agree, but the correct amount of zinc is good, to much zinc is bad. About like everything else in life. I also agree with using the lower weight oils.

[prpmmp]

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

might as well jump in. I use 5-20 oil in a rebuilt engine , I believe in hardened seats in the exhaust and valve rotators for stock and mild cams. I think too much zink is bad , I think 15-40 oil is bad. But that's just my opinion. The beauty of the Flathead is: it works.

Ol' Ron has built more flatheads than Carter has liver pills so if he said to run apple juice in my flathead then apple juice it is!!!Pete

[GOSFAST]

If any of the oils has "Racing" included on the labels it has all the additives already included.

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. If it doesn't specifically state "Racing" then it does not contain all the additives. See the photo below here. The "Brad-Penn" below is for break-in ONLY, they do have race oils also!

[Ralph Moore]

Originally Posted by VeryTangled

Hi Everyone, I found this post/photo made by FordBarn member Fordors in this thread:

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...=1#post1166742 Post #21

"How about this display from the 1934 edition of the Century of Progress, Tony? As I mentioned here before Henry dragged his feet and didn't go to Chicago in 1933; but in 1934 this complete Fordor was displayed in cabinets for all to see. The series of photos show everything, for example a lower seat spring assembly was broken down to individual pieces, the radiator as tubes and plates (for the fins) etc. Those were the days! "

Notice the valve seats in the photo!

That is a cool display! I'd love to have that cutaway flathead in my shop too!

[4t8v8]

I have used Mobil Delvac 1300 15W-40 in my flatheads and ovh's for years. Never a problem. Soooo - will just keep using it.

[supereal]

At our shop we replace all valve seats during rebuilding because almost always the original, and some replacement, seats are so worn that there is not enough material left to regrind them.

[40 Deluxe]

Back in the '50's and early '60's, when flatheads were starting to show their age, it was standard procedure to use plain non-detergent oil for break-in ("to seat the rings"). No zinc in that oil! This oil was used whether the job was a backyard re-ring job or a Ford Authorized Rebuilt complete engine. I never heard of or saw a flat cam from using this oil! Factory fill on new cars may also have been non-detergent; not sure about this. Old leaky oil burners got fed the cheapest oil available and never flattened their cams, either.

[Ol' Ron]

It's obvious 15-40 works, but there must be a reason you use it in stead of 10-30 as recommended by the factory. Just because it works, doesn't mean it's right. The reason I use 5-20 is because it makes the bearings run cooler, as more oil passes through them