Lets talk leakless water pumps!

[Jason in TX]

Yeah. I added the Jim Rupert Original and XD pumps in the first post so that the information can all be together.

[callcoy]

Jason;
Thank you for post on leak less water pumps, I am sure it helped many people better understand their options.
Although a responder mentioned that a supplier has a kit available for creating/assembling a leak less pump, it should be pointed out that the individual components to do this are available from at least two of the major suppliers. On several occasions I have purchased parts to do this for approx. $70.00. To complete a pump, one must have access to a hyd. press and be able to read a mike and telescoping gauges or calipers. On the other hand, I have yet to find a pump housing that has bores that are oversize.
While I have noted that some of the posters have concerns about side loading the front bearing excessively with an alternator and maybe an AC compressor. The bearing shown in your Snyder’s photos, that’s combined, with the shaft, I believe is the same type and quality as the bearing assembly used in our modern cars. Only one bearing is used in our daily drivers and depending of the drive belt setup it could be included with not only the water pump but an alternator, an AC compressor. a power steering pump and maybe a smog pump. Granted in my case it is a serpentine belt, but I do have an old Chevy. pick up that has all of this and has to do it with two v-belts off the water pump. We have an advantage with our A’s, in that with a leak less set up we have the same bearing up front plus a bushing or bearing in the rear. This is a much stronger set up then any modern car and I have run for over 200,000 miles on a modern pump.
There was also some concern about using a needle bearing in our pumps, the concern is very valid if we were using the 80 year old type bearings found in the original pump. However, as stated above the bearing in use is not a needle design and has been used in millions of automobiles; if it was prone to failure the mfg’s would have stopped using it. I prefer to use a needle bearing in the rear instead of the brass bushing; the front bearing takes almost the entire side load. This set up is great for those who put a great deal of miles on their cars; it is durable and long lasting. However it is the wrong approach for those that will have their car fine point judged, those individuals should just use the modern bearing and shaft in the front and the brass bushing with a simulated packing gland.
Another poster noted that his shaft was undercut by the rear seal. This if it was mine would be reported to the supplier for replacement or refund. If the manufacturer is producing a product that is defective, the retailer supplier should demand a change in the product. If the supplier fails to do this, the visitors to the “Barn” will do their best to straighten him out.

[kenparker]

I just finished having "freon" put in my A/C on the S/W fordor. While cleaning up and putting up we discovered one of the waterpump housing to block bolts was loose. Tdhten that up and then discovered the Packing Nut Seal was loose and spinning on the shaft. It had come completely out of the Packing Nut. Stuffed it back in the front of the Packing Nut and drove home. The seal on the rear of the Rear Bushing is holding coolant for now, but the pump has to come out of there for repair or replacement.

This is a KP built water pump. Lip seal in the Packing Nut: Lip seal in the rear of the rear brass bushing: O Ring seal arond outside of Rear brass Bushing: and O ring between Packing Nut and Water Pump Housing. The front end has the Pressed on needel bearing. All of the parts came from either Berts or Snyder.

[Dick So. Cal.]

I have leakless waterpumps on both my cars. Because I think the rear seal is a knife-edged neoprene seal, it will over time wear out because of lack of lubricant. (I have seen shafts with grooves in them, too). So what I do and it seems to work is to put a drop of oil from the dipstick on the shaft where it enters the rear part of the pump. I do the same to front whether it needs it or not. I figure it can't hurt and all it can do is help. So far, so good.

Dick

[Franchise_24]

After driving home one day from a Club Meet and not realizing that my crappy pump was leaking and I blew the head gasket, I decided to get the leakless pump from Snyders that requires no grease. It's been almost a year now and it is running perfect and I have no complaints. One less thing to worry about while using my car.

[30Tudor]

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We tried the Modern Bearing and Sleeve kit from Brattons. It was very finicky and frustrating to install. I went through 2 kits trying to get one installed because we damaged the sleeve when we pushed it into the bearing cartridge. The fit was really tight (yes we did measure it up before the installation). We were also worried about the locktite used to put the sleeve on the shaft getting into the bearing when we assembled it. It ran well on the car but I definately would not recommend it. You get what you pay for.

The Modern Pump kit from Synders is the way to go. It was really easy to assemble and so far it has worked well on the car.

MODERN BEARING AND SLEEVEFor Year(s): 28-34

This set has a hardened sleeve which you press on your W.P. shaft (your shaft must be .625 diam.). The matching internal needle bearings roll on the hardened sleeve. The tolerance on this set is better than the original giving a smoother roll and less vibration. If using an alternator, this bearing will withstand the additional load better than the stock bearing. This set is the same size as the original bearing and sleeve. Instructions included.





Modern Pump Kit

This kit will convert your pump housing to a modern type. Shaft has a sealed bearing insert that presses into front of pump, and sealed pack nut has built in rear bushing that presses into the...

[Kevin in NJ]

You know I have been considering what I would want to put on my car.

The problem I am running into is all these leak less pumps is the number of people talking of failures. One of the first experiences with leak less was one that the seal went and the car had to be towed home because the original seal did not function. Seems to me any leak less units you buy you want to consider one you can seal normally too.

What makes it real hard for me to consider the leak less is my brothers coupe. The water pump is untouched since 1970 other than adding packing. Many years and many thousands of miles later all it needs is some grease and the occasional tightening of the seal.

Something to keep in mind. I believe on Vince Falter's website he talks about the shaft diameters. The original shafts were ground to a specific size. Modern replacements are not ground shafts and may be slightly smaller in diameter if I recall correctly.

While I am not saying you should go to the original type. I am going to look hard at the options for a modern seal that also works with the original seal. I am reading the comments and comparisons with interest. I am just pointing out the original is not really that bad.

[Clydes 31 P/U]

I had a leaky "leakless" waterpump on a day trip a few years ago, as I tend to carry more tools and parts than would seem normal I just backed off the packing nut took some of my pump packing out of the tool box greased it up, put it on tightened it up, added some water and was back on the road in twenty minutes. Who says old and new can't get along.

[Tom Wesenberg]

I agree with Kevin. I rebuilt my pump in 1995 and first installed it about 8 years ago. I rebuilt it completely stock (except for the locking collar) and it hasn't leaked a drop in the 8 years I've been running it. Just be sure to add grease around the LEAD packing rings as you assemble it, then adjust the brass nut a couple times during the first few days of running. I haven't adjusted the nut since then and have only greased the rear bushing twice in the past 8 years. I also don't run my generator belt too tight. I also run 50% antifreeze, which helps to lubricate the thrust washer next to the impellor.

The pumps I've rebuilt since then I've been using the rear brass bushing with the double lip seal on the rear of the bushing, as shown in #1 of this post. This will help to keep any grease from entering the coolant. Pack grease in the V of the double lip seal when you install it.

Like Kevin, I've heard too many reports of bad bearings and leaking pumps that are claimed to be "leakless". I'm not sold on them, but then what do I know.......I still like generators and stock headlights over alternators and halogen bulbs!

[Kurt in NJ]

I like the leakless pumps ,they are a good source of original parts ---the leftover parts from a conversion have been in my stock pump for the last 30 years ---the car they came from has had 3 leakless pump replacements in the same time.

[Rex_A_Lott]

I found this thread in a search, and yes I realize its 3 years old. How much of this is still valid? The reason I ask is I bought a replacement shaft with a front bearing already pressed on and I used it, but when I tried to buy another to build a spare up, I found out this particular option is no longer available.
I bought a leakless about 9 years ago, and it was great until the lip seals wore out and so that is why I am going down this road again. I'll try to post some pics of that assembly later.
I chose this thread because it seemed to be one of the most comprhensive ones I'd found. Thanks to all who contributed the first time around.

[Tom Wesenberg]

I still stand by what I said in post #49. Sure doesn't seem like it's been two years ago already.

[glenn in camino]

My most leakless water pump is an aftermarket pump that's filled with waterproof grease. No leaks in 10 years.

[columbiA]

I think people nowadays are so used to driving cars that are almost maintenence free that they try to get there A,s the same way.Part of the A experience is doing routine maint on the car.In the 50,s I put 75,000 miles on my A in 8 years & the water pump was still not leaking when I sold the car.When I rebuild a pump, I use the cheap mild steel shaft & original style bearing,but use the rear bushing with the added seal.Ive never had a pump failure in 60 years.I dont get an oily rad because The rear bushing only gets a tiny amount of grease every 1,000 miles.

[Rex_A_Lott]

I hope you guys dont feel I'm beating a dead horse here, just wanted to post what I'd found and the pics that I took last week.

A leakless rear bushing, showing the two lip seals, back-to-back, the roller bearing and the front lip seal. This one had a place for the bearing to take grease but the bushing wasnt drilled and the grease fitting was a dummy. Its a moot point anyway, the seals failed before the bearing did from lack of grease.


The shaft where the rear seal rode. After it was cleaned up you could see and feel the ridges worn by the lip seals. I tried to take a pic, but all you could see was the glare.

[JD 1931]

bought a leakless kit 7 yrs ago for under $50 ,works great.........

[Rex_A_Lott]

The stock all-bronze bushing on the left and what they sell as a replacement on the right.


Same thing, end view. Not solid bronze, just a couple of smaller bushings pressed in.

[Rex_A_Lott]

The part that I like the best. The shaft with the two roller bearings that located the shaft and prevents the end thrust from banging on the head.


The housing end view, showing the pressed in sleeve that holds the roller bearings.

[glenn in camino]

My only leakless water pump is an aftermarket one that does not have a packing nut. The space where the packing nut usually goes is a closed bottom cavity with a removable screwed on cover. That space gets filled with waterproof wheel bearing grease. The one I have on my deluxe delivery has been in use for about 8 years, and about 8-10 thousand miles, and hasn't leaked a drop.

[Marshall57]

I too am looking to get a leakless water pump, I was looking at the ones listed in this thread and liked the one from Mike's, hit the link to look at it and it doesn't seem to be listed anymore. They do have one for $120 that is a little different "needs grease". Does anyone know if the one shown above is still offered or has it been removed?