Flathead Question

[Timstruck]

Last fall I purchased a 1936 Pickup. I do not know much about the history but the frame VIN checks out as a '36 and the transmission VIN matches the frame.

A few days ago my son and I started tearing down the engine and I am confused. I'm hoping someone can tell me what it is that I have.

The 21 stud heads are cast iron and are the early type with the water pumps on the front. The block is the mystery. It has the crab style distributor which from my research is for '42-'48 blocks but then those would have 24 stud heads. Also note in the pictures that the block has provision for water pumps in the block.

Is it possible that someone in the past has installed the later distributor? Are the distributors interchangeable through the years?

Sorry, lots of questions...any insight is appreciated.

Tim

[JSeery]

Easy to interchange the distributors. In fact most of the external components can be interchanged between different years.

[rustythumb]

block must be '37 or early '38.

[Timstruck]

Originally Posted by JSeery

Easy to interchange the distributors. In fact most of the external components can be interchanged between different years.

Ok, good to know...thanks.

[Tinker]

Nice flathead. Yep 37, early 38. Waterpump blockoffs. Which means you could also run the later block water pumps if you can find a good pair of 37' 21 heads.

Depending on where you want to go with it, you have a decent 221 with some early 40's changes.

[Timstruck]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Originally Posted by rustythumb

block must be '37 or early '38.

So, if ordering parts, should I order for the later years or are the water pumps the only change from 36?

[Timstruck]

Originally Posted by Tinker

Nice flathead. Yep 37, early 38. Waterpump blockoffs.

Depending on where you want to go with it, you have a decent 221 with some early 40's changes.

What do you mean by "early 40's changes"?

[Tinker]

Crab distributor and timing plate, which is a great dizzy. Some headers which might actually be 50s aftermarket. They look like Reds from the small pictures.

I'd slow down before ordering parts, you have a lot to think about before that. It might run great as it sits. Have you tried to fire it?

Or maybe you want to go full rebuild?

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by Timstruck

So, if ordering parts, should I order for the later years or are the water pumps the only change from 36?

What kind of parts are you referring to? Internal engine parts would be for the block you have. External parts could be any year that would bolt up. It is going to depend on what you are wanting to archive. If you are wanting it to be original to the year of the body/frame then that would be the year parts you want to use. It you are wanting to up grade different components, than that is what you are going to need. Clear as mud?

[Tinker]

Certainly looks like a winner! Could be a nice motor for you.

[Timstruck]

It actually ran decent but the compression was low on a couple cylinders. Turns out the base of a couple studs had rusted and had lifted the head gasket causing low compression. We plan to take the heads to get them lightly surfaced. The studs need to be replaced and I need to research how to remove them without snapping them off in the block. We are also going to replace the intake manifold and rebuild the fuel pump. So, not a major rebuild.

The other thing I want to do is send the distributor out for a rebuild because it seems crazy complicated.

[Tinker]

Good guy good rep.
http://www.bubbasignition.com/about-us.html

You might be able to mill a little off the heads for compress. Maybe they have already been.

Skip rebuilds the waterpumps also. Good service. My 36 has a 37 motor with headpumps. Mine worked fine so no rebuild.

Sounds like a good plan you have going. Also on my 36 I had what seemed like a bad motor issue, compression 20lbs on one cylinder and ran bad. Turned out to be a burn valve. $7 complete valve setup from a guy here and I've been driving it from 3 yrs now. Not a barnburner but I drive it almost daily in summer.

Enjoy!

[Timstruck]

I guess moving the water pumps up to the block would be better, but I don't believe it would work with the '36 radiator. Trying to keep things stock.

[Tinker]

Another tidbit about the 37 motor, you have cam bearings (which I think stopped in 35') and insert crank bearings. About mid 36 they went from babbitt bearings to inserts. 36lb motors.

When you pull the intake good chance you have adjustable lifters.

[Tinker]

I run headpumps on my 36 coupe. It doesn't overheat.

With the heads off now take a long screwdriver or coathanger and flush out the water jackets. Expectantly in the rear of the block. If there is any casting sand left you can flush it out. Will make a world of difference later.

If it's been sitting compression might go up just by running it also.

Depends how deep ya want to go, when you remove the oil pan to clean it out, you can check bearings and piston wall clearances.

But by the looks of what you've done already and the 60s mag wheel in the background of one picture, you no stranger to tearing into something.

[JSeery]

When rebuilding fuel related components keep in mind current fuel. Need to be sure components are ethanol compatible.

[Tinker]

Originally Posted by Timstruck

It actually ran decent but the compression was low on a couple cylinders. Turns out the base of a couple studs had rusted and had lifted the head gasket causing low compression. We plan to take the heads to get them lightly surfaced. The studs need to be replaced and I need to research how to remove them without snapping them off in the block. We are also going to replace the intake manifold and rebuild the fuel pump. So, not a major rebuild.

The other thing I want to do is send the distributor out for a rebuild because it seems crazy complicated.

You might find a map torch and some pb blaster or even better kroll over a few days will make the studs twist right out. Patience. Heat/spray repeat a couple days. Beats welding a nut and trying to get one that's broken or drilling and tap.

[Talkwrench]

Find some 77E heads and use pumps in block if you can ..

[Timstruck]

Originally Posted by Tinker

When you pull the intake good chance you have adjustable lifters.

I will check...thanks for the tip

[Timstruck]

Originally Posted by Tinker

If it's been sitting compression might go up just by running it also

We’ve been yard driving it for a few months...

[JSeery]

Removing head studs can be a real challenge, there are several past threads on different methods used. Breaking a stud off in the block is not the end of the world, there are also several methods to remove them.

[Timstruck]

Originally Posted by Tinker

But by the looks of what you've done already and the 60s mag wheel in the background of one picture, you no stranger to tearing into something.

No, two Mustangs, a Dodge Charger, WW2 Jeep...but this is my first flathead and it’s a whole different animal...!

[JSeery]

Might want to study up on them, there are several good publications available.

[Timstruck]

Originally Posted by Tinker

You might find a map torch and some pb blaster or even better kroll over a few days will make the studs twist right out. Patience. Heat/spray repeat a couple days. Beats welding a nut and trying to get one that's broken or drilling and tap.

Thanks. I’ve been reading some posts on here about this. I have an acetylene torch so no problem heating things up. I’m going to give the wax method a try...

[Timstruck]

Originally Posted by JSeery

Might want to study up on them, there are several good publications available.

Thanks. I plan to do this. The transmission had some water in it. We got it freed up and loose. Yard drives good but any recommendations on rebuilding? I know there’s a good book on this but looking for advice. Any special 80 year old tools required if I did this myself?

[JSeery]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

And you may already know this, but do NOT use a tap to clean up the threads in the block after you remove the studs. It is taped for a tight fit and a tap will open the threads up. You can use a thread chaser or just grind a slot in a stud and use it to clean the threads up.

[richard crow]

1937 eng best flat head ford every made.

[flatjack9]

Use a torque wrench and don't exceed 70 ft' lb. Heat the block around the stud, quench the stud with a cold water rag and have a go at it. Sometimes tightening the stud slightly will break them loose. You can soak them with penetrant for a year and still not get anywhere.

[Mike in AZ]

If you go with the block mounted water pumps, it shouldn't change fan position relative to radiator. But you would have to go later heads than you have. And isn't your Go Devil engine in the Jeep a flathead? Lol. Welcome to Ford flathead V-8 fun. Mike

[Ggmac]

Do you have steel Pistons in it ? Flat or domed , Domed probably, std bore ?

[Timstruck]

Originally Posted by Mike in AZ

If you go with the block mounted water pumps, it shouldn't change fan position relative to radiator.

My concern with using the block water pumps is with the '36 radiator. Would the top hose connections line up with a different head?

[Tinker]

I believe there is a hose created for a 59a in the 36 what would be just fine as they are both mid head outputs. Depends on the look your going for and how much it matters. You'll probably be just fine with the head pumps, just hard to locate good pumps, but you already have them. skip or you can rebuild them easy enough, if they really need it (check fins, bearings, and leaks).


Old round-d-round guy told me you can flip the heads on the early fords and run the exit out the back. Thought he was pulling my leg till I took heads from a 35yr engine I had sitting on the floor of my garage and bolted them on. Yep. Being the rear of the engine always was a flow issue. 37 blocks worked superwell as you run a block pump and exit out the rear of the block. Of course you have to pipe it and cut your firewall/cowl.


The skip crew built a 37 with block pumps and head pumps. Bet that moved some water/coolent. Interesting though.

[Talkwrench]

This might help with head studs ..
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...95#post1551695

[rotorwrench]

I like the regular 1936 engine mounts myself. The head mounted pumps do fine. There are some 21 stud Sharp aluminum heads available now if a person wants but they are expensive. Skip Haney can put his high flow impeller on those stock head pumps and there will be no modification necessary. The crab distributor is just fine unless you want to put an original helmet type back on there. The later distributors were two bolt and required an adapter on the 3-bolt timing covers unless someone replaced the timing cover with the late type. The late type distributors starting in 1941 also came with the later 11A type advance unit. This was a common update since it will work in the older ones as well and was the replacement part from Ford. The late advance unit gives a bit more advance but not a lot more.