The Ford Barn

Kelly mt · 07-31-2023, 09:40 AM

I have a Borg Warner OD in my '29 Coupe that has stopped working in reverse. The cable is out and should be in direct. It worked when I got the car several months ago. More info, It is wired using the governor and the solenoid is a one wire type. It does have a relay which is a newer cube type. When I try to back up I can hear a light clicking like gears just touching but not engaging. The OD works good in all ways except reverse. Ideas?

katy · 07-31-2023, 10:05 AM

Try removing the cable from the shift lever on the OD and see if manually shifting it does anything.

daveymc29 · 07-31-2023, 02:28 PM

The cable as mentioned above. It may be that it has slipped a bit and the mechanism is really not in reverse. Mine is mounted on my shift lever for the tranny and it seems to creep down the cable holder and every once in a while I find I have no reverse, it then is just a matter of pulling the O/D shifter back up a tad and it's back in busines. Annoying, but it is a self inflicted annoyance as when I was putting the unit in my car, I made real sure the cable moved freely and was well lubed. Should have let it have a little drag and it would stay in place.

AzBob · 07-31-2023, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveymc29

The cable as mentioned above. It may be that it has slipped a bit and the mechanism is really not in reverse. Mine is mounted on my shift lever for the tranny and it seems to creep down the cable holder and every once in a while I find I have no reverse, it then is just a matter of pulling the O/D shifter back up a tad and it's back in busines. Annoying, but it is a self inflicted annoyance as when I was putting the unit in my car, I made real sure the cable moved freely and was well lubed. Should have let it have a little drag and it would stay in place.

That is exactly what happens to my cable. I cleaned and lubed the cable a while back and now it gradually works its way down towards the OD position. Have to check it occasionally by pulling up on the knob while driving. It works its way down faster on bumpy roads. Like daveymc29, I wished it had a little more drag.

AzBob · 08-01-2023, 10:43 AM

Kelly mt, here is a link to Tom Endy's article on Borg Warner overdrives.

http://www.santaanitaas.org/wp-conte...r-Apr-2005.pdf

The only times my OD made that clicking noise with no movement in reverse was when the cable was down in the OD position. Quickly remedied by pulling up on the cable. (With the clutch disengaged.)

Hope this helps.

rotorwrench · 08-01-2023, 11:43 AM

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The solenoid and pawl have to be disengaged to use the lockout function. As was mentioned, it has to be in lockout position to use reverse gear. It the solenoid is engaged, serious damage will result if operated in reverse. Problems can arise if the solenoid will not disengage.

Borg Warner used several safety devices in their design of this system originally. The reverse gear shifting mechanism, in the original design, would insure that the transmission would lock out. Separating the overdrive from the transmission did away with that safety function and others are generally done away with to simplify operation for applications like the model A.

There are control cables that can be locked to prevent slippage but they can be expensive.

AzBob · 08-01-2023, 11:53 AM

If the overdrive solenoid is wired into the governor switch correctly as the OP indicated, the solenoid will be disengaged when stopped and attempting to reverse. Thus the "clicking" sound. No damage done in this case.

rotorwrench · 08-01-2023, 05:06 PM

The R10 and R11 overdrive both have a sprag type free wheeling unit or one way drive. The sun gear has to be locked out or it will free wheel in reverse.

I've had solenoids stay engaged or stuck even after turning off the ignition switch on one of my Mercs. It's not a common failure but sh!t happens. I've seen and heard of the failures that can happen with these BW designs. All in all they are reliable but I prefer running them with all the safety features.

daveymc29 · 08-01-2023, 05:52 PM

I wired my hot lead to the overdrive to a lock out switch that I created on the rear of the low/reverse shifter rod housing, that is the right hand tube of the shift tower as seen from the drivers seat. Laycock de Normanville units on my Austin Healeys all had lock outs when reverse was engaged and some has it when 1st gear was engaged also. (That is the unit found on the Volvo that is rightfully so popular.)

AzBob · 08-01-2023, 11:25 PM

I've actually tried reversing mine in overdrive with the solenoid engaged. This was before I installed the governor switch circuit which was left out by the previous owner.

Guess what? the sprag drive free wheeling clutch didn't blow up and the world didn't end. Unless you pop the clutch, you'll immediately realize you are not going anywhere in reverse. and I might add, with no damage done.

I later disassembled the overdrive for inspection and installation of the governor switch drive gear which was missing for some reason. Found no evidence of internal damage to the unit.

Kelly mt · 08-02-2023, 12:33 AM

The cable has enough travel to two block the lever to the milled stop of the case. I pulled it down and everything inside looks good. The sprag clutch is in nice shape the gears have sharp edges, no metal floating around. The only thing I see is it looks like the lever isn't moving the sun gear far enough.

rotorwrench · 08-02-2023, 02:36 PM

The different applications sometimes had different lock out control rod assemblies. Most of these units were made from a specific R10 unit that was easy to adapt. I'm not sure what vehicles they came from or I could find the control rod to match the unit.

07-31-2023, 09:40 AM	#1
Kelly mt Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Noxon, MT Posts: 83	Borg Warner OD No Reverse? I have a Borg Warner OD in my '29 Coupe that has stopped working in reverse. The cable is out and should be in direct. It worked when I got the car several months ago. More info, It is wired using the governor and the solenoid is a one wire type. It does have a relay which is a newer cube type. When I try to back up I can hear a light clicking like gears just touching but not engaging. The OD works good in all ways except reverse. Ideas?

07-31-2023, 10:05 AM	#2
katy Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Red Deer, Alberta Posts: 5,046	Re: Borg Warner OD No Reverse? Try removing the cable from the shift lever on the OD and see if manually shifting it does anything. __________________ If you don't hear a rumor by 10 AM, start one!. Got my education out behind the barn!

07-31-2023, 02:28 PM	#3
daveymc29 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Danville, CA Posts: 1,554	Re: Borg Warner OD No Reverse? The cable as mentioned above. It may be that it has slipped a bit and the mechanism is really not in reverse. Mine is mounted on my shift lever for the tranny and it seems to creep down the cable holder and every once in a while I find I have no reverse, it then is just a matter of pulling the O/D shifter back up a tad and it's back in busines. Annoying, but it is a self inflicted annoyance as when I was putting the unit in my car, I made real sure the cable moved freely and was well lubed. Should have let it have a little drag and it would stay in place.

08-01-2023, 10:43 AM	#5
AzBob Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Prescott, AZ Posts: 130	Re: Borg Warner OD No Reverse? Kelly mt, here is a link to Tom Endy's article on Borg Warner overdrives. http://www.santaanitaas.org/wp-conte...r-Apr-2005.pdf The only times my OD made that clicking noise with no movement in reverse was when the cable was down in the OD position. Quickly remedied by pulling up on the cable. (With the clutch disengaged.) Hope this helps.

08-01-2023, 11:43 AM	#6
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,436	Re: Borg Warner OD No Reverse? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) The solenoid and pawl have to be disengaged to use the lockout function. As was mentioned, it has to be in lockout position to use reverse gear. It the solenoid is engaged, serious damage will result if operated in reverse. Problems can arise if the solenoid will not disengage. Borg Warner used several safety devices in their design of this system originally. The reverse gear shifting mechanism, in the original design, would insure that the transmission would lock out. Separating the overdrive from the transmission did away with that safety function and others are generally done away with to simplify operation for applications like the model A. There are control cables that can be locked to prevent slippage but they can be expensive.

08-01-2023, 05:06 PM	#8
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,436	Re: Borg Warner OD No Reverse? The R10 and R11 overdrive both have a sprag type free wheeling unit or one way drive. The sun gear has to be locked out or it will free wheel in reverse. I've had solenoids stay engaged or stuck even after turning off the ignition switch on one of my Mercs. It's not a common failure but sh!t happens. I've seen and heard of the failures that can happen with these BW designs. All in all they are reliable but I prefer running them with all the safety features.

08-01-2023, 05:52 PM	#9
daveymc29 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Danville, CA Posts: 1,554	Re: Borg Warner OD No Reverse? I wired my hot lead to the overdrive to a lock out switch that I created on the rear of the low/reverse shifter rod housing, that is the right hand tube of the shift tower as seen from the drivers seat. Laycock de Normanville units on my Austin Healeys all had lock outs when reverse was engaged and some has it when 1st gear was engaged also. (That is the unit found on the Volvo that is rightfully so popular.)

08-01-2023, 11:25 PM	#10
AzBob Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Prescott, AZ Posts: 130	Re: Borg Warner OD No Reverse? I've actually tried reversing mine in overdrive with the solenoid engaged. This was before I installed the governor switch circuit which was left out by the previous owner. Guess what? the sprag drive free wheeling clutch didn't blow up and the world didn't end. Unless you pop the clutch, you'll immediately realize you are not going anywhere in reverse. and I might add, with no damage done. I later disassembled the overdrive for inspection and installation of the governor switch drive gear which was missing for some reason. Found no evidence of internal damage to the unit. Last edited by AzBob; 08-01-2023 at 11:52 PM. Reason: Additional Info

08-02-2023, 02:36 PM	#12
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,436	Re: Borg Warner OD No Reverse? The different applications sometimes had different lock out control rod assemblies. Most of these units were made from a specific R10 unit that was easy to adapt. I'm not sure what vehicles they came from or I could find the control rod to match the unit.