Washers, yay or nay, on stock head studs

[47topless]

Should I use hardened washers, with the stock nuts and studs, when installing the stock iron heads on a 59 AB? Was there a reason that washers were not used originally on these engines?
In my practical mind, it seems like washers would greatly assist in maintaining the torque value, on these nuts, as the engine is run and warmed up.

[ford38v8]

Originally Posted by 47topless

Should I use hardened washers, with the stock nuts and studs, when installing the stock iron heads on a 59 AB? Was there a reason that washers were not used originally on these engines?
In my practical mind, it seems like washers would greatly assist in maintaining the torque value, on these nuts, as the engine is run and warmed up.

Washers only on aluminum heads.

[JM 35 Sedan]

Originally Posted by 47topless

Should I use hardened washers, with the stock nuts and studs, when installing the stock iron heads on a 59 AB? Was there a reason that washers were not used originally on these engines?
In my practical mind, it seems like washers would greatly assist in maintaining the torque value, on these nuts, as the engine is run and warmed up.

I use the hardened steel washers on my '35-'36, 21 stud engines when using iron heads because these engines I have originally came from the factory with aluminum heads and hardened washers under the nuts, so the original studs were a bit longer because of this. If I use iron heads with original studs and no washers, the studs would protrude an additional 1/16", or more above the top of the nuts.

So, there's no reason why you can't use hardened steel washers on your 59 series engine with iron heads as long as you have the studs set to the right height above the deck, and I believe you are correct on your thinking that torquing the nuts and holding that torque would be better/easier with those hardened steel washers in place under the nuts. It's your call.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by ford38v8

Washers only on aluminum heads.

100% accurate!

[JM 35 Sedan]

Originally Posted by Kube

100% accurate!

....and that's only 100% accurate "IF" your only concern and/or purpose in life is attempting to build a high point, over restored, show vehicle as it may have left the various factories building that vehicle!!

[Jack E/NJ]

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>>>Was there a reason that washers were not used>>>


A set of hardened 7/16" washers cost about $1 in 1949. A lot of money back then. 8^)

[47topless]

Originally Posted by Jack E/NJ

>>>Was there a reason that washers were not used>>>


A set of hardened 9/16" washers cost about $1 in 1949. A lot of money back then. 8^)

That thought crossed my mind. Old Henry watched his pennies.

[JM 35 Sedan]

Originally Posted by 47topless

That thought crossed my mind. Old Henry watched his pennies.

Unfortunately, when our dear old Henry passed away, his design and manufacturing engineers (and probably his bean counters) began to play.

[Kube]

[QUOTE=Jack E/NJ;2252748]>>>Was there a reason that washers were not used>>>




Because they were not necessary with iron heads.

[GB SISSON]

Now you have me thinking about some of the other time tested engines out there. Does a small block ford or chev, a mopar slant six, a cummin s 6bt, a toyota 22re or a Ford 300 six use washers? Is it a cast iron/aluminum thing?

[47topless]

[QUOTE=Kube;2252798]

Originally Posted by Jack E/NJ

>>>Was there a reason that washers were not used>>>




Because they were not necessary with iron heads.

And there you have it.
Thanks

[cadillac512]

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

Now you have me thinking about some of the other time tested engines out there. Does a small block ford or chev, a mopar slant six, a cummin s 6bt, a toyota 22re or a Ford 300 six use washers? Is it a cast iron/aluminum thing?

The main purpose is to prevent the bolt or nut from digging into the soft aluminum surface. Cast iron is generally hard enough that it isn't a problem, especially on fasteners that have a slightly raised round surface where they contact the iron. That isn't enough for aluminum, hence the washers. That's the experience I've had anyway, building engines for the last 40 years.



Terry

[JM 35 Sedan]

Originally Posted by Jack E/NJ

>>>Was there a reason that washers were not used>>>


A set of hardened 7/16" washers cost about $1 in 1949. A lot of money back then. 8^)

Yes, it's generally called a cost reduction/cost savings. Just like the change from studs and nuts to hex headed bolts. It's a constant thing required in engineering to keep the cost of manufacturing a product down. The best scenario would be a reduction in cost and an improvement to the product at the same time, but this is not always the case when changes are made.