Cleaning oil pan sludge without dropping it- before changing to detergent based oil

[green30coupe]

D,
Why not just keep the oil level topped off until the end of the season and then drop the pan when you can afford the time? Might give you time to consider all angles for the job.....
(I use a little trim adhesive to hold gaskets in place during installation.)

Ed

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by Russell in Tulsa

Those gaskets stay in place real good if you spray them with Copper-Coat...

Even a light coat of chassis lube is usually enough to get the gasket to stay in place when working from below.

[PC/SR]

Dropping the pan is sort of a pain the first couple of times. Get the front end on jack stands. That gives you more room, and you can turn the wheels full right or left to get the tie rod out of the way and have access to the front pan bolts. Buy the tool to hold the oil pump in place from a supplier. It is cheap and well worth it. There are threads on getting the gaskets in place correctly. If done wrong you will have a leak. Basically, the gasket tabs on the block sides gaskets have to go under the rear main cap gasket/seal into the notch on the rear main cap. Soak that main cap gasket in a cup overnight to get a curved set to it and cut it to the correct length. I use a thin layer of #2 Permatex to hold things in place and to goo up the corners. Use a ratchet with a 12" extension makes it easier to start the bolts on installation. Put the bolts in the socket rather than trying to get your fingers in there to start the bolts. Or use a couple of 2" long bolts the same size as the pan bolts to get the pan lined up.

[Terry, NJ]

Dropping the pan for any reason inspires memories of my 49-53 ford days and they ain't fun! Putting them back was even worse! So I'm leaning towards just putting the detergent oil into the engine. As Tom W pointed out, the diesel plus the bubbling cavitation didn't break off chunks of sludge. I Think the sludge will dissolve in in layers as you change the oil. I have no fears about putting MMO or a similar (ATF) product into the crankcase. In time, this combined with frequent oil changes, should clean the engine out. Am I wrong?
Terry

[1st_model_a]

I have a '28 A with an oil drain cover. Attached picture. Can I clean out the oil pan without dropping it after I remove the cover & pump? If so, any handy tools for doing it?

[Dave in MN]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Originally Posted by 1st_model_a

I have a '28 A with an oil drain cover. Attached picture. Can I clean out the oil pan without dropping it after I remove the cover & pump? If so, any handy tools for doing it?

The only tool you will need is the socket to remove the cover and a hand small enough to reach in. The baffles on the dipper tray will limit how much of the pan you are able to reach.

[Brentwood Bob]

Would add that when you pull the valve cover and do a cleanout you make sure the oil galleys to the cam and mains are not plugged up in the process.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by Brentwood Bob

Would add that when you pull the valve cover and do a cleanout you make sure the oil galleys to the cam and mains are not plugged up in the process.

Someone mentioned that they used "fat" pipe cleaners stuffed in the galley holes to protect them from getting plugged while you scrape out the black gooey crap! Bill W.

[gilitos]

The only reason to change to detergent oil is to keep sludge from forming in a clean motor. Change it often and the sludge won't hurt a thing. Your motor will do fine until you can drop the pan and valve cover and do a real cleaning. (It's even questionable if it's worth disturbing a well-running motor to remove the sludge, which isn't going anywhere). You're way better off staying with non-detergent until you can thoroughly clean out the motor. Anything you do to disturb the sludge that's there, like kerosene or diesel flushing or even changing to detergent oil, will only risk destroying your bearings, and it won't help anything.

[Benson]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

Someone mentioned that they used "fat" pipe cleaners stuffed in the galley holes to protect them from getting plugged while you scrape out the black gooey crap! Bill W.

As Bob and Bill mentioned getting sludge in main bearing oil holes and plugging them up is a real possiblity.

There are the smaller cam bearing holes near the main feed holes to be aware of also.

SOME early engines do not have a rear cam bearing feed hole from the factory BUT many were drilled as specified by the service bulletins.

My suggestion is look carefully after removing the valve cover and

BEFORE disturbing the sludge!

1. find the two holes in the rear,

2. the one main hole in the middle (there is no hole for the middle cam bearing as it is feed by the oil pump near the distributor drive gear) oil pump drive gear

3.and last the two holes near the front. (is there a cam feed hole in front? ... it has been a while).

Once you move the sludge around it is too late. The junk will go down the holes or tubes.

It might help to leave the engine for a week after running it so that the oil drains down the oil feed holes. Makes it easier to find the oil feed holes.

If you do not distrub the sludge before finding the oil feed holes it is easier to find them because there will usually be a small depression in the sludge where the oil drain holes are located. Or even a small area where there is not sludge.

THe sludge can be sucked out with a hand operated "suction gun" (looks like a grease gun but with a large 3/8 hose hooked to it.
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/WES...ubrication-_-L

A wet / dry shop vacuum might be used to suck the sludge out without forcing any down the feed holes BUT be sure there is no gasoline in the sludge! You do not want a explosion sparked by the shop vac brushes!

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Chief always said, "Do it right & don't "patch" it or it'll come back to HAUNT YOU. Patching it is only to get you home when it croakes on the road!"
As a kid, I was Chief's clean up guy, I remember HARD sludge build up that had to be scraped out with a stiff putty knife! Sometimes built up almost to the oil pump screen. A friend pulled the pan on a long time stored car and it had the oil pump screen covered with something??? that sorta' looked like an oily old piece of paper towel. Always pull the pan on a newly acquired car to be safe!!!
Assume NOTHING! My coupe had only about 1/8 cup of oil in the trans & diff. Somone must have drained them & had a brain fart & forgot to fill them. Bill W.

[Steve Wastler]

Originally Posted by gilitos

The only reason to change to detergent oil is to keep sludge from forming in a clean motor. Change it often and the sludge won't hurt a thing. Your motor will do fine until you can drop the pan and valve cover and do a real cleaning. (It's even questionable if it's worth disturbing a well-running motor to remove the sludge, which isn't going anywhere). You're way better off staying with non-detergent until you can thoroughly clean out the motor. Anything you do to disturb the sludge that's there, like kerosene or diesel flushing or even changing to detergent oil, will only risk destroying your bearings, and it won't help anything.

Obviously you have never seen how much or to what extent the sludge can be. Your first sent ace makes no sence. the oil pump is at the lowest point in the pan, and the pump has a cover pulling in from the bottom, large amounts of sludge certainly restrict good oil flow, and will clog the pump and oil passages.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Another reason to pull the pan is to check the dipper tray for pinholes caused by the acid in old oil, or water that gets into an old engine setting outside. Any pinholes will cause the rods to run dry during each startup. I bought an oil pan at a swap meet and it still had 3 quarts of old oil in it. Why anyone would not have dumped it is beyond me. After I got it home and dumped the oil and removed the sludge, I found 3 pinholes in the oil pan, and a few more deep rust pits.

[sethkestenbaum]

Thanks for the input guys. It sounds like it shoudl be "simple" until it gets "complicated". I may just put it off a little longer or wait for some more experienced help to join me.

[Tom Wesenberg]

If you remove the side cover and see the valve area is clean, then there's a good chance the pan is clean. If you see any sludge at all, you can bet there's a lot more in the pan bottom where it settles out.

Another easy thing to try is to take a thin wood dowel, cut a slit in the end about 1/2" deep. Stick it straight down the dipstick hole until it hits the pan bottom, then give it a quarter twist and pull it out. If there is no sludge caught in the slit then the pan is probably fairly clean.

[1st_model_a]

thx. Got the oil drain cover off but it is pretty obvious there,s no way to clean sludge by hand. Feel vertical barriers blocking area. Well as they say nothing hard is ever easy. Will drop the oil pan. Funny it already has "dents" on both ends - maybe someone really dropped it. BTW the oil pump screen was covered with grit.

This post is in reply to #26 Dave in MN. sorry I don't know how to post to your reply yet.

[SLPreston53]

As Puck intimated, there are many plans for a small "tool" that screws into the plug on the side of the block near the oil pump to hold it in place when the pan comes off. You can find plans for that tool here on FB (cost less than $5). That little item makes the processa TON easier because you are not fighting the pump.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by 1st_model_a

thx. Got the oil drain cover off but it is pretty obvious there,s no way to clean sludge by hand. Feel vertical barriers blocking area. Well as they say nothing hard is ever easy. Will drop the oil pan. Funny it already has "dents" on both ends - maybe someone really dropped it. BTW the oil pump screen was covered with grit.

This post is in reply to #26 Dave in MN. sorry I don't know how to post to your reply yet.

Just click on "Quote" at the lower right of post # 26 & you can reply to that post. Bill W.

[Chris H]

When I pulled my oil pan, I expected the worst when reinstalling the pan and new gaskets. I had the car on jack stands and used a small bottle jack to support the pan, just to hold it in place. I applied a very very light coat of silicone gasket sealant to the engine side of the gaskets to hold them to the block. Made sure the gasket surfaces were clean and free of oil, dirt, and grease. Then just raised the pan in place and adjusted the bottle jack to hold the pan in place while installing the bolts. It was very easy and took about an hour.

I thought it was too easy, and expected to see some leaks. So far so good after about 500 miles or so. I park it over a pan and never see any oil.

Maybe it was beginners luck ???

[cpetku]

I have big hands, so I must be missing something here...

After I pulled the oil pan, I pried out the baffle tray and was able to clean it and the oil pan in the parts washer. It took a small adjustment to the baffle to straighten the edges and a wooden tool (2x4) to re-install.

Why are people afraid to pull the baffle from the pan?