Fan blades are BREAKING

[G.M.]

Originally Posted by Lawson Cox

Chuck the next fan up in a lathe and check it for balance after closely inspecting it for cracks. Are you talking about genuine Ford parts or one of these modern plastic replacements?

Lawson that will take a pretty big lathe. G.M.

[JWL]

I agree with JM35 and would be reluctant to drive that fan breaking car until all reasonable possibilities for the vibration/rumble have been examined.

[Marv]

Could go with a electric fan until you find the trouble. Someone could get hurt with that fan breaker.

[Andy]

I sure would not run the engine without knowing what is wrong. It is not a minor problem.

[VeryTangled]

Hi Everyone, I'll be at the gig Sunday so I'll be able to talk with forte. I'm not a great diagnostician, but I'll listen to what he says and might possibly get a look or listen.

Hoping we know more soon.

[forte]

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I just put a dial indicator from a fixed point to the rim of the hub. Using a socket and ratchet I rotated the crank shaft and noticed that I had 1/1000" movement just applying pressure to rotate. Meaning I was moving the hub/shaft downward before I started to rotate. I had a variable of 5/1000" difference w/ a complete revolution in terms of center of shaft to outer rim edge of pully hub where the hand crank bolt is. So would I be guessing right that it should not be doing either of those? Please note this motor is not easy to rotate. It takes much effort to move and thats w/ pushing downward on the ratchet.

[51 MERC-CT]

Originally Posted by forte

. It takes much effort to move and thats w/ pushing downward on the ratchet.

Pull the spark plugs to make it easier to rotate. And you may also be able to rotate using the starter.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by forte

I just put a dial indicator from a fixed point to the rim of the hub. Using a socket and ratchet I rotated the crank shaft and noticed that I had 1/1000" movement just applying pressure to rotate. Meaning I was moving the hub/shaft downward before I started to rotate. I had a variable of 5/1000" difference w/ a complete revolution in terms of center of shaft to outer rim edge of pully hub where the hand crank bolt is. So would I be guessing right that it should not be doing either of those? Please note this motor is not easy to rotate. It takes much effort to move and thats w/ pushing downward on the ratchet.

Is the hub clean? In other words... no paint, crud, etc.
I would do as has been recently advised and turn the engine with the starter. See how the run out compares to the readings you got with pressure applied with the ratchet.

THEN I would remove the pulley and check the runout of the crankshaft stub..


I applaud your efforts thus far. It's refreshing to find a person that is willing to spend the time / effort to repair something properly.
I have to say, if the hub is clean and you are seeing .005" of runout, I'd start worrying if it were mine. If you get that same .005" on the crank "stub", there's a serious issue internally...crank bent? Bearings SHOT?

Good luck...

[forte]

Well, if I had 6grand around I might have sent the car to a shop. Then again probably not. I'd put it towards my Dads car like yours. So yes, I will do what ever I can. I need this car to be reliable for my family's sake. I'll do what you asked. It makes sense to me. Hub had paint but I can start the motor for one minute and take some sand paper to it and clean it right up.

[forte]

OK so I removed the pully/ flange/ hub. What is its proper name? the hub was clean of paint and it was smooth. I afixed a dial on the crankshaft. Spun it by hand and by starter button. Same results.
1) I have a solid 1/1000" variance. Is this ok?
2) I have a 1.5+/1000" free play in that shaft moving it by hand up and down side to side. Is this ok?
3) I also noticed that when using the starter the motor torqued it up to 5/1000" free play if you will. This does not look good to me. Right?

FYI, as I installed the pully it was tight starting 1" on the shaft, then it was free going on the shft to the motor. As I removed the pully it was tight coming off the first .5" then free then tight again the last 1".

tight = use of hammer and rod for install thru the crank hole and a puller to remove.
4) Is any of this not ok?

[forte]

The motor has been rebuilt probably back in '95 when the past owner had the paint done. Cylinder sleeves were used as evidence. Turns out there were only 3 crank shaft bolts still intact. All others were snapped off down inside where the threads are. There is also a crack in the block. Thank you to everyone who has pitched in their opinions. Now we know why my two fans broke.

[40cpe]

Thank you for returning with the problems found. Am I correct in understanding that three main cap bolts were broken? Was the crack in the area of the mains? Can anyone venture a theory on what broke the bolts?

[JM 35 Sedan]

It's sad to hear the bad news, but I think many of us who were following this thread knew something was seriously wrong with the internals of your engine. Thanks for coming back to let us know what you found. Where is the block cracked, and is this a fatal crack? What are your plans now to move forward with this and get your car back on the road? Is there anything us folks local to you can do to help you out on this? Maybe think about coming to the next RG36 membership meeting in Sunshine, MD, usually held on third Tuesday of most every month, and get to know our members who live near you. Someone is bound to have some good advice and maybe willing to lend you a hand.

[forte]

1)40cpe, What color is that Deluxe? Folkstone Gray?
2) Bolts broke. One bearing laying in oil pan. My theory = I've seen some p__s poor craftsmanship on this car. Scratches on every piece of glass from a DA. Hand cut bolts being used, What was done and by whom back in '95 was either steeling the previous owners money, or simply could not perform good quality work. I feel the rebuilt motor reflects what was done to the rest of the car. I'm my own boss running a custom cabinetry shop. I do things right the best way I can. I will get this car back together and might even get it to the Eastern National Meet on time. Gunther's has my Dad's Flathead and was issued a passing grade.
3) Crack = between a bolt hole and a water hole on block. I believe the broken bolts is why Gunther's did not want to rebuild the motor.
4) JM 35 = I have been attending the RG#36 meeting since I joined in October.
6-8 weeks before I have both motors back for photos. So now its a good time to clean the motor compartment.

[40cpe]

Originally Posted by forte

1)40cpe, What color is that Deluxe? Folkstone Gray?

3) Crack = between a bolt hole and a water hole on block. I believe the broken bolts is why Gunther's did not want to rebuild the motor.

Yes, Folkstone Gray

Those cracks are typically harmless.

I've been following flathead forums for 12+ years and have never heard of main cap bolts breaking in a running engine. I would like to know opinions of the cause. Wrong bolts? Too much torque? Crank badly out of balance?

[Cecil/WV]

Glad you found the problem, Ken, but sorry to hear the damage. I knew it was in the bottom when I heard it run at the show at the farm museum. See you on the 21st.

[JM 35 Sedan]

QUOTE=forte;1302187]
2) I will get this car back together and might even get it to the Eastern National Meet on time. Gunther's has my Dad's Flathead and was issued a passing grade.

I am hoping you can get the car done and bring it to the ENM in August

4) JM 35 = I have been attending the RG#36 meeting since I joined in October.

Did not know you were a member and cannot recall meeting you, but then I haven't attended many meetings myself since last October

6-8 weeks before I have both motors back for photos. So now its a good time to clean the motor compartment.

Hoping this build goes much better than the last[/QUOTE]

[Cecil/WV]

John, you been playing hooky too much, lately! You going to Tulsa??

[JM 35 Sedan]

Originally Posted by Cecil/WV

John, you been playing hooky too much, lately! You going to Tulsa??

Yep Cecil, I am missing a few meetings along the way, but I'm thinking about you folks constantly, so hoping that counts some . I am all signed up for Tulsa and Gettysburg, but don't think I'll make the '16 WNM.
Now all I need to do is finish getting the '35 fordor rear rebuilt with 3.54 gears, maybe put a set of later '39 to '48 gears in the transmission, and get it all back together before the d day, departure date.

[Bluebell]

40CPE, I have no previous knowledge. Pulling the bolts down too tight may have been the cause? What about wrong gudgeon pins (wrist pins) with wrong pistons. I understand that puts the engine out of balance. Just another possibility.