Help Identifying Steering Parts on 1928 Model A with Hydraulic Brakes

[AndrewIndyA]

I'm new to the antique car hobby, and I just bought a 1928 Ford Model A Fordor. I'm an electrical engineer, but haven't worked on cars much before.

The front end is pretty loose, so I want to go through the steering system and repair the worn parts. I did some research on which parts typically need replacement for the Model A, but this car has a hydraulic brake conversion and I haven't found much information about some of the differences between what I have and a stock Model A. I was hoping for some help in identifying which parts I have on the steering arm and tie rod ends, and what parts I might need. I've included some pictures.

1) Here's what I think I have, and I'd appreciate if you could confirm or correct me:
- 1a: It looks like I have backing plates from a 46-48 Ford, and I have tie rod ends and steering arms likely also from a 46-48 Ford (e.g., http://www.macsautoparts.com/ford_me...passenger.html).
- 1b: It looks like I have a Model A Pittman arm and drag link that connects to a 46-48 tie rod end - with a steering arm adapter (e.g. http://www.macsautoparts.com/ford_mo...m-adapter.html).
- 1c: It looks like I have king pins also from the 46-48 Ford (e.g. http://www.macsautoparts.com/ford_me...ssenger.html)?
2) The description of the steering arm adapter on MAC's website says "For 1939-48 spindles on 1928-34 axle when converting to hydraulic brakes," so does that mean my car has 39-48 spindles? I haven't taken off the wheels yet to be able to give more info.
3) I was planning on putting in the tie rod / drag link rebuild kit with teflon seats, but it looks like that would only be applicable to the pittman arm/drag link connection. Is that kit what's needed for the drag link / steering arm adapter connection too?
4) Do the tie rod ends I have typically get worn and need replacement? I'm not familiar with their internal design, so I don't know if they are similar to the Model A's tie rod end construction. If they need replacement, is this the part I need (http://www.macsautoparts.com/ford_me...passenger.html, and the corresponding right hand side of course).
5) I have Les Andrew's Mechanics Handbook Vol I&II, but I didn't see him talk about any steering arm or tie rod end changes in his chapter on hydraulic brake conversion. So I'm wondering if he just didn't discuss necessary steering changes, or if perhaps the Model A spindle, steering arms and tie rod ends could still have been used when the hydraulic brake conversion was done? Or does use of 46-48 backing plates require changes to tie rod ends and steering arms?

I bought this from an older guy who bought this car from an estate, and the son who was managing the estate didn't know anything about the car. The guy I bought it from had to fix the hydraulic brakes, because he said the previous owner likely attempted a hydraulic brake conversion but had the backing plates arranged wrong and never got it working. The guy I bought it from couldn't tell me much about the car since he hadn't driven it much and hadn't done any work on the front end.

I don't know yet for sure what's worn, except that the sector shaft bushings are likely worn (sector shaft moves when I tug on the Pittman arm or turn the steering wheel). The king pins seem to be OK too. My main questions now are just to understand what I have and what parts I might need. Sorry that the portrait pictures appear to have been rotated when I uploaded them.

Thanks for your help!

Andrew

[1931 flamingo]

Take this post/pictures over to the EV8 forum, they'll be able to identify what brakes you have. For this conversion you have the correct "hoop" steering arm. ENJOY ! !
Paul in CT

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by 1931 flamingo

Take this post/pictures over to the EV8 forum, they'll be able to identify what brakes you have. For this conversion you have the correct "hoop" steering arm. ENJOY ! !
Paul in CT

The year of the brakes is easy. Since they do not have adjusters at the 6 o'clock position they are '46-'48. Sorry I can't help on the spindles. I always use the Model A spindles, drag link and tie rod when converting to hydraulic brakes. There is a kit for about $25 that lets you do this. Be sure that the brake hose is not rubbing on something.

Charlie Stephens

[CWPASADENA]

Looks like 39-41 spindles.

Definitely 46-48 backing plates as previously stated.

My opinion,

Chris W.

[ursus]

Your assessment of the provenance of spindles, backing plates , and tie rod assembly is correct. I had a Model A with this arrangement and it handled quite well, but I could never get used to the fact that the tie rod hung below the front axle -it just didn't look right. I switched it out for Model A spindles and tie rod, which was carried above and out of sight.

[john in illinois]

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Andrew welcome to Ford Barn. There is a wealth of information here. You are correct that the teflon kit will just work on the drag link. Also check that the steering arm and pitman arm balls are round and not worn.Good luck.Nice looking A.

John

[Randy in ca]

Welcome to the Fordbarn Andrew, looks like a nice ride you've got there.

You've posted a pile of questions and I don't think some of them got answered so I'll try to run through them all again quickly.

1) Backing plates, as others indicated, are 1946-48
2) The spindles are 1937-41. Not sure why Mac's would refer to them
as 39-41 - either they are just wrong or they are trying to avoid confusion with regard to hydraulic brake conversions, being as in 1937-38 these same spindles were originally used with mechanical brakes
3) The kingpins you want to use are those for the 37-41 spindles so as to be the correct length and to have the slot for the locking bolt in the right location. Here's a picture I made up several years ago comparing the 37-41 spindles to the 42/46 - 48 ones:





-
4) The tie rod will use the 35-48 ends you've shown
5) The drag link appears to be stock Model A. Presume there is a ball stud mounted on the bolt on steering arm for drag link attachment. This style of bolt on steering arm has been used on thousands of street rods since the 1960's
6) Wondering about what you have for a setup on the rear brakes?
7) Wondering what you have for brake drums/hubs on the front end? If you're not sure, post some pictures. A possible problem area could potentially be if you have any of the later hydraulic system hubs/drums and the Model A rims have been mounted without using some spacers. Improper setting of the front wheel bearings can also be a source of steering looseness.

And that's about it I think. Hopefully clarifies things somewhat. Good Luck.

[AndrewIndyA]

Thanks everyone for the replies! I definitely have a better handle on what I have, and what parts I will need to order if I need replacements. In the future I might think about converting some of this back to the original design. I probably won't make any major changes at this point in time though, I'll just get what I have working well.

I will check for the spacers on the drums with a Model A wheel, thanks for that tip. Thanks also for the picture of the differences between the spindles, that was helpful.

Since you asked, I added a few pictures of the rear brake setup.

Thanks again!

Andrew