New build (not fired), water in cylinder-head gasket backwards?

[busmania]

I am close to starting my engine. Yesterday I filled it with 4 gallons of coolant but then ran out so today I moved to building oil pressure. After I got pressure I bought more coolant. Just after adding my 5th gallon, I realized it looked like some leaked into cylinder 6. After blowing it out, then doing it again 5 minutes later and again I realized water was seeping in so I drained some coolant and pulled the head. This is what I found (coolant in 6). Is my head gasket backwards? What else would cause it to leak I to cylinder when it hasn’t run yet? I used no sealer on the gaskets figuring I’d probably have to take it apart anyway soon. What do you think?

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[Tony, NY]

What does the surface of the head look like? Show a picture.

[busmania]

Brand new heads. No scratches or cracks.

[Bored&Stroked]

Those types of head gaskets can be installed on either bank of cylinders. It doesn't look like you have any head-gasket sealer on them? I usually use Copper-Coat or Hylomar.

BUT - if it is leaking water before you even start it, it will surely leak water after you start it, so I'm not thinking that head gasket sealer is your issue. More needs to be figured out!

Hopefully you were not cranking it over with the water in that cylinder. Otherwise, it may have "hydrauliced" (sp?) the cylinder - which can do bad things to rods, bearings, etc.. Were you cranking it over? How did you know or suspect you had water in your cylinders?

Also, whose brand of head gaskets are you using? The fire-rings look a bit funny to me - just wondering who made them?

Whose cylinder heads are you running and what did your torque the studs to?

If it was mine, I'd buy a set of Best Gasket GraphTite composite gaskets - install them, torque them down and then see if you have any issues. Hopefully it is just a head gasket sealing issue and not a block (crack) issue.

Once you assemble it and put water in it, check the plugs for water in the cylinders BEFORE you crank it over. You don't want another head gasket (or whatever) issue to cause a big problem with the rods/bearings, etc..

[Pete]

In the bottom picture, there is discoloration and hydraulic cracks around the base of the middle stud. That is the area where "Ford" cracks occur in the block.

[busmania]

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I am using the “best” gasket brand. I didn’t seal them for dumb reasons I now regret! Luckily I was not cranking when leaking was happening (I had run out of antifreeze so I moved onto priming oil…after I did that I bought more antifreeze). The reason I caught it is kind of stupid. However, I’ll admit my faults. I still have my spark plugs out from cranking to prime the oil and started to fill up the rest of the water. I forgot to reinstall the temp sender, and so when the water got high enough, it started to spill over and i was worried a little got into the cylinder. So I then went to blow out the cylinders with compressed air just in case any water got in there when I realized that one of them was spraying out basically constantly (it wouldn’t dry out) and would not stop which led me to assume it was leaking.

Running new edelbrock heads. Torqued per their instructions to 55 which judging by the compression on the gasket is plenty.

I removed the rest of the gasket. It looks like the seal on the middle water ports is not sealed all the way around? See the photo in this post. Other areas on the gasket you can see clearly where a complete seal 360° around the hole is made. However, in these two middle ones it looks like a place where water could get by. But, the extra gaskets I have had the same size holes, so I’m not sure how any gasket seal that.

I do have two other gaskets that are labeled Fitzgerald. They are made similar in that they are a composite material sandwiched between two thin pieces of metal. However, in this case, the metal is silver and not copper. If I use these should I still use the copper sealer? Photos?


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I’m happy to try other gaskets but I need thicker for valve clearances. These were .080 thick and gave me around a .050 valve clearance if I remember correctly.

[Bored&Stroked]

All you're seeing in the gaskets are the areas where there are holes in the block and the gasket isn't being compressed - there is plenty of compression around the holes. I doubt that gasket was .080 - those types are usually about .052 or so uncompressed. You can call Best to verify as I don't have a new one handy. I would try the Best composite gaskets - sprayed with Copper-Coat on both sides - and see what happens. Hopefully it is not a block issue - was this block pressure tested?

[Ggmac]

I know the heads are new but did you check them for being true and flat ? I’d check the heads with a fine tooth comb as they say .

[Automotive Stud]

I think you have the wrong head gaskets. If you look at Felpro they make a gasket with round holes like you are using and they make another gasket that has trapezoidal holes which match your block.

[46HARLEY]

Have you checked the other side ?

[Automotive Stud]

If you want to stick with Best copper gaskets, looks like it's p/n 505C on their site.

[cadillac512]

https://thirdgenauto.com/product/193...-gaskets-pair/

[flatjack9]

Originally Posted by Automotive Stud

I think you have the wrong head gaskets. If you look at Felpro they make a gasket with round holes like you are using and they make another gasket that has trapezoidal holes which match your block.

The gaskets with the round holes are recommended. They better control water flow.

[Automotive Stud]

Originally Posted by flatjack9

The gaskets with the round holes are recommended. They better control water flow.

Apparently not...

[deuce_roadster]

I have said it many times New does not equal Good anymore. Check everything, including how flat the head surface is. I know of 3 brand new Holley 4bbl carbs that had the same passage way not drilled at the factory that prevented them from working correctly.
I also would suggest Best composite gaskets over the copper ones.

[RKS.PA]

Third the motion to check the head surfaces for "flatness". Had two new Offy heads out of the box that were not flat and had to have them "skimmed" to get them to seal.

Good luck!!!

[itslow]

Originally Posted by Automotive Stud

I think you have the wrong head gaskets. If you look at Felpro they make a gasket with round holes like you are using and they make another gasket that has trapezoidal holes which match your block.

The round holes will simply have more material that blocks the passage between the head and block. The trapezoidal shape isn't going to improve sealing, but will affect water flow.

[busmania]

Checked the head. It is flat.

I did not torque studs. Some say to (to 8-10 pounds), some say finger tight. Thoughts?

I’ll order some of the graf tite gaskets and see how thick they are. I verified mine are about .060 thick squished and again, that’s what I used to make sure valves were clear. The valves were close when I installed everything so I think in my case thicker is better.

I’m not 100% sure the machine shop pressure tested but they were supposed to and are reputable so I assume they did. Ya know what they say about assuming though….but I don’t think it’s coming from cylinder walls. It basically trickled in instantly. I’d think unless it was a pretty clear pin hole, it would seep much slower.

I haven’t removed the other side yet but plan to do so today.

[Seth Swoboda]

Busmania,

Did you have the block checked for cracks? Seems like a dumb question but that hasn't been answered yet. Also, I always use Best Graphtite gaskets, sprayed with Copper Kote on both sides. Usually when I have a fresh engine I will fill it with water first, in the event I have a leak, I don't have nasty anti-freeze coolant everywhere. When I know I'm leak free I drain and fill with an anti-freeze and water mix. I agree with what others have said about the heads. I would check them out to make sure they are true, despite them being new. Duece Roadster is correct, much of this new stuff has poor quality control. No fault of yours.

[busmania]

Yes, the block was checked for cracks. That was the first thing they did after cleaning it. Before moving onto discussing if they would even do other work. After that, they said now “now buy these parts” based on their measure and then once they had the parts in hand, the did the work. They were pretty detailed about everything and a very reputable shop (machining all kinds of engines so not necessarily Flathead experts per se…but they had a few others in there at the same time. Anyway, I trust their work and feel pretty confident it is not a block issue.