Model B engine problem

[panorama]

I have a really great diamond block original bore engine that I put 75,000 on before it finally blew a head gasket. The problem is that the car was parked for 5 months while water got into number two cylinder and pitted it to the point it needs to be bored or sleeved.

The cylinders don't even have a ridge and the pistons seem tight. So here is the big question, what is best? bore all out to .20 over size, or sleeve to bad cylinder?

My fear is that Model B engines are famous for getting cracks and I worry about sleeving just because it is boring more metal.

Also, I need to remove all the head studs, because I intend to have new babbitt bearings poured. Got any good ideas for removing studs without breaking them? In the past, I have used heat, wax, followed by dry ice and had good luck, but it's been a while and I thought other people might have better ideas.

Thanks

Ron in Alaska

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by panorama

I have a really great diamond block original bore engine that I put 75,000 on before it finally blew a head gasket. The problem is that the car was parked for 5 months while water got into number two cylinder and pitted it to the point it needs to be bored or sleeved.

The cylinders don't even have a ridge and the pistons seem tight. So here is the big question, what is best? bore all out to .20 over size, or sleeve to bad cylinder?

My fear is that Model B engines are famous for getting cracks and I worry about sleeving just because it is boring more metal.

Also, I need to remove all the head studs, because I intend to have new babbitt bearings poured. Got any good ideas for removing studs without breaking them? In the past, I have used heat, wax, followed by dry ice and had good luck, but it's been a while and I thought other people might have better ideas.

Thanks

Ron in Alaska

Hey Ron,
If I understand you correctly, you are tearing down your engine. If so, and it's standard bore, it is a no brainer to have it bored to fit new pistons.
It can be bored to whatever least amount you want just to 'clean up' bores.
Egge machine co., and others, will make pistons to whatever size you wish.
If you just like to putt around/tour, just clean it up bore wise.

[RawhideKid]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Hey Ron,
If I understand you correctly, you are tearing down your engine. If so, and it's standard bore, it is a no brainer to have it bored to fit new pistons.
It can be bored to whatever least amount you want just to 'clean up' bores.
Egge machine co., and others, will make pistons to whatever size you wish.
If you just like to putt around/tour, just clean it up bore wise.

X2
If all you have is one bad cylinder there is no need to take them all out to more than whatever cleans that one cylinder up. It could be as little as .005 or .010.

I am wondering about one thing though, was that cylinder filled with salt water, because 5 month of antifreeze mix should not have pitted that bore that bad. You might be able to just run a hone through it and replace the rings. Also, since you live in Alaska and you are not using antifreeze, you are asking for a cracked beyond repair block.

Take the engine to your favorite rebuilder and ask his opinion before you start taking out more meat than needed.

Eggy.com will indeed make custom pistons if you need them.

[quickchange]

Re head studs, just done a block that I knew would be tricky to remove them even with a stud remover , tried a trick had heard about , few sharp taps on end of stud, heated the stud at the base with gas plant but not red hot , once a stud warm use a candle & melted it around the stud , just touch it & it melts . leave till cooler & all came undone easily .the melted wax seems to go down the threads, Old wives tail ?? maybe but it worked for me , Derek in a wet day in NZ

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by quickchange

Re head studs, just done a block that I knew would be tricky to remove them even with a stud remover , tried a trick had heard about , few sharp taps on end of stud, heated the stud at the base with gas plant but not red hot , once a stud warm use a candle & melted it around the stud , just touch it & it melts . leave till cooler & all came undone easily .the melted wax seems to go down the threads, Old wives tail ?? maybe but it worked for me , Derek in a wet day in NZ

Hey Derek,
PM sent.

[PC/SR]

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Yo Derek: Gonna be at BV next week? Where?

[Chuck Sea/Tac]

Is it an A diamond block, or a B engine. Not sure if diamond blocks were made in the B format?

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by Chuck Sea/Tac

Is it an A diamond block, or a B engine. Not sure if diamond blocks were made in the B format?

I have a "B" diamond block so they made at least one.

Charlie Stephens

[mike657894]

when I removed my studs I used two head nuts jammed together with about 60lbs of torque then 3ft piece of pipe on the wrench and slow steady push with the extension proably about 200ft pounds for a 1/4 to 1/2 turn then they came right out. I took them out because I broke one by over torque. none broke on the removal.

[Bob Bidonde]

Diamond blocks are no better than non-diamond blocks. I have had 3 Improved Four Cylinder Engines (AKA Model B) with diamonds in the their castings.

If one cylinder is bored oversize, the oversize piston and rings will unbalance the crankshaft when it rotates.

Blocks have been successfully bored 0.125" oversize, thus reducing the cylinder wall thickness by 0.063". I guess that the remaining cylinder wall after an 0.125" overbore is structurally adequate.

[Jim Brierley]

Any A or B engine can be safely bored to 4", I've seen some bored to 4.060" with no problems. I run a 4" B at Bonneville with a turbo on it, again no problems. I don't recommending a sleeve unless absolutely necessary, if not in there, it won't cause any problems. I would first hone the bad cyl. with a rigid type hone, it may clean up quicker than you'd suspect. If you bore, do so to a standard size in order to get rings to fit and no special order. Diamond A's and B's were made at least until the war.

[glenn in camino]

I use Kroil with success on all rusted parts. Be patient.

[Pmsqrd]

so does my roadster

[john charlton]

Years ago a head gasket leaked coolant into one bore over a long period .This was on an AA truck which at that time I seldom used . I found the problem when I tried to start the truck, the motor locked up wih water in the cylinder .I pulled the head and found a rusty bore .With the piston at the bottom of the bore I could see the rings had etched into the bore and the wrist pin ends had put dokes ( do you say "doke" in USA ???) in the wall . Oh woe is me I said . I cleaned up the bore with 3M paper ,oiled the bore and replaced the head . The engine was a Ford factory exchange unit with the thin sleeves back to standard . I thought in for a penny in for a pound what can I loose? . Turns out same compression as the other 3 and burns no oil so I got away with it . I would try this to start with, all you loose if it doesnt work is a head gasket .

John in heavy rain Suffolk County England .

[H. L. Chauvin]

Hi Ron,

1. After reading your most sincere comment:

"The problem is that the car was parked for 5 months while water got into number two cylinder and .......... pitted it to the point it needs to be bored or sleeved."

2. In addition to Mr. Brierly's comment in above Reply #11; one (1) humble opinion from past experiences with rust pits in Model A & B cylinder walls:

A. Your rust pits no doubt are visible; however, all cylinder rust pits are usually "only" as deep as one (1) individual's mental concept of rust pits being mechanically "too deep".

B. The actual depth of cylinder rust pit depths usually varies from human mind to human mind when it comes to deciding on proper sustainable mechanical function.

C. If you had cylinder wall rust "bumps", this would be another story; however, rings can easily slide over "certain" cylinder rust pits.

D. Rather then jump to a single mechanical mental conclusion, second and/or third mental opinions and innovative thoughts are most valuable in mechanical fields just as they are in the medical field.

E. Some today are reluctant to trying things such as this; however, it might be most beneficial to try to lightly hone this cylinder, reinstall piston and rings, and witness what happens prior to considering re-boring or re-sleeving.

Might add, I also agree with Mr. Charlton's Reply no 14 ..... again, cylinder rust pit depth perceptions appear to be controlled mainly by different human minds.