12-08-2014, 08:39 AM | #181 | |
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Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart
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12-08-2014, 08:42 AM | #182 |
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Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart
Again, I appreciate everyone;s help.
I am in a holding mode until a solution turns up. I am in no hurry.... I don;t want to ruin anything. Here is a list of possible solutions...Some are silly but I am trying to brainstorm fix considerations 1) Try to remove crank pulley a) Can they usually be removed after 80 years? Or are pins and bolts frozen. If break then can I obtain replacement. What if damage shaft....will I have to replace crank shaft? 2) Cut engine support bracket. Can I find replacement? Can it be installed? If I can't remove existing one from between ledges on timing cover, Crank pulley, engine oil pan lip...Then how can I insert new bracket in place? 3) with Hack saw Cut off ledgers on Timing cover. Still have problem, Can bracket fit past Timing cover dimple for timing gear end bearing "protrudes approx 1 inch Why??? Perhaps can file down approx 1/4 in or so to allow bracket to slide through. 4) Cut engine support bracket. Can I find replacement? Replace old timing cover with newer one without ledges that Ford produced in 1935. Will this newer Timing cover work on the older 1933 engine??? 5) and best just thought of it. A shallow socket wrench with tapered neck may fit under bracket to undo the last bolt Last edited by FrankWest; 12-08-2014 at 10:14 AM. |
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12-08-2014, 09:24 AM | #183 |
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Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart
Frank, Any possibility of you posting a picture of your spare engine? Would like to see the front especially. Thanks, Pat
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12-08-2014, 09:45 AM | #184 |
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Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart
Frank,
Forget # 2 and 3 for the reasons previously stated. In #3, that dimple you refer to captures the spring for the camshaft thrust plunger. If you file a 1/4" off it you will likely ruin the cover. Likely 4 won't work as your ledge-less timing gear cover is probably not the unique '33-'34 version of the timing gear cover as stated above. But if by chance it is a revised version of the '33-'34 then this is a viable alternative. In one of my recent posts I indicated how to identify the '33'34 version based on the location of the boss for mounting the generator. I have a good used '33-'34 crank pulley in case you break yours in the process of removing it. It will come off the end of crankshaft without damaging the crankshaft as there normally is oil in the immediate vicinity and corrosion is not normally an issue. There are no pins or bolts involved except the big one on the end of the crankshaft as described above. The pulley slides on the end of the crankshaft and a notch at the back end of the pulley engages a Woodruff key that is inserted into a slot in the crankshaft. It is held in place by the big bolt that doubles as the engagement point for the hand crank. Once that bolt is removed all that is holding the pulley in place is friction. But there's plenty of it hence the need for a puller in 99 out of 100 instances. Most of that friction comes from the oil seals in the timing gear cover and oil pan as mentioned above. I also have a spare front motor mount bracket, but if you stick with #1 you won't need it. If this were my car I would remove the grille and radiator to gain unfettered access to the front of the engine which would then make using a puller on the pulley relatively easy. |
12-08-2014, 09:55 AM | #185 |
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Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart
Frank I guess you have the radiator out and can see if there are holes 2 or 3 for bolts for a puller so not to damage it the pulley.
While thinking drop the pan. |
12-08-2014, 10:34 AM | #186 |
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Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart
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We can all identify with the frustration you are feeling. We have all been there. Don't give up on asking advise from the knowledgeable folks on this forum. To those of you pitching in to get Frank through this process, Thanks for living "The Golden Rule". |
12-08-2014, 12:55 PM | #187 |
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Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart
I think you are at the point were the grill needs to come of to work on the cam gear ,you could also jack the motor up about a 1" at the front the rubber rear mounts will flex a little ,you could then slide out the front mount ,Ted
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12-08-2014, 01:56 PM | #188 |
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Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart
I was thinking also that if it were me I would have the grille and the radiator out of the way. This is quite a job, and needs approaching with care. Being able to do the job from the front will be easier than doing it from either side.
On reflection, having said that, I think that if I were doing it I wouldn't remove the grille and rad unless it was absolutely necessary. Here's me thinking it through: Slacken crank bolt. Just a couple of turns. Using a great deal of care, move the crank pulley forward just enough to release the engine mount. Remove front cover. Remove cam gear (never had a 4. Is it difficult?). Rotate cam to make sure all is free. Align cam and crank and fit new gear (Is an improved version available) Refit cover. Refit engine mounts. Job done. It ought to be relatively simple, removing the grille and radiator (and probably the hood) and then refitting with all the alignment issues is probably not worth the extra work, as I said, unless absolutely necessary. Mart. |
12-08-2014, 07:42 PM | #189 |
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Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart
David, it is a good indicator there is something wrong in the electrical. The ammeter will pulsate when cranking the car because of the points. As the points touch, they ground which will show a discharge for a split second. When they break, it will show a neutral or 0 electrical movement.
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12-08-2014, 08:05 PM | #190 | |
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Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart
Quote:
The number is at the top of the page.
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12-11-2014, 07:25 AM | #191 |
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Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart
Great news...
finally Got last bolt off timing cover off engine bracket off Only small number of timing gear teeth missing right near crank shaft slightly hank cranked engine. center crank gear turned, timing gear did NOT JUST LIKE DAVIDG said |
12-11-2014, 07:29 AM | #192 |
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Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart
Need to get old timing dear off
And select proper timing gear. Why did Ford use a Plastic like material for original Timing Gear? Thinking of replacing with aluminum? What do most 4 cylinder engine owner put in their cars? |
12-11-2014, 07:44 AM | #193 |
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Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart
Eureka! Thanks for sharing the good news.
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12-11-2014, 08:29 AM | #194 |
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Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart
Frank,
I use the original material timing gears. Please recall the millions and millions of miles the 1928-34 fours have run on gears made of that material (as well as most of the pre-WWII V-8s). As indicated in my PM, the next step is to remove the old gear and verify that nothing is binding the camshaft, such as a rust-frozen distributor shaft. |
12-11-2014, 01:34 PM | #195 | |
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Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart
Quote:
Charlie Stephens Last edited by Charlie Stephens; 12-11-2014 at 01:40 PM. |
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12-11-2014, 02:13 PM | #196 |
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Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart
Just ordered one from Brattons..
Once I have it I will check to see if anything is binding...Hope not. The timing gear was NOT badly broken up just the upper edges of 7 or 8 teeth were sheared off. |
12-11-2014, 02:18 PM | #197 | |
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Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart
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I wonder if Ford chose this original material as a type of sacrificial safety "valve" that would shear off and prevent engine from being blown if any binding occurred? |
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12-11-2014, 02:32 PM | #198 |
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Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart
Frank, if you can remove the old gear you can then see if the cam turns without unduly heavy loading.
You don't want to wait until you fit the new gear before finding a potential problem. You will not harm anything by turning the cam while the crank stays still. Cam rotation will be anti-clockwise when viewed from the front. Mart. |
12-11-2014, 03:37 PM | #199 |
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Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart
I think they used plastic gear so it would be quite Chevy 6 also used them.
I think what happen the dist. shaft was binding and the gear was soft and sheared when trying to start it. The gears were turning fat and happy with oil and the dist was dry and rust and bound up. Removing the dist is easy to do. |
12-11-2014, 04:19 PM | #200 | |
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Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart
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