'36-'39 Wide Bolt Pattern

[Steve in Denver]

Does anyone know why Henry decided to go with the Wide Five, I think 10 1/4", bolt pattern. I have looked through the '35-'36 book and done some searching and not found any reason. I like them, I am just curious.
Steve

[51504bat]

I heard it was a weight saving issue but that could possibly just be urban legend BS because in1940 Henry went back to the good old 5 on 5 1/2 pattern. I've got them on my '39 p/u and the only potential problem is getting them balanced.

[RalphM]

But they sure did look good!

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by RalphM

But they sure did look good!

That is sure a purdy wheel. I have four of them on two old utility trailers. Will they interchange with '46 stuff by swapping hubs around?

[Mart]

GB: Yes, they are interchangeable.

Mart.

[RalphM]

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As Mart said, yes! My front brakes/backing plates are 1940/41, rears are 1946.

I've got to do the opposite conversion on my 35, it has 1939 brakes and wheels. I want to put the original 16" wires on it with 5-51/2 drums. So hopefully they go both ways!

[blucar]

I am not 100% sure of the exact reasons that Ford had for the '36 wheel design. I do know that the '36 wheel design is five pounds per wheel lighter than the '35 wires, for a weight saving of twenty-five pounds per vehicle. Twenty-five pounds per vehicle is huge when you multiply that by the number of vehicles Ford made, $$$ saved.
I read an article years ago that the wheel design, including the bolt pattern improved the handling and ride of the '36 Ford..
Can't remember what the origin of the article was.
RalphM; The '35 wire wheels will fit onto '40 and later drums, and they will fit your spindles if the spindles were converted to '40 and later, which most people use for hydraulic conversions, however, the '40 and later drums do not properly support the wire wheels. I believe Speedway sells an adapter kit that will support the wire wheel hub.

[Tinker]

I always thought it was for strength. Reason the roundy-round cars use them.

[mhsprecher]

If there is less unsprung weight, you get better ride and handling.

I had always heard it was to save weight, too, but have not read that definitively anywhere.

BTW, interviews with a lot of long-time Ford employees are on the Benson Ford Archives web site. Interesting information about why some things were done the way they were.

[Mart]

Just a hunch, but there were probably a few advantages.

Hub/wheel combo overall lighter.
Cheaper to produce.
The above are the selling points on the part of the manufacturer.

From the point of view of the customer:
More modern looking.
Easier (much easier) to clean.

I don't know the reason for reverting to a conventional steel wheel for the 40 model year, maybe the wide 5 was being viewed as a bit of an oddball, and a more "normal" wheel was appealing to customers.

Just my hunch, no proof on anything, but I do know how manufacturers think.

Mart.

[rotorwrench]

The trend seemed to be getting away from wire spokes at the time by many different manufacturers. It's too bad that no one is reproducing those drums. They seem to be getting harder to source as time goes by. The wheels aren't getting any easier to find either but some folks trade them out for standard drums & steelies.

[Tinker]

Couple post about why wide 5's in racing. Weight and strength.
For ford I'd guess, cost and weight as mentioned by others.

"The problem is... in most oval-track classes, steel wheels are required. So...
-you have to use steel (@~490#/cubic ft, no matter what alloy)
-they can only be made so thin and still survive
-the next best way to make them lighter is to put a bigger hole in the middle (IOW wide-5)

Wide five wheels allows the force put on the wheels as a car goes thru the corners to be put on the outside edge of that wheel.
On a 5x5 wheel the force is only on that 5 inch bolt circle, resulted in breaking the center out of the wheel when overexerted."

http://www.pro-touring.com/archive/i...p/t-18344.html

http://www.earlyfordv8.org/forum/vie...=18&Topic=5305

[50droptop]

Has anyone ever heard the collaboration rumors about Ford and Volkswagen regarding the wide 5? It's my understating the wide five showed up on both continents about the same time, although I don't know the exact year the VWs began using that bolt pattern.

[blucar]

Reputedly there was a thin line connection between Henry Ford and Adolph Hitler. When Hitler came up with the idea for the "Peoples Car" Volks Wagon, the designer of same, Porche came to America and reputedly toured the Ford plant (s)..
I have used the term "reputedly" because I have read an article about the Porche/Ford event, however, I have not been able to find the article in my library of auto history, etc.
The Volks Wagon came out in 1936, as to why the wheel bolts patterns are similar, it could have something to do with Fords idea that the design of his new disk wheel and bolt pattern added to the stability and smoothness of the ride.
It should be noted that hardly any manufacture used wire wheels after 1934. The '36 Ford disk wheels are a variation of the Artillery style of wheel which was adapted from the heavy field artillery guns of WWl for use on the large heavy cars of the mid '30's and the more common GM and Mopar models starting in '35.
Wheel bolt patterns is one of those subjects that have very little apparent meaning. Could it be simply a matter of having a product that is not interchangeable with any other manufactures vehicle.. Hmmmm