The Ford Barn

P.S. · 02-04-2013, 01:09 AM

Plagued by carb troubles for months, and currently struggling to get by with a "professionally rebuilt" Zenith that runs way too rich, I'm beginning to consider a sincere grasp at straws.

Has anyone bought and ran one of the "new" Zenith carburetors from Sac Vintage?

http://www.vintageford.com/sect_sear...r%20Zenith%20A

How did it run for you? Any troubles?

Farrell In Vancouver · 02-04-2013, 09:37 AM

Not sure where Dad picked up his "new" Zenith but when I tried it out on my coupe I found it a bit wanting. My carb would pull hard right through second gear, this one seemed to break up and sputter a lot. It settled out in third and purred nicely at idle, but so far I could not make it happy with the hardest working gear on my car, 2nd.
I'll experiment with it and compare the jet sizes later, for now I put the old one back on and everythings peachey again.

steve s · 02-04-2013, 09:49 AM

I can't answer your question but I can share your pain. I too went thru countless "professional" rebuilds, including some that added the ugly external balancing hose for air filter use. Finally, I coughed up the bucks for one of the brand new Mark reproductions of the Zenith 1, which I assume the carb you are asking about is a modification of. After returning the first one because it refused to run, the second one was well worth the money--I drove it for several years. My problems were gone, EXCEPT for vapor lock, which eventually drove me to the final solution, which you might also want to consider:

This is a more modern--1980's vintage--Zenith made/modified for the Model A. Vapor lock problems are gone and it's impossible to stall it on a hard stop. And, it's balanced internally for air filter use, although it's not easy to hang an air filter on it. ALso, need to modify fuel line or connections for pipe thread fitting.

Of course, many Ford Barners will insist that your stock Zenith would work great, if only you had it correctly rebuilt, like THEY did--and it will never vapor lock--and it will never stall.

Steve

BillLee/Chandler, TX · 02-04-2013, 10:02 AM

Oh, boy! Now the fight begins!

Steve Plucker · 02-04-2013, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillLee/Chandler, TX

Oh, boy! Now the fight begins!

Bill,

I do not understand...why should ther be a "fight"?

People here are just relating their experineces with these new carbs which is kind of nice to know.

Personally, I would not buy a "new" carb such as these as I have had not one bit of trouble with the originals for which I like to use and I can thank Mr. Ron Rude of Quincy, California for his expertise on rebuilding them for me.

Pluck

MikeK · 02-04-2013, 10:18 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BillLee/Chandler, TX

Oh, boy! Now the fight begins!

Why would there be a fight? P.S. asked about the Reproduced Z and so far has received two cogent responses.

leadpot · 02-04-2013, 10:27 AM

After many carb problems, rebuilds etc I bought one like Steve S. Works great & no further problems, am happy with the purchase. I would like to have a good working original but suspect they are hard to find these days. Most of the originals have probably been rebuilt more than once in their lifetime by an "expert". Know there are many competent rebuilders out there but finding one is sometimes difficult.

Wick · 02-04-2013, 11:01 AM

I was going thru a pile of Zenith parts over the weekend picking and sorting. Something I found,(these are used parts) was the difference in the Gross jet fuel openings where the gas flowed into the jet,some were alot bigger then others.

On the Tilly's same thing with the needle and seat.Some of the needles and seats were larger the others.

Will this make a difference in how fast the bowl fills up with fuel.....its possible,but would it effect preformance say in a hard 2nd gear pull?
Wick

P.S. · 02-04-2013, 11:33 AM

Thank you for the replies, guys.

Thank you Steve for the info. I did read the thread about those carbs. It may be a consideration, but this particular question has to do with the new carbs available from a dealer within driving distance for me (Sacramento Vintage Ford).

The deal is, I own 3 carburetors for the Model A, and only 1 car. Not one of the 3 carbs works right. The car came with a Tillotson that ran OK, then just stopped. Cleaning it out had no affect, so I sent it to the Tillotson carb "guru" for a pricey complete rebuild. Rebuilder said one of the jets broke. It came back "rebuilt" and wouldn't run at all. I sent it back to him and it will be a long time before it is back.

I own 2 Zenith carbs. One was purchased "rebuilt" from one of the gurus here on Fordbarn and didn't run at all. The other Zenith was purchased from someone on ebay that is supposed to be the Zenith "guru" and it does run, but way too rich and not smooth like the Tillotson did (when it was working). At least the car is on the road with Zenith #2, but the sooty plugs and 10 MPG just sucks. My goal was to have one good working carb on the car and one good working spare under the back seat (along with the good spare distributor). I have one mediocre working carb and no spares.

I sent the dead "newly rebuilt" Zenith to a friend but it could be months before that is back. The friend is known here, and had incredible information and left me with the impression that he is most competent. No question the carb will come back working well, and I will be indebted to him.

However, this whole thing has really got me frustrated. When one buys a car part for their modern car and it doesn't work, one returns it to the store and gets another or a refund. That isn't practical or always possible with a carb rebuild job. What, do you send it back and ask them to put your old parts back in and refund your money? How many times must you send it back and forth until it is right? So, I wanted to know if the Sac Vintage sold carbs work well. If some of you guys have good luck with them, then I'd consider going over there and buying one also. Then, if it doesn't work, I can just take it right back as you would any other part for your modern car.

I'm just so sick and tired of the subpar parts available for the Model A, and really frustrated with the vendor attitude "well, if you check this, adjust that, change that, then it will work", I just want to buy something that works. No messing around, no Bravo Sierra! A local vendor is a must. Having to deal with someone on the phone vs. standing directly in front of them isn't appealing. If the part is defective, I'd rather be standing in front of the person who sold it to me and have the ability to exchange or receive a full refund.

Most of you guys are "car guys", but I am not. I just want stuff to work. And, I want "experts" to be honest and to not sent out products that they know aren't perfect.

Purdy Swoft · 02-04-2013, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wick

I was going thru a pile of Zenith parts over the weekend picking and sorting. Something I found,(these are used parts) was the difference in the Gross jet fuel openings where the gas flowed into the jet,some were alot bigger then others.

On the Tilly's same thing with the needle and seat.Some of the needles and seats were larger the others.

Will this make a difference in how fast the bowl fills up with fuel.....its possible,but would it effect preformance say in a hard 2nd gear pull?
Wick

I think that the smaller opening would have to make a difference. I think that it would have the same effect as haveing the float set too low. This could cause the engine to be starving for more fuel. I've found that a too low float setting will cause spitting , back firing and loss of power.

ford31 · 02-04-2013, 12:05 PM

my 31 has the side bowl would not want to part with that,has electric shutoff also would not part with, have not touched or adjusted carb in 5 years, when i aquired pickup, i do run pure fuel never any additves, my fuel shut off is on a switch can run carb dry by turning switch off dont do that anymore,it does need a warm up period in cold weather,maybe a minute or so

Jordan · 02-04-2013, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P.S.

Plagued by carb troubles for months, and currently struggling to get by with a "professionally rebuilt" Zenith that runs way too rich, I'm beginning to consider a sincere grasp at straws.

Has anyone bought and ran one of the "new" Zenith carburetors from Sac Vintage?

http://www.vintageford.com/sect_sear...r%20Zenith%20A

How did it run for you? Any troubles?

$425 is a lot to pay for that kind of carb

P.S. · 02-04-2013, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordan

$425 is a lot to pay for that kind of carb

I agree. However, my frustration with this has reached its plateau. I need a good working carb and a good spare. And, if writing a big check is required, so be it. I just want this chapter of "Model A frustration" to be behind me!

1931 flamingo · 02-04-2013, 12:33 PM

Doesn't Sac Vintage have a weekly "gathering"?? If so, as you're within driving distance, drive over and make some in person inquiries of those attending, or ask Sac Vintage for some referrals of folks who have purchased and are using one. JMO
Paul in CT

Tom Endy · 02-04-2013, 12:44 PM

Rebuildable Zeniths are still around at swap meets for less than $50. If the castings are not damaged they can be rebuilt for little cost and will perform well if properly rebuilt. I will admit they can at times be frustrating. For that reason I will not sell a Zenith I rebuilt unless I have run it on my Model A for a few days for 20 or 30 miles. Then I offer a full money back guarantee because many times the customer is unhappy because it does not perform properly on his car because there are problems with his car, not the Zenith. If they bring it back I install it on my car and take them for a ride in it. If they still want their money back I return it.

When rebuilding a Zenith you cannot overlook anything. Go to www.ocmafc.com. On the menu at left scroll to "Tech Articles" and click. It will bring up a new menu. At the top is my name, click on it and it will bring up a series of articles. Scroll to the one on Zenith restoration. The process described is what I do to each Zenith I restore. The process is tedious and time consuming, however, you cannot skip any of it if you want the Zenith to perform properly. The tedious parts are flow checking and resizing the four jets and setting the float level and getting it to hold.

Tom Endy

P.S. · 02-04-2013, 01:13 PM

Thank you Tom.

I previously read your article, it is very well done. It also made it clear that this is something I shouldn't tackle myself. I do not possess the mechanical aptitude for such things. Though, for most of the car's refurbishing, I have learned many new mechanical skills. Luckily, the thing our car needed most when we bought it was electrical, and that is my area of expertise. The electrical systems are absolutely perfect now, and done with the highest regard and scrutiny.

It's very simple- I just want a carb that works right and has some warranty so that if it doesn't, the seller is close enough to visit in person and make it right. Two carbs purchased from "experts", including one highly regarded as 'the' expert here on Fordbarn were highly disappointing. I have discovered that people here on Fordbarn are generally nice, and most have very good information, but buying from someone here on Fordbarn is a big mistake. Even some "experts" here will sell you something that doesn't work and then expect you to know how to fix it yourself.

The problem isn't the car. A borrowed carb runs absolutely perfect. However, the owner of the carb will not sell it, I need to find my own. And I have reached the end of my patience with "experts" to rebuild them for hire. I cannot put into words how frustrated I am with this. I wish to purchase a new carb that works right and be done with it. Therefore, wondering if anyone has bought the new Zenith from Sac Vintage, and how it worked for them. Good or bad, input is appreciated.

Chuck Sea/Tac · 02-04-2013, 01:25 PM

Steve S that carb came from Port Townsend Wa and cost just over $200??
Chuck

barnstuf · 02-04-2013, 02:05 PM

The only prime source for the reproduction Zenith that duplicates the original is MARK AUTO. It has been my experience the newly made carburetors are assembled but not tested when sent to their various dealer sources. Most perform as they should, but there are varying problems with some. These problems should all be fixable. I have had two that performed beautifully unless topped out in second gear when they would "stumble" or on the open road in high gear would "stumble at around 45-50 mph. The cure for both of these was to redrill the hole in the side of the secondary well which was a hair under specs in size. Your problem and your cure may differ.

Steve Plucker · 02-04-2013, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P.S.

Thank you Tom.

I previously read your article, it is very well done. It also made it clear that this is something I shouldn't tackle myself. I do not possess the mechanical aptitude for such things. Though, for most of the car's refurbishing, I have learned many new mechanical skills. Luckily, the thing our car needed most when we bought it was electrical, and that is my area of expertise. The electrical systems are absolutely perfect now, and done with the highest regard and scrutiny.

It's very simple- I just want a carb that works right and has some warranty so that if it doesn't, the seller is close enough to visit in person and make it right. Two carbs purchased from "experts", including one highly regarded as 'the' expert here on Fordbarn were highly disappointing. I have discovered that people here on Fordbarn are generally nice, and most have very good information, but buying from someone here on Fordbarn is a big mistake. Even some "experts" here will sell you something that doesn't work and then expect you to know how to fix it yourself.

The problem isn't the car. A borrowed carb runs absolutely perfect. However, the owner of the carb will not sell it, I need to find my own. And I have reached the end of my patience with "experts" to rebuild them for hire. I cannot put into words how frustrated I am with this. I wish to purchase a new carb that works right and be done with it. Therefore, wondering if anyone has bought the new Zenith from Sac Vintage, and how it worked for them. Good or bad, input is appreciated.

Give Mr. Ron Rude a call...He is in Quincy, CA...Close by to you and is Very dependable...530-283-0768...OR have Mr. Endy do you one up right...very dependable also...both are member of the Model A Fourm here on Ford Barn (as you may know)!

Pluck

P.S. · 02-04-2013, 02:49 PM

Thanks, Steve.

I'm not sure that either of the gentlemen you mentioned are close enough to me to visit in person. As mentioned, I am absolutely at wit's end with this, and no longer trust anyone whom I would have to deal through the mail.

I'm sure Mr. Endy knows what he is doing. I did send him a PM earlier this morning with an inquiry, but have not yet received his response. If I were to try one more mail-order carb, I wouldn't even consider tying one from anyone else but Mr. Endy.

With that said, I'd still much rather deal with a vendor that is within convenient driving distance. I've been 'burned' 3 times already, including by one highly regarded Zenith rebuilder here on the Fordbarn. At some point, one must draw a line. That is what I have done here.

02-04-2013, 01:09 AM	#1
P.S. Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: California Posts: 1,699	Anyone ran one of the "new" Sacramento Vintage Ford carburetors? Plagued by carb troubles for months, and currently struggling to get by with a "professionally rebuilt" Zenith that runs way too rich, I'm beginning to consider a sincere grasp at straws. Has anyone bought and ran one of the "new" Zenith carburetors from Sac Vintage? http://www.vintageford.com/sect_sear...r%20Zenith%20A How did it run for you? Any troubles?

02-04-2013, 09:49 AM	#3
steve s Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Kalamazoo Posts: 1,656	Re: Anyone ran one of the "new" Sacramento Vintage Ford carburetors? I can't answer your question but I can share your pain. I too went thru countless "professional" rebuilds, including some that added the ugly external balancing hose for air filter use. Finally, I coughed up the bucks for one of the brand new Mark reproductions of the Zenith 1, which I assume the carb you are asking about is a modification of. After returning the first one because it refused to run, the second one was well worth the money--I drove it for several years. My problems were gone, EXCEPT for vapor lock, which eventually drove me to the final solution, which you might also want to consider: This is a more modern--1980's vintage--Zenith made/modified for the Model A. Vapor lock problems are gone and it's impossible to stall it on a hard stop. And, it's balanced internally for air filter use, although it's not easy to hang an air filter on it. ALso, need to modify fuel line or connections for pipe thread fitting. Of course, many Ford Barners will insist that your stock Zenith would work great, if only you had it correctly rebuilt, like THEY did--and it will never vapor lock--and it will never stall. Steve

02-04-2013, 10:02 AM	#4
BillLee/Chandler, TX Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: The sticks of east Texas Posts: 474	Re: Anyone ran one of the "new" Sacramento Vintage Ford carburetors? Oh, boy! Now the fight begins! __________________ Bill Lee http://www.CedarCreekAs.org

02-04-2013, 10:27 AM	#7
leadpot Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Blanchester, Ohio Posts: 109	Re: Anyone ran one of the "new" Sacramento Vintage Ford carburetors? After many carb problems, rebuilds etc I bought one like Steve S. Works great & no further problems, am happy with the purchase. I would like to have a good working original but suspect they are hard to find these days. Most of the originals have probably been rebuilt more than once in their lifetime by an "expert". Know there are many competent rebuilders out there but finding one is sometimes difficult.

02-04-2013, 11:01 AM	#8
Wick Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Gwynn's Island Va Posts: 1,392	Re: Anyone ran one of the "new" Sacramento Vintage Ford carburetors? I was going thru a pile of Zenith parts over the weekend picking and sorting. Something I found,(these are used parts) was the difference in the Gross jet fuel openings where the gas flowed into the jet,some were alot bigger then others. On the Tilly's same thing with the needle and seat.Some of the needles and seats were larger the others. Will this make a difference in how fast the bowl fills up with fuel.....its possible,but would it effect preformance say in a hard 2nd gear pull? Wick

02-04-2013, 09:37 AM	#2
Farrell In Vancouver Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Pitt Meadows BC Posts: 1,003	Re: Anyone ran one of the "new" Sacramento Vintage Ford carburetors? Not sure where Dad picked up his "new" Zenith but when I tried it out on my coupe I found it a bit wanting. My carb would pull hard right through second gear, this one seemed to break up and sputter a lot. It settled out in third and purred nicely at idle, but so far I could not make it happy with the hardest working gear on my car, 2nd. I'll experiment with it and compare the jet sizes later, for now I put the old one back on and everythings peachey again.

02-04-2013, 11:33 AM	#9
P.S. Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: California Posts: 1,699	Re: Anyone ran one of the "new" Sacramento Vintage Ford carburetors? Thank you for the replies, guys. Thank you Steve for the info. I did read the thread about those carbs. It may be a consideration, but this particular question has to do with the new carbs available from a dealer within driving distance for me (Sacramento Vintage Ford). The deal is, I own 3 carburetors for the Model A, and only 1 car. Not one of the 3 carbs works right. The car came with a Tillotson that ran OK, then just stopped. Cleaning it out had no affect, so I sent it to the Tillotson carb "guru" for a pricey complete rebuild. Rebuilder said one of the jets broke. It came back "rebuilt" and wouldn't run at all. I sent it back to him and it will be a long time before it is back. I own 2 Zenith carbs. One was purchased "rebuilt" from one of the gurus here on Fordbarn and didn't run at all. The other Zenith was purchased from someone on ebay that is supposed to be the Zenith "guru" and it does run, but way too rich and not smooth like the Tillotson did (when it was working). At least the car is on the road with Zenith #2, but the sooty plugs and 10 MPG just sucks. My goal was to have one good working carb on the car and one good working spare under the back seat (along with the good spare distributor). I have one mediocre working carb and no spares. I sent the dead "newly rebuilt" Zenith to a friend but it could be months before that is back. The friend is known here, and had incredible information and left me with the impression that he is most competent. No question the carb will come back working well, and I will be indebted to him. However, this whole thing has really got me frustrated. When one buys a car part for their modern car and it doesn't work, one returns it to the store and gets another or a refund. That isn't practical or always possible with a carb rebuild job. What, do you send it back and ask them to put your old parts back in and refund your money? How many times must you send it back and forth until it is right? So, I wanted to know if the Sac Vintage sold carbs work well. If some of you guys have good luck with them, then I'd consider going over there and buying one also. Then, if it doesn't work, I can just take it right back as you would any other part for your modern car. I'm just so sick and tired of the subpar parts available for the Model A, and really frustrated with the vendor attitude "well, if you check this, adjust that, change that, then it will work", I just want to buy something that works. No messing around, no Bravo Sierra! A local vendor is a must. Having to deal with someone on the phone vs. standing directly in front of them isn't appealing. If the part is defective, I'd rather be standing in front of the person who sold it to me and have the ability to exchange or receive a full refund. Most of you guys are "car guys", but I am not. I just want stuff to work. And, I want "experts" to be honest and to not sent out products that they know aren't perfect.

02-04-2013, 12:05 PM	#11
ford31 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Rocky Mount,MO. Posts: 410	Re: Anyone ran one of the "new" Sacramento Vintage Ford carburetors? my 31 has the side bowl would not want to part with that,has electric shutoff also would not part with, have not touched or adjusted carb in 5 years, when i aquired pickup, i do run pure fuel never any additves, my fuel shut off is on a switch can run carb dry by turning switch off dont do that anymore,it does need a warm up period in cold weather,maybe a minute or so

02-04-2013, 12:33 PM	#14
1931 flamingo Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: new britain,ct 06052 Posts: 9,390	Re: Anyone ran one of the "new" Sacramento Vintage Ford carburetors? Doesn't Sac Vintage have a weekly "gathering"?? If so, as you're within driving distance, drive over and make some in person inquiries of those attending, or ask Sac Vintage for some referrals of folks who have purchased and are using one. JMO Paul in CT

02-04-2013, 12:44 PM	#15
Tom Endy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern California Posts: 3,131	Re: Anyone ran one of the "new" Sacramento Vintage Ford carburetors? Rebuildable Zeniths are still around at swap meets for less than $50. If the castings are not damaged they can be rebuilt for little cost and will perform well if properly rebuilt. I will admit they can at times be frustrating. For that reason I will not sell a Zenith I rebuilt unless I have run it on my Model A for a few days for 20 or 30 miles. Then I offer a full money back guarantee because many times the customer is unhappy because it does not perform properly on his car because there are problems with his car, not the Zenith. If they bring it back I install it on my car and take them for a ride in it. If they still want their money back I return it. When rebuilding a Zenith you cannot overlook anything. Go to www.ocmafc.com. On the menu at left scroll to "Tech Articles" and click. It will bring up a new menu. At the top is my name, click on it and it will bring up a series of articles. Scroll to the one on Zenith restoration. The process described is what I do to each Zenith I restore. The process is tedious and time consuming, however, you cannot skip any of it if you want the Zenith to perform properly. The tedious parts are flow checking and resizing the four jets and setting the float level and getting it to hold. Tom Endy

02-04-2013, 01:13 PM	#16
P.S. Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: California Posts: 1,699	Re: Anyone ran one of the "new" Sacramento Vintage Ford carburetors? Thank you Tom. I previously read your article, it is very well done. It also made it clear that this is something I shouldn't tackle myself. I do not possess the mechanical aptitude for such things. Though, for most of the car's refurbishing, I have learned many new mechanical skills. Luckily, the thing our car needed most when we bought it was electrical, and that is my area of expertise. The electrical systems are absolutely perfect now, and done with the highest regard and scrutiny. It's very simple- I just want a carb that works right and has some warranty so that if it doesn't, the seller is close enough to visit in person and make it right. Two carbs purchased from "experts", including one highly regarded as 'the' expert here on Fordbarn were highly disappointing. I have discovered that people here on Fordbarn are generally nice, and most have very good information, but buying from someone here on Fordbarn is a big mistake. Even some "experts" here will sell you something that doesn't work and then expect you to know how to fix it yourself. The problem isn't the car. A borrowed carb runs absolutely perfect. However, the owner of the carb will not sell it, I need to find my own. And I have reached the end of my patience with "experts" to rebuild them for hire. I cannot put into words how frustrated I am with this. I wish to purchase a new carb that works right and be done with it. Therefore, wondering if anyone has bought the new Zenith from Sac Vintage, and how it worked for them. Good or bad, input is appreciated.

02-04-2013, 01:25 PM	#17
Chuck Sea/Tac Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Between Seattle & Tacoma Posts: 2,354	Re: Anyone ran one of the "new" Sacramento Vintage Ford carburetors? Steve S that carb came from Port Townsend Wa and cost just over $200?? Chuck

02-04-2013, 02:05 PM	#18
barnstuf Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Cape Cod MA Posts: 2,840	Re: Anyone ran one of the "new" Sacramento Vintage Ford carburetors? The only prime source for the reproduction Zenith that duplicates the original is MARK AUTO. It has been my experience the newly made carburetors are assembled but not tested when sent to their various dealer sources. Most perform as they should, but there are varying problems with some. These problems should all be fixable. I have had two that performed beautifully unless topped out in second gear when they would "stumble" or on the open road in high gear would "stumble at around 45-50 mph. The cure for both of these was to redrill the hole in the side of the secondary well which was a hair under specs in size. Your problem and your cure may differ.

02-04-2013, 02:49 PM	#20
P.S. Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: California Posts: 1,699	Re: Anyone ran one of the "new" Sacramento Vintage Ford carburetors? Thanks, Steve. I'm not sure that either of the gentlemen you mentioned are close enough to me to visit in person. As mentioned, I am absolutely at wit's end with this, and no longer trust anyone whom I would have to deal through the mail. I'm sure Mr. Endy knows what he is doing. I did send him a PM earlier this morning with an inquiry, but have not yet received his response. If I were to try one more mail-order carb, I wouldn't even consider tying one from anyone else but Mr. Endy. With that said, I'd still much rather deal with a vendor that is within convenient driving distance. I've been 'burned' 3 times already, including by one highly regarded Zenith rebuilder here on the Fordbarn. At some point, one must draw a line. That is what I have done here.