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10-25-2016, 07:30 PM | #1 |
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Peter Tommasini metal shaping class with two Fordbarn members
More preparations today, setting up the wheeling machines, touching up the buck contours and sorting thru the tools to be used. The Porsche US racing team is located in Rock Hill, and we took a look at the race shop this afternoon. Jim Hery and Peter Tommasini getting ready for the morning influx of students. I have moved the speedster out of the shop as I intend to gather as much info as possible about the wheeling machines and the Bugatti fenders. The bucks shown are for the Bugatti front and rear fenders, the headlight bucket and two speedster bucks, one for the nose and one for the cowl section. There are two Fordbarners that will be in attendance. One is working on a cowl and the other an unknown project at this time. I have a two door door skin that I want to build.
PeterClassTues 002.jpg PeterClassTues 009.jpg PeterClassTues 013.jpg PeterClassTues 014.jpg PeterClassTues 021.jpg
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Uncle Bud says "too soon old, too late smart!" Last edited by RockHillWill; 11-04-2016 at 12:15 PM. |
10-25-2016, 10:18 PM | #2 |
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Re: Peter Tommasini metal shaping class with two Fordbarn members is about to begin
Out in Hershey this year, I came across a guy named Langley or something,From Ohio (IIRC) who did classic parts reproduction and he had a masterpiece. The part was a front fender for a 1938 Horch. It was a rather large fender made up of 10 panels. And with it was the "Gauge" that was a plywood mockup reminiscent of a layout of the pattern of a ship's hull profile. The welding (TIG) on the fender was excellent, in fact, everything was excellent. I realize this doesn't have much relevance to what you're doing, but it was great to see a young guy doing such beautiful work.
Terry |
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10-26-2016, 04:52 AM | #3 |
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Re: Peter Tommasini metal shaping class with two Fordbarn members is about to begin
Terry, that is the purpose of classes like this. It is an ongoing effort to pass on the age old tradition of panel beating. There are a number of both young and 'newbies' that attend these Peter Tommasini classes. I think the 'gauges' that you speak of are similar to the wooden bucks seen in the pictures above. They are a pattern to which you fit individual panels to make the finished product. For these aluminum Bugatti panels and the Model A parts as well, we will be gas welding the panels together. It is generally thought that the gas/torch welding produces a more malleable joint and that makes it more usable in the wheeling machines and hammering applications that do away with the cracking and fracturing of the welds. Peters entire program is built around the fact that all that is actually needed to do metal shaping is an English wheel, a wooden stump and a selection of hammers and dollies.
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10-26-2016, 09:54 AM | #4 |
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Re: Peter Tommasini metal shaping class with two Fordbarn members is about to begin
Is there really a demand to reproduce your own Model A Ford parts ? Wayne.
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10-26-2016, 07:18 PM | #5 |
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Re: Peter Tommasini metal shaping class with two Fordbarn members is about to begin
More pictures - The first day of class. Peter's mastery of the simple and obvious makes learning a pleasure. His knowledge of English wheel design is obvious in the product he provides. He is true master metal shaper.
PTCLASSWED 003.jpg PTCLASSWED 005.jpg PTCLASSWED 007.jpg PTCLASSWED 008.jpg PTCLASSWED 009.jpg PTCLASSWED 011.jpg PTCLASSWED 015.jpg PTCLASSWED 016.jpg PTCLASSWED 021.jpg PTCLASSWED 023.jpg PTCLASSWED 024.jpg PTCLASSWED 025.jpg
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10-27-2016, 06:23 AM | #6 |
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Re: Peter Tommasini metal shaping class with two Fordbarn members is about to begin
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Great pictures BTW! |
10-27-2016, 08:27 AM | #7 |
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Re: Peter Tommasini metal shaping class with two Fordbarn members is about to begin
Will, Thanks for the pictures! One was particularly interesting to me. The one where he was resurfacing a hammer. Doesn't seem like much, but it's the only person, except myself, I've seen do that. The reaffirmation is always needed when you're working alone, just by instincts and misapplied skills.
Oh yes. Those wooden "Bucks" are what I called a Gauge in my first post. Terry |
10-27-2016, 09:28 AM | #8 |
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Re: Peter Tommasini metal shaping class with two Fordbarn members is about to begin
The repro Model A fenders sold by Snyder's and others come with a caveat "sold as is, require reworking to fit." Doesn't anyone sell new fenders that fit, other than fiberglass??
Is there anyone who does the rework on a regular basis. This isn't something I can do myself and would think there'd be a demand if someone specialized in doing the work. |
10-27-2016, 07:40 PM | #9 |
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Re: Peter Tommasini metal shaping class with two Fordbarn members is about to begin
Brent: that Mechammer is on loan from Jimmy Matthews, who purchased the first Tommasini wheeling machine that got that 'ball' rolling. It is an excellent tool, very well made and extremely adaptable and well made.
I have spent the better part of the last three weeks with Peter Tommasini, travelling 7-8 states, attending three of his classes, many, many meals and I find that I am not capable of learning all that he is capable of teaching in that amount of time. Peter is an absolute magician regarding the simple tasks required for metal shaping. He has had 47 years as a master metal craftsman, and up until 4 years ago, did it all with just an English wheel, a stump, a variety of hammers and a brake and bead roller. Amazing. It has become apparent that there are many opinions about how to go about metal shaping, particularly the use of the English wheel, But it has become apparent to me there is one preferred design of wheeling machine, along with the technic using that style machine to achieve RAPID and ACCURATE results. That comment will appear confrontational, but I am willing to back up that statement with my newly discovered perspective. Lots of folks using lots of style wheels, can, and have made many terrific, nice looking panels, will give an argument to that statement, but they have spent un-necessary amounts of time to achieve them. I have been just over whelmed by the amount of time, research and expenditures done to arrive at the current configuration of Peters wheeling machine, and am most appreciative of the time he has allowed me to spend with him. PeterclassThu 007.jpg PeterclassThu 008.jpg PeterclassThu 010.jpg PeterclassThu 013.jpg PeterclassThu 015.jpg PeterclassThu 016.jpg PeterclassThu 019.jpg PeterclassThu 023.jpg PeterclassThu 029.jpg PeterclassThu 030.jpg PeterclassThu 034.jpg PeterclassThu 035.jpg PeterclassThu 036.jpg PeterclassThu 037.jpg
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Uncle Bud says "too soon old, too late smart!" Last edited by RockHillWill; 10-29-2016 at 06:28 AM. |
10-27-2016, 10:12 PM | #10 |
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Re: Peter Tommasini metal shaping class with two Fordbarn members is about to begin
Will, That stump reminds me of making a patch panel for the right front door of my Town Sedan. Only I was using an old anvil. I had an old anvil with a bad surface and I resurfaced it only I left a depression in one side. This depression was just what I needed to make the the belly/curvature of the patch. It worked like a charm!
Looking at the depression in that stump, I'd say i looks like it was made with the tip of a chainsaw bar. Terry |
10-27-2016, 10:28 PM | #11 |
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Re: Peter Tommasini metal shaping class with two Fordbarn members is about to begin
Is he teaching how to make just Model A parts?
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10-28-2016, 12:11 AM | #12 | |
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Re: Peter Tommasini metal shaping class with two Fordbarn members is about to begin
Quote:
Look here for the how to's to fix them. http://www.modelahouse.com/tech/fender/index.html
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10-28-2016, 05:59 AM | #13 |
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Re: Peter Tommasini metal shaping class with two Fordbarn members is about to begin
Terry, the indentation was made from using a ball end router with a tapered and angled fixture made by Jimmy Matthews per Peter Tommasini. The popular round indentation, most commonly seen in the wooden stumps, is apparently a design that has been passed on and on with no apparent good use other than making small bowls. The use of the stump with the open ended configuration is most useful for making shrinking 'tucks' along many shapes and sizes.
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10-28-2016, 06:41 AM | #14 |
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Re: Peter Tommasini metal shaping class with two Fordbarn members is about to begin
Will I wish I could have been there this year. It looks like another great weekend. I hope to be able make the redneck roundup though.
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10-28-2016, 09:46 AM | #15 |
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Re: Peter Tommasini metal shaping class with two Fordbarn members is about to begin
Great article. Thanks. Unfortunately beyond my expertise but will save the info to pass on to someone in the future who can do the work.
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10-28-2016, 06:50 PM | #16 |
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Re: Peter Tommasini metal shaping class with two Fordbarn members is about to begin
Here are pictures from todays class (Friday).
PeterClassFri 033.jpg PeterClassFri 028.jpg PeterClassFri 019.jpg PeterClassFri 016.jpg PeterClassFri 014.jpg PeterClassFri 010.jpg PeterClassFri 009.jpg
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10-30-2016, 05:36 AM | #17 |
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Re: Peter Tommasini metal shaping class with two Fordbarn members is about to begin
Pics of last day of class.
PeterClassSat 003.jpg PeterClassSat 005.jpg PeterClassSat 009.jpg PeterClassSat 013.jpg PeterClassSat 014.jpg PeterClassSat 015.jpg PeterClassSat 017.jpg PeterClassSat 018.jpg PeterClassSat 019.jpg PeterClassSat 021.jpg PeterClassSat 025.jpg PeterClassSat 031.jpg PeterClassSat 033.jpg
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10-31-2016, 08:50 AM | #18 |
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Re: Peter Tommasini metal shaping class with two Fordbarn members is about to begin
Thanks to fellow Fordbarners Barry Duckworth from South Carolina and Gary Kelley, from my old home town of Gregory, Michigan. They both seemed to pick up many tricks and I am certain that it will make some things in their Model A restorations some what easier to accomplish, without having to pay some one to do it for them. Thank you guys for attending.
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11-01-2016, 06:57 AM | #19 |
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Re: Peter Tommasini metal shaping class with two Fordbarn members is about to begin
IMG_0274.jpg
Gary brought the cowl for his Gordon air compressor for the normal rust repair at the bottom. He also had some other parts he had picked up. The cowl was what I guessed was a commercial cowl, as it had no windshield posts and didnt look like they had been cut off. I thought I had pictures of the top of the cowl, but... I enjoyed talking to Gary about his compressor, as I have only seen pictures before. Another neat piece of history. Sorry about the sideways picture, I dont know why it did that and I dont know how to fix it. Last edited by Rex_A_Lott; 11-01-2016 at 07:13 AM. |
11-02-2016, 05:31 AM | #20 |
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Re: Peter Tommasini metal shaping class with two Fordbarn members is about to begin
First I want to Thank Will for opening up his shop and hosting this class. I learned a lot and would not hesitate to recommend this class to anyone with the slightest interest in sheet metal at any level.
Here are before and after pictures of my compressor cowl corners that we repaired as part of a 'class project'. The right side is not quite done yet. You can see the arc where it is marked to be cut out for the compressor air tank. What really amazed me is that we actually formed these 'patch' panels out of a flat piece of steel right there during the class. |
11-03-2016, 07:19 AM | #21 | |
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Re: Peter Tommasini metal shaping class with two Fordbarn members is about to begin
Quote:
Will was an awesome host, I was really amazed at some of the equipment he has collected and created. He also offered to help me on any Model A projects I had and after looking at his two Henry awards, I realized that there is a wealth of knowledge there that I cant just run down to the store and buy...it only came through years of research hard work! |
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11-04-2016, 06:57 AM | #22 |
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Re: Peter Tommasini metal shaping class with two Fordbarn members is about to begin
I too, would like to thank Gary for making his first post. I hope it is not the last. I would also like to ask him to post some pictures of the top area of that cowl that he had at the class. It is a commercial style, and I would like to look at it again and invite other 'barners' to comment on it as well.
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Uncle Bud says "too soon old, too late smart!" Last edited by RockHillWill; 11-04-2016 at 12:16 PM. |
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11-04-2016, 05:42 PM | #23 |
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Re: Peter Tommasini metal shaping class with two Fordbarn members
Just as an aside, the orders for last shipment of Tommasini wheeling machines have been accumulating. I have just taken an order for another wheeling machine, leaving only one (maybe two) left. Peter will be back in Australia in early December and have them painted and packaged towards the end of December. Delivery will take 6-8 weeks after that time. I will keep folks posted. This might not appear be of a large interest here on this site, but their may be a discerning quality automobile restorer visiting, or lurking in the background that would be interested in a professional tool of this caliber.
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11-07-2016, 10:00 AM | #24 |
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Re: Peter Tommasini metal shaping class with two Fordbarn members
I have just taken an order for another wheeling machine, leaving only one left. Peter will be back in Australia in early December and have them painted and packaged towards the end of December. Delivery will take 6-8 weeks after that time. I will continue to keep folks posted.
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11-08-2016, 08:49 AM | #25 |
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Re: Peter Tommasini metal shaping class with two Fordbarn members
During the class, a discussion arose regarding a statement that I have made that mentioned the previous week, while at Jim's, I took a nice smooth panel made in Peters machine and when installed into another (fabricated) machine it put marks in the panel.
This test was done when I was at Jim Hery's measuring more on the Bugatti project. The test machine that we used was one that I fabricated using some leftover parts that Jim had in his shop. I have long been suspect of the segments made when making a fabricated wheeling machine, so I drew up a design in SolidWorks that I felt would eliminate the erratic loading of different segment lengths. I made several tests that made me feel good about vertical deflection, and went forward with the build, only to discover that I had underestimated the concern about left-to-right movement of the upper wheel in regards to the lower anvil. It was my determination at that time that the issue with the fabricated wheel was that it moved side to side when the smooth panel made on Peters machine was inserted into my machine. The movement off-center of the wheels resulted in a lowering of the pressure, and when the panel was pushed or pulled back between the rollers the pressure was regained only to be lessened again. Erratic movement with this situation is what I believed to be the issue. This highlights one of the major advantages to Peter wheeling machine design. In my thinking, I was trying to eliminate the segmented loading of the frame by using a water jet contour to provide a linear response to a load at the wheels. I have included some pictures of my machine without the top and bottom plates and one with the plates in place. The difference that I am trying to highlight is the cross section at the lower back portion of the frame. My machine cross section left to right is constant, and I feel that it is suitable for the vertical loading, but grossly insufficient in the left-to-right 'twist' concern. A close look at Peters machine will see that he has addressed this issue by gradually changing the cross section from a vertical load concern to a horizontal load concern, resulting in a wider cross section at the base of the backbone. BenchWheel.jpg JIMS1 003b.jpg Oblong 008.jpg Oblong 040.jpg Oblong 083.jpg
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