Salvage title perception question

[flexiheep]

Ok, long story short, my A was hit by a drunk driver (charges for DWI and wreckless driving on him), I am now past the repair cost and on to the total loss dept of his insurance company. We are pretty close on value for the car I believe, but due to NM law I will end up with a salvage stamped title in the end. I don't plan to sell the car (been in the family for 50 years, drove my dad around in it before he passed, drove my wife to the hospital when my son was born, kids are really attached to it, etc)but my wife and I are wondering what kind of stigma a salvage title has on a car like an A?

My wife thinks about modern cars where salvage is bad, I think that since a properly restored A gets pulled down to the frame in order to do a good job a salvage title doesn't mean much on an 80 year old car.....

It is mainly a perception issue, my wife knows that the car will be fixed and damage will be erased, but the title will be always show the damage from the idiot who hit us.

In the end it doesn't matter, a stamp on the title doesn't change the smile as you drive, but it is nice to hear from others some times.

Thanks in advance.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

The only time that 'branded title' will ever be an issue is when you decide to transfer ownership. To some, it may be an issue. To others, having documented images showing the repairs and the length of time those repairs have been done will likely offset some of the fear. For example, if I were in the market for a Model-A that was restored back in 1970, and has 30,000 documented miles of touring, if I found out the title showed Salvage History, I don't think I would have a concern. On the other hand, if I needed to go to the bank to borrow the money, then maybe the bank's loan officer might have some issues?? For the immediate, I think the family legacy the vehicle has overides the branded title issue.

.

[Marcus]

Flexiheep - You are going to get a zillion different answers for this question, but here is one with a little different twist: When my neighbor's "A" was totaled a number of years ago, he bought the car back from the insurance company (salvage title), BUT, he also had a notorized letter from them explaining the circumstances (he actually wrote the letter, then had the insurance agent sign). He has had NO issues with license plates, nor any other questions concerning the automobile. In fact, when he decided to sell and advertised the car for sale, he explained to prospective buyers what had happened, detailed the repairs made AND produced the letter from the insurance company - it was sold with no further questions asked.

As you said - the sentimental value is priceless, but I would NOT hesitate to get that salvage title - and keep the smiles!!

[Fordors]

From what I read it looks that upon rebuilding a "specialized title " will be required by NM law. Check the following link- http://www.dmv.org/nm-new-mexico/salvaged-vehicles.php

[Mitch//pa]

document everything. keep the paper work about what actually happened with the drunk driver, take pics of the damage before and during restoration. i dont see it being a problem at all. i am currently restoring a 30 tudor that i bought back from the insurance with a salvage title from my shop fire caused by a ford cruise control deactivation switch. The car will actually be better than what it was before the incident and I am sure yours will be also

[Marco Tahtaras]

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That is a good link and makes it clear you better plan carefully. The main point in NM is:

" In this state, a vehicle deemed "nonrepairable" or salvage can only go one place―to the scrap heap. State lsw prohibits any type of rebuilding or repairing of a salvage vehicle for a return to the road."

In California you can repair a car with a salvage title but in many cases the vehicle is deemed to have no value so any future loss is at your own expense. There may be a way around this but I've never had a need to look into it.

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by Marco Tahtaras

That is a good link and makes it clear you better plan carefully. The main point in NM is:

" In this state, a vehicle deemed "nonrepairable" or salvage can only go one place―to the scrap heap. State lsw prohibits any type of rebuilding or repairing of a salvage vehicle for a return to the road."

In California you can repair a car with a salvage title but in many cases the vehicle is deemed to have no value so any future loss is at your own expense. There may be a way around this but I've never had a need to look into it.

Title it in another state and then bring it back

[mccsix]

I would make sure the insurance pays you for the "potential" loss of value when you agree to a settlement with them. You can fix fenders and frames but there's nothing YOU can do to erase the DMV record which might cause a sale problem later on.

[ronn]

I would change the motor and have a fresh car, or restamp the block....

Wouldn't want to deal with the stigma.

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by ronn

I would change the motor and have a fresh car, or restamp the block....

Wouldn't want to deal with the stigma.

That's always an option also

[flexiheep]

Well, I started to look at the forms the Ins compant fills out for a "total loss" in NM, not promissing......

From Form MVD 10005 Application for Non Repairable Certificate:
A non-repairable vehicle shall not be repaired, reconstructed or restored for operation on the roads or highways of this state.
An owner of a non-repairable vehicle shall sell or otherwise convey that vehicle only to a licensed wrecker of vehicles or a person
licensed by a jurisdiction outside of this state to process vehicles by dismantling, wrecking, shredding, crushing or selling motor
vehicle parts or scrap material or otherwise disposing of motor vehicles.

Same thing is on many other forms for a salvage title at the NM MVD......

Heck, I can't even sell the parts off the car once it is registered as a salvage here..... I have to sell it to a registered dismantiler....

Back to square one, need to figure out how to get paid without a "total loss/salvage"............

[Mike V. Florida]

Has anyone seen a car at auction that had a salvage title? Is any title information ever given?

So someone could spend a fortune for a vehicle with a salvage title.

If you like the car and the next buyer likes the car what difference does the make what the title says?

[old car guy]

Talk to the adjuster under writer that's handling your claim explain the problem far greater issues have been solved. With just some reasonable conversation. There are many circumstances that they deal with on a regular basis that you and I do not know about. Their client hit you. It's in the better interest. To work. This out with you. Even if you offer to accept a little less It can be resolved. Good luck

[PetesPonies]

on an 8 month old car . . it's an issue. On an 80 year old car . . non issue; IMO.

[30ccpickup]

Originally Posted by old car guy

Talk to the adjuster under writer that's handling your claim explain the problem far greater issues have been solved. With just some reasonable conversation. There are many circumstances that they deal with on a regular basis that you and I do not know about. Their client hit you. It's in the better interest. To work. This out with you. Even if you offer to accept a little less It can be resolved. Good luck

ditto

Paul

[denis4x4]

Originally Posted by ronn

I would change the motor and have a fresh car, or restamp the block....

Wouldn't want to deal with the stigma.

Restamping the block is illegal under federal law.

[Bob C]

Looks like you could do a "Reconstructed Vehicle" but what would that do to your
insurance or license fees. See link http://www.dmv.org/nm-new-mexico/cus...ucted-Vehicles

Bob

[Ross/Kzoo]

There was a good point mentioned about suffering a loss on a salvage title. The Insurance companies look for any excuse to pay less or nothing. A salvage title opens the door on this. Register it a state where you can a "duplicate title" or whatever they call it. In Michigan I went to the DMV with a bill of sale and motor number. Took about 45 minutes to check every state to if was registered there and since it wasn't I got a new title in the mail 3 weeks later and the title looks like every other title I have.

[Buz]

The insurance company owes you more $$ for loss of value due to the salvage title issue. The other issue is that some day even if it is far in the future the car will be sold and the salvage history will follow the car and banks will not loan money (at least in this state) on a car with salvage history.

[400A-64]

It is not too difficult to find an un used title whether from your state or from another state. Re-register it here or there.....

[JBill]

Don't sweat it. Salvaging is what we do!

[29ModelA]

Originally Posted by Ross/Kzoo

There was a good point mentioned about suffering a loss on a salvage title. The Insurance companies look for any excuse to pay less or nothing. A salvage title opens the door on this. Register it a state where you can a "duplicate title" or whatever they call it. In Michigan I went to the DMV with a bill of sale and motor number. Took about 45 minutes to check every state to if was registered there and since it wasn't I got a new title in the mail 3 weeks later and the title looks like every other title I have.

FYI Michigan has made it harder to do this. Now you have to have an appraisal and a Surety bond if the value is enough.

As far as the salvage issue you should be able to negotiate around that. We did with our 73 Buick Apollo when it got damaged. The Ins company totaled it because to paint the car was more than their book value on it. We bought it back for $500 fixed the crumpled fender and painted it. Now it has collector insurance rather then standard full coverage, and still maintains it's regular title.

Basically they paid out a total loss value, then deducted the $500 because we were keeping it. The title never changed hands.

[flexiheep]

Still looking into this, but interesting things I have found:

Talked with a MVD guy who has totaled a vehicle in NM, said he got the title stamped by the ins company, and just paid registration fees each year and drove in for 4 years, sold it 6 months ago with no problems. Talked to a couple other coworkers who have bought/owned/driven salvage vehicles in NM (none had been involved with the insurance/initial salvage designation).

Talked to my ins company, they did some digging and found the company won't let them write a policy (even just liability) on a salvage title in NM.... (will ask about reconstructed later)

Looked at the reconstructed vehicle thing, might be a good option, it appears I can use my "salvage title" frame as the base, and have reciepts for major purchases (in my case steering, brakes, fenders, wheels...) they will give a reconstructed title using my existing VIN and add a NM prefix secondary VIN. The form (MVD-10015)says the factory chassis if used will determine the year, make and primary VIN so it will still be a 1930 Ford.

There seems to be a divide between what the forms and instructions say and what reality seems to be, just don't want to get caught between them.

I have no interest in swapping titles/out of state sales/other means to an end.

[super flat]

I would come to a value with the insurance company payout to get it under where it would have to have a salvage title. Hope it all works out for you. Gary

[flexiheep]

Originally Posted by 29ModelA

As far as the salvage issue you should be able to negotiate around that. We did with our 73 Buick Apollo when it got damaged. The Ins company totaled it because to paint the car was more than their book value on it. We bought it back for $500 fixed the crumpled fender and painted it. Now it has collector insurance rather then standard full coverage, and still maintains it's regular title.

Basically they paid out a total loss value, then deducted the $500 because we were keeping it. The title never changed hands.

This would be the best and I plan to present that to the ins tomorrow as an option. I thankfully haven't had much experience with this type of thing, but it seems that NM has some interesting rules in this area.

BTW my 30 Coupe was given a salvage value of $383 for buy back....... Don't you wish you could find any model A for that!

[Marco Tahtaras]

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Originally Posted by flexiheep

This would be the best and I plan to present that to the ins tomorrow as an option. I thankfully haven't had much experience with this type of thing, but it seems that NM has some interesting rules in this area.

BTW my 30 Coupe was given a salvage value of $383 for buy back....... Don't you wish you could find any model A for that!

It sounds like you have it insured with your modern car insurer. I'd hope there was someone there that knows this stuff and work with you. From what I know with antique auto insurance they will have a maximum they will pay out (based on your coverage) and if their damage estimate can be reconciled with your damage estimate then they will pay that up to the maximum. You will get a check for that amount and what you do with it and the car is up to you.

[flexiheep]

Originally Posted by Marco Tahtaras

It sounds like you have it insured with your modern car insurer. I'd hope there was someone there that knows this stuff and work with you. From what I know with antique auto insurance they will have a maximum they will pay out (based on your coverage) and if their damage estimate can be reconciled with your damage estimate then they will pay that up to the maximum. You will get a check for that amount and what you do with it and the car is up to you.

I do have my car insured with my modern, can't beat the price, and I only have liability and uninsured motorist. I figure if I personally at am fault I will fix my car (may change one I fix it and it is in better shape). Problem here is I have to deal with the ins of the guy who hit me and is at fault.....

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by flexiheep

I do have my car insured with my modern, can't beat the price, and I only have liability and uninsured motorist. I figure if I personally at am fault I will fix my car (may change one I fix it and it is in better shape). Problem here is I have to deal with the ins of the guy who hit me and is at fault.....

In some ways you may be better off that way too. I have seen it where the "other guy's" insurance company determined you had an agreed value (let's say you personally had $7,500.00 comprehensive) and they would argue that you were willing to accept that $7.5k figure in lieu of a more realistic replacement price that the "other guy's" insurance company should have paid. Sadly, I think most hobbyists are under-insured when it comes to their coverage amounts.

[Chris Haynes]

Unless you turn over your title to the Ins Co they can't give you salvage papers. Keep your title in your hands.

[Charlie Stephens]

Play hard ball with the other guys insurance. To the best of my knowledge if they pay to have the car fixed it is not a salvage title issue. Make them understand that it will be very expensive to them if you end up with a salvage title.

Charlie Stephens

[theHIGHLANDER]

Originally Posted by Chris Haynes

Unless you turn over your title to the Ins Co they can't give you salvage papers. Keep your title in your hands.

This^^^^

Any time you keep the "salvage" the title remains in your name unencumbered. The ins co has no DMV or MVD authority. They're settling a debt. The only way it becomes salvage is you hand it over. Is NM different? I wouldn't think so. You may be hollerin before you're hurt. That's not meant as an insult. On the other hand, many collector level cars are never "totaled" by the insurance co.s that specialize in it. Here in MI I kept a totaled car. I got the settlement plus the car, sold the wrecked car, with a clear title, ended up with $1900 more than the totaled car value due the value of the parts. A "totally" legal opportunity...

[flexiheep]

Originally Posted by theHIGHLANDER

This^^^^

Any time you keep the "salvage" the title remains in your name unencumbered. The ins co has no DMV or MVD authority. They're settling a debt. The only way it becomes salvage is you hand it over. Is NM different? I wouldn't think so. You may be hollerin before you're hurt. That's not meant as an insult. On the other hand, many collector level cars are never "totaled" by the insurance co.s that specialize in it. Here in MI I kept a totaled car. I got the settlement plus the car, sold the wrecked car, with a clear title, ended up with $1900 more than the totaled car value due the value of the parts. A "totally" legal opportunity...

NM appears to be very strick with ins companies and totaling cars, the state requires a form to be filled out and a copy of the title with a salvage stamp submitted with the form. I am not sure what the state would do to the ins company if not submitted, but the one I am dealing with made it clear they follow the states laws and will not send me my check till they have stamped my title salvage. Basicly what happens is:

I mail my title to ins company
They stamp my title SALVAGE per state req
They copy title and send original back to me (car hasn't left my ownership) with payout check
They submit a copy of stamped title and MVD-11103 Salvage Vehicle or Vessel Notification to state.
State flags VIN as Salvage in their database
I get my original title back with Salvage stamped on it and the ins payment.

The more I dig into this it appears that a "Salvage" title is fine to own/drive/register the car with. There is another designation of "NonRepairable" that forces sale of car to a liscensed dismantler. That form is filled out by vehicle owner (me, not the ins), and appears to be completely optional. Not sure why you would ever fill the form out unless you were an ins company and the owner didn't retain car for salvage value. This designation would ensure that the car you totaled wouldn't make it back to the road......

In looking at the reconstructed designation I can use my salvage title and frame, then "repair" the vehicle showing purchase of major parts used and do a basic safety equipment inispection to recieve a title with my original year/make/model/vin and a secondary id number (state issued). This title wouldn't say salvage, but reconstructed instead.... Looking into what exactly that means.

I have some other things to look into to make sure I understand exactly how the heck this works in NM.....

[Charlie Stephens]

Just another thought. Will you have trouble getting insurance in the future with the salvage title? Since the other person was at fault it doesn't seem like their insurance company should be screwing around with you. Do you have a state insurance commissioner you could contact?

Charlie Stephens

[flexiheep]

Originally Posted by Charlie Stephens

Just another thought. Will you have trouble getting insurance in the future with the salvage title? Since the other person was at fault it doesn't seem like their insurance company should be screwing around with you. Do you have a state insurance commissioner you could contact?

Charlie Stephens

That is the $64,000 question.....

Currently my Insurance company can't insure a vehicle in my state with a salvage title..... I am looking into what a reconstructed designation means.

I have co workers who do have insurance on salvaged vehicles in NM, so it appears someone is writing policies.

[flexiheep]

Well, I found the official definition of "non repairable" from the NM motor vehicle code section 66-1-4.12:


A. "nonrepairable vehicle" means a vehicle of a type otherwise subject to registration that:
(1) has no resale value except as a source of parts or scrap metal or that the owner irreversibly designates as a source of parts or scrap metal or for destruction;
(2) has been substantially stripped as a result of theft or is missing all of the bolts on sheet metal body panels, all of the doors and hatches, substantially all of the interior components and substantially all of the grill and light assemblies and has little or no resale value other than its worth as a source of a vehicle identification number that could be used illegally; or
(3) is a substantially burned vehicle that has burned to the extent that there are no more usable or repairable body or interior components, tires and wheels or drive train components or that the owner irreversibly designates for destruction or as having little or no resale value other than its worth as a source of scrap metal or as a source of a vehicle identification number that could be used illegally; B. "nonrepairable vehicle certificate" means a vehicle ownership document conspicuously labeled "NONREPAIRABLE" issued to the owner of the nonrepairable vehicle;

Good news is that my car doesn't come close to this, so no need to worry about non repairable.

From section 66-1-4.16:

C. "salvage vehicle" means a vehicle:
(1) other than a nonrepairable vehicle, of a type subject to registration that has been wrecked, destroyed or damaged excluding, pursuant to rules issued by the department, hail damage, to the extent that the owner, leasing company, financial institution or the insurance company that insured or is responsible for repair of the vehicle considers it uneconomical to repair the vehicle and that is subsequently not repaired by or for the person who owned the vehicle at the time of the event resulting in damage; or (2) that was determined to be uneconomical to repair and for which a total loss payment is made by an insurer, whether or not the vehicle is subsequently repaired, if, prior to or upon making payment to the claimant, the insurer obtained the agreement of the claimant to the amount of the total loss settlement and informed the claimant that, pursuant to rules of the department, the title must be branded and submitted to the department for issuance of a salvage certificate of title for the vehicle;
_________
Basicly NM says that if a total loss is made on a car it must be designated Salvage.

[29ModelA]

Personally I think I would get a lawyer to deal with the other agency, or at least consult one. In MI my agency pays out and goes after the other guys insurance. It is probably the only benefit to it being a 'no fault' state.

if there is one thing I have learned they will do what they can to screw you. I know I would not want that salvage stamp on my title.

[Jerry Parr WI]

Originally Posted by 29ModelA

Personally I think I would get a lawyer to deal with the other agency, or at least consult one. In MI my agency pays out and goes after the other guys insurance. It is probably the only benefit to it being a 'no fault' state.

if there is one thing I have learned they will do what they can to screw you. I know I would not want that salvage stamp on my title.

I very much agree with the contact a lawyer statement. I think if you accept this arrangement you will have a major problem in the future. Take the position that the car can be repaired for less than it's totaled value. There must be some financial advantage to them to total the car rather than repair it. What is the advantage to them? Why do they prefer to total it? You need legal advice!

[theHIGHLANDER]

Repair may mean a total restoration. Clearly at today's nat'l average of restoration rates, it's easy to exceed the nat'l average value of select cars. I'm thinking the issue is the value of it when it was damaged, once repaired it should clearly be worth more because of how much restoration/repair was done. You may also be simply the victim of a power monger, the type that thinks he can run rough-shod over you and get something "he" wants. It's happened before.

I had a guy "abandon" a 56 Chevy HT on my property. It was a job/restoration/hotrod project I was to be paid to do. I never got paid for what did get done, nor any advance to make the next move in parts/labor. A local sheriff told me to roll the car to the street so they could pick it up and "dispose of it" for me. YEAH, RIGHT! I exercised my rights as an "Artisan" and was able to get a legal title and sell it. None of us like to consider a person's avarice, their dark side, their plan to decieve for personal gain, and especially in our gig (any old cars) there's an element that uses our nostalgia and passions against us. Just sayin...

[flexiheep]

Originally Posted by Jerry Parr WI

I very much agree with the contact a lawyer statement. I think if you accept this arrangement you will have a major problem in the future. Take the position that the car can be repaired for less than it's totaled value. There must be some financial advantage to them to total the car rather than repair it. What is the advantage to them? Why do they prefer to total it? You need legal advice!

We started looking at repair, their guy who said he knew nothing about old cars came up with 6500 to repair, but ignored the brake hardware damage, a lot of the steering system and the fact that the body is racked to the side (car came to rest on drivers side) I found an older gentleman who actually repairs old cars and his drop it off and pick up a ready car is 12K. If I accept a lower fix it offer I will have to do much of the repair myself to fix a car someone else screwed up to get it back to it's previous state. It's state was an unrestored driver that I could take to work at 55 with a straight rust free body and fenders that showed 80 years of use..... The expensive part is getting the body straight and back to previous state, you could close both doors smoothly with a single finger. Mechanically there is damage to the frame, steering brakes and a cracked bell housing along with 3 of 4 fenders....

They want to total the car because of basic math, the ins company values the car at 10K (I think this is reasonable) and repair est came in at 12K.

[Kurt in NJ]

I have seen some ins companys "total" a vehicle with litttle damage ----it's about profit, they know they can make more that way, give the owner a low "book" valu, then resell the salvage at a profit---and they want to grab the car that day before the owner can think about it, it's usually a very nice low mileage car that a dealer would pay above bookk for(other than for the minor damage), other companys will look for a way to have the owner keep the car and sometimes work with the repair shop to prevent it being totaled.

If you can agree on a # for repairing the car and keep the paperwork from having the title changed to salvage (It's a pain to jump all the hoops and lines, and going from agency to agency looking for a person to inspect all the paperwork, you may need to trailer the car to several inspection agencys etc,)---it's not about the value of the car with salvage titile for a model A or other old car, it's about what the brand "salvage" may mean to the bureaucrats in the future.

[Jerry Parr WI]

Originally Posted by flexiheep

We started looking at repair, their guy who said he knew nothing about old cars came up with 6500 to repair, but ignored the brake hardware damage, a lot of the steering system and the fact that the body is racked to the side (car came to rest on drivers side) I found an older gentleman who actually repairs old cars and his drop it off and pick up a ready car is 12K. If I accept a lower fix it offer I will have to do much of the repair myself to fix a car someone else screwed up to get it back to it's previous state. It's state was an unrestored driver that I could take to work at 55 with a straight rust free body and fenders that showed 80 years of use..... The expensive part is getting the body straight and back to previous state, you could close both doors smoothly with a single finger. Mechanically there is damage to the frame, steering brakes and a cracked bell housing along with 3 of 4 fenders....

They want to total the car because of basic math, the ins company values the car at 10K (I think this is reasonable) and repair est came in at 12K.

Accepting their estimate of the car's value I don't have a big problem with. The issue is why must the title be stamped? This is where legal advice can tell you why they want that. Why is a simple release from you that you accept that amount for the damage not acceptable? There is some legal advantage to them here. If you accept that situation you will spend much more in the future trying to get a title than you will for a quick visit to the lawyer.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by flexiheep

That is the $64,000 question.....

Currently my Insurance company can't insure a vehicle in my state with a salvage title..... I am looking into what a reconstructed designation means.

I have co workers who do have insurance on salvaged vehicles in NM, so it appears someone is writing policies.

Insured as a modern car maybe, but as a collector car with a collector car insurance company?

[Rowdy]

Definitions of titles vary state to state. Even though my delivery has parts from many cars and the origianal title and numbers are long gone. I ended up with a "Bonded Title" in 2 more years I can send in the paperwork and will have what amounts to an "Origianl Title" I had a long talk with a lawyer about what i should persue. In actuality by definition I should have applied for an "Assembled Vehicle Title", but it was decided that the "Bonded Title" was fine as my car fit the elements of the Spirit of the Law although not the written definition. No problems with the proccess at this point. Rod

[Jerry Parr WI]

Went searching the web and think I found the answer. State laws require vehicles to be totaled if the repair exceeds 75% of the value (80% in FL). Seems you have little choice unless you accept $7500. for your loss. You might get that up by finding a higher appraisal and a lower repair estimate. I'm sure the insurance company won't do the leg work but if you could get an appraisal for $12. and an estimate for $9. you could get under the limit. I doubt they would fight the savings.

[flexiheep]

Originally Posted by Jerry Parr WI

Went searching the web and think I found the answer. State laws require vehicles to be totaled if the repair exceeds 75% of the value (80% in FL). Seems you have little choice unless you accept $7500. for your loss. You might get that up by finding a higher appraisal and a lower repair estimate. I'm sure the insurance company won't do the leg work but if you could get an appraisal for $12. and an estimate for $9. you could get under the limit. I doubt they would fight the savings.

That is the answer, it isn't the insurance company who wants to mark the title salvage, it is state law in NM that any vehicle that the insurance company makes a total loss payment on must be marked salvage. This is an NM insurance commission thing, if they don't do it they are in violation. The company doesn't care, they are prepared to pay out the policy max (sadly just enough to cover the value of the car as he had state min) since the guy was charged with reckless driving and dwi.

Per NM 66-1-4.16
C. "salvage vehicle" means a vehicle:
(1) other than a nonrepairable vehicle, of a type subject to registration that has been wrecked, destroyed or damaged excluding, pursuant to rules issued by the department, hail damage, to the extent that the owner, leasing company, financial institution or the insurance company that insured or is responsible for repair of the vehicle considers it uneconomical to repair the vehicle and that is subsequently not repaired by or for the person who owned the vehicle at the time of the event resulting in damage; or
(2) that was determined to be uneconomical to repair and for which a total loss payment is made by an insurer, whether or not the vehicle is subsequently repaired, if, prior to or upon making payment to the claimant, the insurer obtained the agreement of the claimant to the amount of the total loss settlement and informed the claimant that, pursuant to rules of the department, the title must be branded and submitted to the department for issuance of a salvage certificate of title for the vehicle;


Currently leaning to total loss, get the salvage title, rebuild car and submit forms MVD-10053 and MVD-10015 to get a reconstructed title and retain the original year/make/model/VIN while erasing the salvage from the title. Only downside I can see is that I will also have a state issued VIN applied as a second reference. Since this will never be a fine points show car in my ownership, it will just become part of the cars history.

[Jerry Parr WI]

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You might also consider a parts car with parts you need that has a clean title. After the restoration who knows which car you really have.

[Cool Hand Lurker]

Originally Posted by denis4x4

Restamping the block is illegal under federal law.

denis4x4, I would like to look up that law. Can you give me a federal statute number?
Thanks

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Cool Hand Lurker

denis4x4, I would like to look up that law. Can you give me a federal statute number?
Thanks

Your right we have read often from a friend that is a peace officer, or "was told by the DMV". I also would like to be able to say here is the statute.

[denis4x4]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

Your right we have read often from a friend that is a peace officer, or "was told by the DMV". I also would like to be able to say here is the statute.

Ask and ye shall receive:

http://www.justice.gov/usao/mow/news2012/riley.sen.html

I purchased all of the running gear for a 1931 Cabriolet and the California seller retained the original pink slip as I was going to register the finished car in Colorado. He stamped a new number on the frame. Everything was fine until I went to pick up the engine and saw that he'd ground off the number. I sent a letter to the criminal division of the California DMV and I heard later on that he paid some heavy fines and that he had to re-register the hot rod.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by denis4x4

Ask and ye shall receive:

http://www.justice.gov/usao/mow/news2012/riley.sen.html

I purchased all of the running gear for a 1931 Cabriolet and the California seller retained the original pink slip as I was going to register the finished car in Colorado. He stamped a new number on the frame. Everything was fine until I went to pick up the engine and saw that he'd ground off the number. I sent a letter to the criminal division of the California DMV and I heard later on that he paid some heavy fines and that he had to re-register the hot rod.

In your case and in the case cited, the sellers attempted to cheat the government out of money by creating an entire car from scratch (Kit Car) and pass it off as the real deal.

If we as owners of the vehicles only want to get the vehicle on the road in the same condition as we originally had it and there is no financial difference to the state, what is the crime?

Is it the simple act of changing a number on a part or doing so to defraud the Government?

Do we have an example of a person that simply restamped an orginial engine to place it in an original car?

[Vetcol]

After all the reading here, I would try to take less so it's not totaled. THEN I WOULD TRY TO GET THE LAW CHANGED.

[ronn]

It is the act of two people, buyer and seller both wanting the title when in fact the body was divided from the chassis. (hot rod)
Doesn't sound like it was an amicable deal to me....

[Aok]

Any time there is any non standard attachment to a title there will always be some who will not purchase so there is defiantly a loss of value to the vehicle. AS for me I would not consider purchasing a vehicle with a salvage title.

[29ModelA]

Originally Posted by denis4x4

Ask and ye shall receive:

http://www.justice.gov/usao/mow/news2012/riley.sen.html

I purchased all of the running gear for a 1931 Cabriolet and the California seller retained the original pink slip as I was going to register the finished car in Colorado. He stamped a new number on the frame. Everything was fine until I went to pick up the engine and saw that he'd ground off the number. I sent a letter to the criminal division of the California DMV and I heard later on that he paid some heavy fines and that he had to re-register the hot rod.

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

In your case and in the case cited, the sellers attempted to cheat the government out of money by creating an entire car from scratch (Kit Car) and pass it off as the real deal.

If we as owners of the vehicles only want to get the vehicle on the road in the same condition as we originally had it and there is no financial difference to the state, what is the crime?

Is it the simple act of changing a number on a part or doing so to defraud the Government?

Do we have an example of a person that simply restamped an orginial engine to place it in an original car?

Exactly as I see it. Grinding a frame number IMO is like grinding a VIN #

Grinding engine numbers was actually a common practice back in the day. My Engine block does not match my frame. It was a catalog bought engine I believe. The number on it is not a Ford number and starts with an R. California had my car titled to this generic number.

When I titled the car in MI I titled it to the frame number since the engine is so easily (and likely will be) changed.

[flexiheep]

As an update I finally settled the property damage portion of the insurance recently. In the end they valued the car above the $10K policy limit he was carrying, so since they were going to have to pay out the policy max I finally convinced them to treat it as a repair not a total loss. It sadly took 3 weeks and getting rather nasty with them over the fact that I wasn't willing to accept a salvage title when they couldn't pay me the full value of the car as they had determined it ($10K limit vs. $14.5K determined value).

Still wish that the guy had carried more than the state min insurance, but at least I got enough to fix the car without a salvage title. I also found a hot rod guy who had a chassis/fenders/hood/grill/etc for a good price. Now I just need to start rebuilding parts and get the car rebuild going.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Well while $10k won't go too far, I am glad for your outcome both in health and finances as both could have been much worse then, ...and now!!

[MikeK]

Originally Posted by flexiheep

As an update I finally settled the property damage portion of the insurance recently. In the end they valued the car above the $10K policy limit he was carrying, . . .
Still wish that the guy had carried more than the state min insurance, but at least I got enough to fix the car without a salvage title. . .

The fact that he had the state 10K minimum doesn't get him off the hook for the rest of it! Now you sue him for the balance. Since HIS insurance shows a value above their liability, take that paperwork and go after him. They have effectively put their own client on the hook for the difference. That's why they were pushing for you to sign-off on a salvage deal.

[Mitch//pa]

wow on the flip. thank goodness no one was hurt
you might want to consider an agreed value policy so if needed your own company can make you whole again for circunstances like this

[flexiheep]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Well while $10k won't go too far, I am glad for your outcome both in health and finances as both could have been much worse then, ...and now!!

I have found this state (NM) to be kind of backwards with respect to some things, I mean, what can you hit in an accident for 10K....... I have made made several people rethink their coverage and find out that the difference between the min and 4-5X the coverage was small, one person found it to be $7 a year......

We were lucky, we were turning left when the guy decided to pass in a no passing zone doing 65 in a 40 and Tboned us right about the bell housing area on his Harley Roadking. Spun us 180 and then the car slowly turned over (BTW my wife watched it happen as she was behind us). I ended up with road rash on my arm from the open window, and my son ended up with a few stitches under his ear, my daughter came out unscathed except it was her birthday this happened on. The guy who hit me and his wife didn't fare as well, they survived, but won't be forgetting the choices they made for a while since they were wearing no protective gear.........

While $10K isn't a lot to get the car repaired, it should get it back to where it was, and hopefully better as I will be rebuilding the worn out parts as I go. Finding the running chassis and fenders got me most of the parts I am going to need.

Now on to the medical part of this stupid thing.