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04-06-2013, 02:52 AM | #1 |
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Newbie with a barn find
Last year the wife and I went to a relatives ranch in Northern California. At the time we were getting a tour through the barns fairly fast and I didn't get a good look, but, in one of the barns was a truck with wood spoked wheels! I'm assuming it's a Model T but I guess I'll determine that when we go back up there. It's possible I'll be going tomorrow, if we do, I'll take plenty of photos. There is also a possibility I may get the opportunity to take it home at some point, so I'm really hoping it's a T!
What should I look for? I know to get the serial off the engine and off the frame if I can see it... What's the easiest way to see if the engine is stuck or not? Trying to move the crank? Anything else I should do/lookout for while I'm there? Thanks - Scott |
04-06-2013, 08:45 AM | #2 |
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Re: Newbie with a barn find
As a barn find, and if the price is "right", get it outa there and deal with the net results when you get it home. A single 1/4 turn on the hand crank will tell if its frozen or not. Thats even a moot point at this stage. The biggest part about moving it right now is that theres air in the tires (unless they are rotted into the dirt in the barn) and releasing the parking brake. Thats the long handle on the left of the driver by the door. It does a few things; all the way back is engine neutral and parking brakes on, half way forward is neutral and brakes off, all the way forward is transmission in high gear and brakes off. This may seem confusing if youve never driven a T before, but its really quite simple.
If for some reason it was parked decades ago with the brakes "on", they may be lightly stuck to the drums. Theyll break lose really easy. This will also ease a hand crank test to see if the motor is frozen. If the brake lever was left all the way forward, the brakes will be free, but the 21 internal clutch plates may be stuck together which may make it feel like its froze up. Thats really two seperate simple problems to overcome. If you need to air up the tires, try a little air at a time. The rubber will be tired and hard and when a tire blows out with your face right in front of it, you can get hurt. Get your block numbers and a MILLION pics with a digital camera ( not a freakin' cell phone camera either!!!!) and post them here for some more in depth analysis. ws
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04-06-2013, 08:59 AM | #3 |
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Re: Newbie with a barn find
Welcome aboard Scott. I hope it turns out to be a T. T's are a lot of fun. And
this is a great site if you own one. |
04-06-2013, 11:41 AM | #4 |
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Re: Newbie with a barn find
Thanks guys/Bill?
It's looking like we are going today to look at it! Probably in the afternoon. Thanks for the info, that is much needed. If I remember right it was parked in the barn on a pile of wood planks, so that should be good. We'll bring a couple digital cameras. I'll post pictures hopefully this evening. I'm hoping it's an early factory conversion or a TT! Scott |
04-06-2013, 12:55 PM | #5 |
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Re: Newbie with a barn find
As a "newbie" looking to see if its a T or a TT, the rear end is the biggest giveaway. A TT will have BIGGER 5 or 6 lug rims and a worm drive differential with the worm gear on top. A T has a centered bevel gear drive. The TT also has massive springs on the back along with a heavy looking crossmemember. Generally, itll also have 2 foot long running boards with a battery carrier below the drivers door.
Dont forget to empty your card and charge the battery on that camera! ws (Bill)!
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04-06-2013, 01:20 PM | #6 |
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Re: Newbie with a barn find
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04-06-2013, 10:50 PM | #7 |
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Re: Newbie with a barn find
Alright, it ended up being a little different than what I remembered, including being a little rougher than I thought. But the engine serial was 690XXXX so the motor is from 1922? At any rate it looks to be a Roadster pickup!
http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/a...chalous/T1.jpg Does it look like a good project car? The rust is bad, and if you look closely at the motor, it looks like water and mice have gotten inside of it! Scott |
04-07-2013, 01:23 AM | #8 |
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Re: Newbie with a barn find
Cannot see the wheels but what i can see of it looks pretty good. Most barn finds look like that.
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04-07-2013, 09:17 AM | #9 |
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Re: Newbie with a barn find
Still only see the one pic. Looks pretty substantial nevertheless. Get it on a trailer and head for the nearest car wash with a bucket o' soap and a brush! Handle that radiator with care. Maybe its junk, maybe not, but at least its something to start with! Is it a freebie? Thats even better yet! I use tinypic http://tinypic.com/ makes it really easy to load good sized pics. You may hafta sign in but its free! ws
This is what I started with... And ended up with this so far... Then momma says "Atta boy, COME HERE!!!"
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04-07-2013, 11:54 AM | #10 |
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Re: Newbie with a barn find
There we go, I'm learning how to do this picture posting stuff. My concerns are the motor and the rust on the body. What do you all think? It seems fairly complete, I couldn't find the hood. But it could be hiding somewhere. Does it look like a 1922?
Not sure if I can get it or not. If I can get it, it'll be free. But if they want to keep it. They will, money doesn't matter to them. |
04-07-2013, 12:07 PM | #11 |
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Re: Newbie with a barn find
I am pretty sure it is a 23 roadster. The top & windshield style started in 23 & the front fender style ended in 23.
Looks like a good car. You should look around the farm for the "trunk". It was easily removed & may be hanging in the rafters somewhere. They often survived because people knew what they were & for that reason they often show up at swap meets as well. What you have here is the textbook Barn Find! What is the TT truck ahead of it?
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04-07-2013, 12:37 PM | #12 |
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Re: Newbie with a barn find
Not sure what this is. Maybe yall can tell?
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04-07-2013, 12:39 PM | #13 |
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Re: Newbie with a barn find
My guess is a Cab Truck turned into a trailer?
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04-07-2013, 12:42 PM | #14 |
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Re: Newbie with a barn find
This 1930's truck was sitting next to the roadster.
Last edited by Scotch; 04-08-2013 at 12:07 AM. |
04-07-2013, 01:55 PM | #15 |
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Re: Newbie with a barn find
The chassis with the wood bed mounted on it looks to be a car chassis a couple of years older than the roadster in the first pictures. Maybe 1919 or so. It has the earlier spring clamp arrangement. The roadster looks like the 1923 to 1925 ones.
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04-07-2013, 03:18 PM | #16 |
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Re: Newbie with a barn find
I get about a dozen blank spaces where the pictures should be. Maybe 2-3 showed up... ws
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04-07-2013, 08:06 PM | #17 |
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Re: Newbie with a barn find
Looks like you moved photo's on your hosting site after you linked to them here
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04-07-2013, 11:39 PM | #18 |
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Re: Newbie with a barn find
The T-chassis wagon is 1917-1919. It has the 1913-1920 pinion housing and the non-tapered springs introduced in 1917. It appears to have some kind of aftermarket accessory shocks in front.
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04-08-2013, 12:16 AM | #19 |
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Re: Newbie with a barn find
Sorry guys, they were all there till I moved them to a new album. Still learning... This should work.
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04-08-2013, 12:22 AM | #20 |
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Re: Newbie with a barn find
So again my main concern is rust on the body and engine, and water/mice living in the motor...?
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04-08-2013, 01:34 AM | #21 | |
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Re: Newbie with a barn find
Quote:
That engine looks like the kind i would pull apart and clean, repair what is clearly worn beyond usable limits and reassemble, then run it to see how well it goes. And if you have not heard about the thrust washers in the rear axle breaking down over time you will have just learned of it right now, it might be a good idea to replace them if you want to drive the car on the road. Looks like a good start.
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04-08-2013, 05:51 AM | #22 |
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Re: Newbie with a barn find
Since its pretty early here, Im gonna give it to you in synopsis form. You seem enthused about this guy, and this is a good thing. I would try and save it from further decomposition, just like the archaeologists do when a mummy's tomb is first opened up. Carefully remove all the junk and debris piled on top being as gentle as you can, and clear a pathway for it to the door. It looks like the wheels settled into the dirt so I would try and removed some of the mud. The wood parts are probably gonners, but the stuff is there for identification nevertheless.
If ts free, theres little to lose. If you get totally overwhelmed or discouraged, sell it or part it out. Looking at it as it sits, Id go for $500, yet the top bows alone are worth that in parts. Its evident that someone needed parts a long time ago judging from the timer roller condition, with mice inside the water jackets and no oil filler plug, they will have 50 generations of offspring living in the oil pan. Drag it outside but pull it by the frame and NOT the front axle. Dont be surprised if the wheels disintegrate in the process. Get it to the nearest coin op car wash and rinse it down free of as much dirt as possible. After its dry, get a gallon or two of PB Blaster and some spray bottles, and spend the next week SATURATING the entire car over and over, every nook and cranny, seiously, just as though it soaked in a swimming pool with the stuff! I would do that part parked on top of a blue tarp to save the driveway, garage floor, flowers and grass, and your old ladies temper LOL...Wear the cruddiest clothes you own, and NOW start to assess the project. It has barely maintained the "rusty and full of patina" barn find status, and depending on you, can be brought back "as is" which is cool, or do a total full blown restoration. The latter will need an open check book, lotsa love and dedication, and even more, education, if youve never worked on a T before. As Jack mentioned earlier, SCRUTINIZE the barn for extra parts, including that farm trailer frame, carbs and coils in the rafters, and even that old black powder double barrel 12 gage behind a beam. Now you see, some of us would be enthused about a find like this and some would get discouraged and call the junk man. DO NOT DO THE LATTER! Even if it is too far gone to restore, theres a ton of parts that guys can benefit from. Keep the faith and good luck. Keep the pics coming too! Pics are a good thing... ws
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04-08-2013, 07:05 AM | #23 |
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Re: Newbie with a barn find
Lordy! It looks like it would have been better off outside than "indoors". Many consider what youve found restorable. Me? I'd walk. Even for free. Especially with no title or paperwork. There is not one single item there that doesn't need major repair or total replacement. A lot of people have started with less but if re-sale is way way in the back of your mind, forget it. Even mildly restored you'll be into it for more than it's worth. Enjoy if you must just be prepped for years & years of work before a drive.
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04-08-2013, 07:25 AM | #24 |
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Re: Newbie with a barn find
I just bought a barn find in virginia last summer on ebay for $4,000. It was in much better shape than yours. If you plan on restoring the car and dont have all the parts look on craigslist and you may find someone nearby that is selling a bunch of parts nd maybe a engine. My car was well worn and had water in engine so entire drivetrain needed rebuilding. I probably have another 4 or 5 thousand into it and I restored it myself. You can buy restored model t cars for between 8 and 10 thousand. I restored it for the knowlerdge but wished I had taken a better look at car before I bought it. Or at least listened to the people in the know so I was better informed. Dont get me wrong I am glad I have the car but it was an expensive endeavor.
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04-08-2013, 07:30 AM | #25 |
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Re: Newbie with a barn find
The pickup bed parts are in photo #3.(tail gate) You have the steel.The rest must be close by. If you take this on. Let me me know. I'll send you the
blue prints for the pickup bed. |
04-08-2013, 09:35 AM | #26 |
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Re: Newbie with a barn find
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04-08-2013, 09:48 AM | #27 |
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Re: Newbie with a barn find
I think what some are seeing here is the degree of surface rust that usually is caused by damp storage. It acts from both sides of the steel & can result in everything being too thin to work with. The same dampness often ruins the wood in the body as well. This can be determined only by an up close inspection. Fenders & mechanical parts are readily available & usually reasonable. At a modest price this is certainly worth the risk & has some good parts if all else fails.
The sleeper in this discussion is the much more rare & desirable 1936 Terraplane pickup. This would be costly to restore but might be a survivor prospect. Hudson made pickups for many years that used a car body with a back in it to make the cab so parts are not impossible to find. They are a very attractive & driveable vehicle. There is room in my barn for that one.
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04-08-2013, 10:12 AM | #28 |
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Re: Newbie with a barn find
Drag it outside but pull it by the frame and NOT the front axle. Dont be surprised if the wheels disintegrate in the process.
SOUNDS LIKE EXPERIENCE SPEAKING HERE ???? A few years back i bought a Model T sitting in a field in northern Indiana on ebay for like $65 bucks. Cant go wrong here can i , part of the body was there and the pictures showed all four wheels and a engine. I took the wife with me and my trailer with a winch to pick it up sight unseen. When i got there the lady that owned the car couldnt even find the car ! The horse weeds around the barn had covered up everything and the pics i seen must have been taken years ago. After some looking thru the weeds i found the car sitting next to a crosley and both had just rusted into the ground. I backed the trailer into the weeds and added some chain to the winch cable and hooked up maybe 50 feet from the trailer to the front axle. Back to the trailer to run the winch and started the pull, after some serious grunting the carcas started coming at me thru the 8 ft tall weeds. When it got to sight at the trailer all i had was the front axle, two busted wheels and one side of the frame horn. Not to be outdone i rehooked until i got this mess on the trailer in 5-6 pieces. As we drove home with this pile of scrap my wife calmly said : It wasnt what you expected was it?? There was not one usuable part on the trailer the engine was missing the head, the trans was missing the top cover and even the rear axle was bent, broken and full of water. I guess you live and learn ????? Even today i have trouble smiling when i think of this one...... |
04-08-2013, 10:20 AM | #29 |
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Re: Newbie with a barn find
Even today i have trouble smiling when i think of this one......
I dunno... I smiled! In 1968 dad and I made the 800 mile+ trip from Chicago to Tulsa to pick up a T roadster. Found it in Hemmings, and the guy mailed me a polaroid pic. Great... We get there and that thing mustve sat in a river bottom for 50 years! A bunch of guys literally lifted the whole thing into the bed of a dodge pick up truck with ANOTHER roadster body lashed down on top of that and we dragged them home. THAT, was my own first model T. I still smile about that one... BTW, the dodge had a non synchro first gear with half the teeth missing; and the hills in Kansas City were a bitch!!! ws
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04-08-2013, 10:35 AM | #30 |
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Re: Newbie with a barn find
What we do for a "good deal". Some times we convince ourselves that we just found a great deal andwe better scoop it up before someone else does. But our wives, God bless them, just hope we dont get into too much trouble. I hope this find works out for you and you are getting it for free so you are a leg up on me. This forum has been a great help for me. Someone once told me that one more good deal would probably put him out of business. Good luck, I havent driven mine but plan on having a blast with it soon.
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04-08-2013, 12:11 PM | #31 |
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Re: Newbie with a barn find
Better you than me been there done that & wont do it again
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04-09-2013, 08:06 AM | #32 |
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Re: Newbie with a barn find
Whoa guys!! That's a 1936 Hudson pickup truck you've got there. We're talking some serious money for a restored example. Notice the suicide doors on this truck. In 37, Hudson went to conventional opening doors, so this is a 36 for sure. Get the title for this little art deco jem in the rough and get it outa there quick. I't's worth 2 or 3 grand just sitting there the way it is, depending on what's missing. Hope you can find the left headlight. For my money, these mid 30's Hudson pickups were the high point of truck styling ever, with long swoopy fenders and a cab that looks raked and chopped, but they came that way from the factory. Could you take some more photos of the Hudson? Side, rear, interior if possible. Thanks
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04-14-2013, 12:40 AM | #33 |
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Re: Newbie with a barn find
Ok, I talked to the rightful owner today and I expressed my interest in it. He and his grandfather always talked about fixing it up one day but his grandfather passed away. He also said he may still be interested in fixing it up. But told me a "couple times" to just ask him every once in a while and said that if he doesn't end up doing it he'd let me have at it!
I was actually debating over the last week whether or not I even wanted to take on the project. Mostly because it seemed like some things were taken off of it. But, he told me that the pickup was parked outside in the early 1960's then brought into the barn in the 1980's. And that when it was first parked it was still running! He also said all the parts should be there, like the hood, and that he had the back hatch stored somewhere too! So it may be awhile but there's a good chance I may get it later on. And the Hudson, thanks Jack!, is staying where it is for now, it's not really his at the moment. He thought it was a nash... Thanks Bill and to all for the thoughts and info, I really appreciate it! Hopefully I can talk him into letting me have at it before it goes through another winter. Oh, and he said he believed it to be a 1923. Scott |
04-14-2013, 09:37 AM | #34 |
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Re: Newbie with a barn find
Well this gives you time to look around and see what is out there and if this is exactly what you want. Between ebay and swap meets there are plenty of opportunities. Order a parts book from Macs and thumb through it to see what parts cost and see what your budget will allow. Sometimes when things happen fast one doesnt get the chance to check out other options. Good luck with your dream. Put a picture of a model T on the refrigerator and it will happen.
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04-21-2013, 10:50 AM | #35 |
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Re: Newbie with a barn find
Thanks for the postings Scotch. That roadster looks like it was in the barn a very long time. Until you do some clean up, it is hard to tell what you got. Some parts seem to have some serious rust and pitting. Its a start.
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04-23-2013, 08:11 AM | #36 |
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Re: Newbie with a barn find
Several posters here have suggested to you from experience that this particular free barn find will cost you way more to get it running again than it will ever be worth.
Count me as one of those voices as well, been there, done that. I am just finishing a 1919 Touring that cost me $3000,(and was in WAY WAAAAY better shape than this relic of yours), did all the work over about 18 months, and it turned out pretty good. I consider the costs above what it is worth as tuition at the University of Model T Mechanics. I essentially put a parts car back on the road, with the help of quite a few folks here at Ford Barn forum. I could see if this completely deteriorated husk was your grandfather's car, or great grandfather's car, sure, then sentimental value would be there and keeping it in the family would be the right thing to do. But this is just someone else's wreck that has been 'totaled' (worth less than the cost to repair) at some point during the FDR administration. And now it will probably cost you more to remove it from where it lies than what you can reasonably expect to get from parts. From what I can see, there are very likely no parts that don't need complete and expensive restoration. Look around for other more compatible restoration candidates, there are hundreds if not thousands of them out there that far better condition than this one. Take Charlie B's advice (and mine): walk away. You will be glad you did. |
04-23-2013, 09:15 AM | #37 |
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Re: Newbie with a barn find
I agree that this car would be a money pit. Me I would only want the roadster. And I would have to get it cheap. Three or four hundred is all I would pay for it. With cars I straddle both sides of the fence. This would be perfect for a t-bucket.i got one over the weekend. And that's what it might be some day.
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04-24-2013, 01:28 AM | #38 |
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Re: Newbie with a barn find
You guys are too old!
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