The Ford Barn

OLD AS I · 02-07-2016, 07:19 AM

Some years ago I got a complete '46 (basket case) 59 engine. Just striped it down to have it checked. Have a high pressure hot water washer so I thought Id wash it down and blow out the water jackets. I couldn't believe the stuff that came out, all kinds of maple tree seeds, the "helicopters" we called them as kids, dirt, sand, plastic strips. Are these water passages big enough to allow mice to nest inside ? Will be telling shop to extra flush it if it checks out ok. Clyds appear sleeved, are all these blocks sleeved from factory ?

Should I stay away from rebuilding a sleeved engine, ? are sleeves readily available ? can a sleeved engine be bored if needed ? pros and cons about a sleeved block ?

Walt Dupont--Me. · 02-07-2016, 08:03 AM

NO, the 59 engine did not come from the factory sleeved. Some one has sleeved the block. If I was you I'd try to find a shop that has a baking oven to bake the block and run it through a short peen machine. Walt

Bored&Stroked · 02-07-2016, 09:49 AM

Hmmmm . . . I have seen 59 engines (where just the 59 was on the back) have the thin tin-can sleeves - and the smaller 221 bores as a result. Have never built one myself, but I've heard you can knock the sleeves out of then, do a slight bore/hone and be somewhere north of 3 3/16 (239 cubes).

flatheadmurre · 02-07-2016, 11:06 AM

The idee of the tin can sleeves was to be able to rebuild without boring.
Knocking them out honing and using .0825 pistons.

JM 35 Sedan · 02-07-2016, 11:18 AM

This is hearsay, but I have read posts here and read articles in my Flathead engine books that mention 59 blocks with 3-1/16" bores that were made by FoMoCo strickly as service blocks for vehicles that used 24 stud engines from mid-late '38 to '42 (maybe including the war years) prior to the introduction of 59 series 3-3/16" bored engines. I don't believe these service blocks were 3-3/16" bores sleeved down to 3-1/16" bores. They were probably originally cast as 3-1/16" bore blocks. Although, who is left in the know on these things and this information today, that could say that FoMoCo didn't sleeve some original 59 3-3/16" blocks down to 3-1/16" bore on special occasions, or in emergency ssituations as required? I've been told to never say never and/or always say always when it comes to what Ford actuall made or produced on their assembly lines back in the day.

jrapose · 02-07-2016, 06:30 PM

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Sleeves are great ! they are made out of cast iron and if installed properly they are as good as a new cylinder... there is no problem with heat conduction as the sleeves are installed really tight... you need to freeze the sleeves and heat the block to install them...and they are locked at the bottom of the cylinder so they can not move...

I sure would not go any larger than needed.... one great thing about the sleeves is you can sleeve an engine back to a stock bore... great repair...

Joel
Retired Shop Teacher

Tim Ayers · 02-07-2016, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JM 35 Sedan

This is hearsay, but I have read posts here and read articles in my Flathead engine books that mention 59 blocks with 3-1/16" bores that were made by FoMoCo strickly as service blocks for vehicles that used 24 stud engines from mid-late '38 to '42 (maybe including the war years) prior to the introduction of 59 series 3-3/16" bored engines. I don't believe these service blocks were 3-3/16" bores sleeved down to 3-1/16" bores. They were probably originally cast as 3-1/16" bore blocks. Although, who is left in the know on these things and this info today, that could say that FoMoCo didn't sleeve some original 59 3-3/16" blocks up to 3-1/16" bore on special occasions, or in emergencies as required? I've been told to never say never and/or always say always when it comes to what Ford actuall made or produced on their assembly lines back in the day.

You are correct. I had one of these mythical beasts. Not sleeved, but 3 1/16" bore with 59 cast clear as day on the bell. Bought it early on before I really knew about flatheads. Sold it before using it.

JSeery · 02-07-2016, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrapose

Sleeves are great ! they are made out of cast iron and if installed properly they are as good as a new cylinder... there is no problem with heat conduction as the sleeves are installed really tight... you need to freeze the sleeves and heat the block to install them...and they are locked at the bottom of the cylinder so they can not move...

I sure would not go any larger than needed.... one great thing about the sleeves is you can sleeve an engine back to a stock bore... great repair...

Joel
Retired Shop Teacher

I believe there are two (at least) types of sleeves used in flatheads. One is the thicker cast iron and the other is a very thin steel sleeve.

alchemy · 02-09-2016, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JM 35 Sedan

This is hearsay, but I have read posts here and read articles in my Flathead engine books that mention 59 blocks with 3-1/16" bores that were made by FoMoCo strickly as service blocks for vehicles that used 24 stud engines from mid-late '38 to '42 (maybe including the war years) prior to the introduction of 59 series 3-3/16" bored engines. I don't believe these service blocks were 3-3/16" bores sleeved down to 3-1/16" bores. They were probably originally cast as 3-1/16" bore blocks. Although, who is left in the know on these things and this info today, that could say that FoMoCo didn't sleeve some original 59 3-3/16" blocks up to 3-1/16" bore on special occasions, or in emergencies as required? I've been told to never say never and/or always say always when it comes to what Ford actuall made or produced on their assembly lines back in the day.

My Dad has an NOS 59 block with the 3-1/16" bore. No sleeves in it. He bought it covered in factory cosmoline, as a bare block with no internals.

I've never seen a block with a 59 casting that had the stock tin sleeves. Lots of people call the 1938 to 1948 blocks a "59", but they are lumping the early 24 studs into where they shouldn't.

GB SISSON · 02-09-2016, 03:49 PM

I have a block cast with the 59 on the bell in my stand right now. 3 1/16 bore. At first I was disappointed it had the small bore, but heck it's got some nice thick walls and I rarely drive over 40 mph anyhow.. It is currently .060 over with a very light ridge which I removed and then honed. When I had my '38 an old guy referred to it's steel sleeved engine as "one of them soup can motors".

Lawson Cox · 02-09-2016, 04:54 PM

Re: crap in a 59 block; Piss in a SBC.

Tim Ayers · 02-09-2016, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawson cox

re: Crap in a 59 block; piss in a sbc.

lol!

Walt Dupont--Me. · 02-09-2016, 09:31 PM

I've built a few of those 59 blocks 3-1/16 with no sleeves. I always bore them to 3-3/16, BUT, you could install the 3-1/16 tin can sleeves but you have to cut the step on top, The cast iron sleeves are usually 3/32 or 1/8 wall. I wouldn't sleeve a block unless it had a real bad wall, there is plenty of oversize pistons, 3-1/16 or the 3-3/16. Walt

Bored&Stroked · 02-10-2016, 09:07 AM

I agree with Walt - just go to a 3 3/16 bore and have a nice 239 cubic inch motor (stock crank). There is no reason to bore the block for thick sleeves - as it actually weakens the block (especially with 8 sleeves).

Plenty of room in most of these old engines for a 3 3/16 bore . . . and pistons/rings galore (wow, that rhymed . . . I'm getting good!).

02-07-2016, 07:19 AM	#1
OLD AS I Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Oakwood, ON Canada Posts: 251	crap in a 59 block Some years ago I got a complete '46 (basket case) 59 engine. Just striped it down to have it checked. Have a high pressure hot water washer so I thought Id wash it down and blow out the water jackets. I couldn't believe the stuff that came out, all kinds of maple tree seeds, the "helicopters" we called them as kids, dirt, sand, plastic strips. Are these water passages big enough to allow mice to nest inside ? Will be telling shop to extra flush it if it checks out ok. Clyds appear sleeved, are all these blocks sleeved from factory ? Should I stay away from rebuilding a sleeved engine, ? are sleeves readily available ? can a sleeved engine be bored if needed ? pros and cons about a sleeved block ? Last edited by oldasi; 02-07-2016 at 09:01 AM. Reason: futher questions

02-07-2016, 08:03 AM	#2
Walt Dupont--Me. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Gardiner Me. Posts: 4,200	Re: crap in a 59 block NO, the 59 engine did not come from the factory sleeved. Some one has sleeved the block. If I was you I'd try to find a shop that has a baking oven to bake the block and run it through a short peen machine. Walt

02-07-2016, 09:49 AM	#3
Bored&Stroked Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 5,068	Re: crap in a 59 block Hmmmm . . . I have seen 59 engines (where just the 59 was on the back) have the thin tin-can sleeves - and the smaller 221 bores as a result. Have never built one myself, but I've heard you can knock the sleeves out of then, do a slight bore/hone and be somewhere north of 3 3/16 (239 cubes).

02-07-2016, 11:06 AM	#4
flatheadmurre Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Sweden Posts: 3,045	Re: crap in a 59 block The idee of the tin can sleeves was to be able to rebuild without boring. Knocking them out honing and using .0825 pistons.

02-07-2016, 11:18 AM	#5
JM 35 Sedan Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Near Rising Sun, Maryland Posts: 10,858	Re: crap in a 59 block This is hearsay, but I have read posts here and read articles in my Flathead engine books that mention 59 blocks with 3-1/16" bores that were made by FoMoCo strickly as service blocks for vehicles that used 24 stud engines from mid-late '38 to '42 (maybe including the war years) prior to the introduction of 59 series 3-3/16" bored engines. I don't believe these service blocks were 3-3/16" bores sleeved down to 3-1/16" bores. They were probably originally cast as 3-1/16" bore blocks. Although, who is left in the know on these things and this information today, that could say that FoMoCo didn't sleeve some original 59 3-3/16" blocks down to 3-1/16" bore on special occasions, or in emergency ssituations as required? I've been told to never say never and/or always say always when it comes to what Ford actuall made or produced on their assembly lines back in the day. __________________ *John* *"Never give up on what you really want to do. The person with big dreams is more powerful than one with all the facts". Albert Einstein* Last edited by JM 35 Sedan; 02-10-2016 at 09:42 AM.

02-07-2016, 06:30 PM	#6
jrapose Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 249	Re: crap in a 59 block Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Sleeves are great ! they are made out of cast iron and if installed properly they are as good as a new cylinder... there is no problem with heat conduction as the sleeves are installed really tight... you need to freeze the sleeves and heat the block to install them...and they are locked at the bottom of the cylinder so they can not move... I sure would not go any larger than needed.... one great thing about the sleeves is you can sleeve an engine back to a stock bore... great repair... Joel Retired Shop Teacher

02-09-2016, 03:49 PM	#10
GB SISSON Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Orcas Island Washington Posts: 4,940	Re: crap in a 59 block I have a block cast with the 59 on the bell in my stand right now. 3 1/16 bore. At first I was disappointed it had the small bore, but heck it's got some nice thick walls and I rarely drive over 40 mph anyhow.. It is currently .060 over with a very light ridge which I removed and then honed. When I had my '38 an old guy referred to it's steel sleeved engine as "one of them soup can motors". __________________ Owner/Operator of 'Jailbar Ranch' on the side of Mt. Pickett. Current stable consists of 1946 1/2 ton pickup turned woodie wagon with FH V8, 1947 Tonner Pickup (red) mostly stock with exception of a cummins 6at turbo diesel, 1946 Tonner Pickup (green) with 226 cu in 6 cyl flathead, 1979 Toyota landcruiser wagon, completely encased in 1947 Ford Jailbar sheet metal. Ok, cornbinder rear fenders..... 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson)

02-09-2016, 04:54 PM	#11
Lawson Cox Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Above the gnat line in Georgia Posts: 7,009	Re: crap in a 59 block Re: crap in a 59 block; Piss in a SBC. __________________ Life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer to the end, the faster it goes. It is better to be seen, than viewed. "We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm".

02-09-2016, 09:31 PM	#13
Walt Dupont--Me. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Gardiner Me. Posts: 4,200	Re: crap in a 59 block I've built a few of those 59 blocks 3-1/16 with no sleeves. I always bore them to 3-3/16, BUT, you could install the 3-1/16 tin can sleeves but you have to cut the step on top, The cast iron sleeves are usually 3/32 or 1/8 wall. I wouldn't sleeve a block unless it had a real bad wall, there is plenty of oversize pistons, 3-1/16 or the 3-3/16. Walt

02-10-2016, 09:07 AM	#14
Bored&Stroked Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 5,068	Re: crap in a 59 block I agree with Walt - just go to a 3 3/16 bore and have a nice 239 cubic inch motor (stock crank). There is no reason to bore the block for thick sleeves - as it actually weakens the block (especially with 8 sleeves). Plenty of room in most of these old engines for a 3 3/16 bore . . . and pistons/rings galore (wow, that rhymed . . . I'm getting good!).