The Ford Barn

FrankWest · 07-08-2021, 12:08 PM

thanks..That answers the question. Shifting always seemed fine while driving.

FrankWest · 07-08-2021, 01:15 PM

here is a photo of the shifter top. I noticed that one rail has groves in it? Should these be aligned with the plunger????
Anyway I have to slide one of these rails to install the new plungers.
Are these pegs/pins that hold the rails in place?

DavidG · 07-08-2021, 02:43 PM

Both rods/rails have notches in them; those at the top in your photo are simply hidden and if you move the fork, they'll be there. The forks are attached to the rods/rails with rivets that show up in your photo. You'll have to slide the larger of the two forks all the way to the right (in your photo) for the rail to clear the spring-loaded cups that are in place between the two rods/rails in the raised casting in the left center of your photo that corresponds with the threaded hole outside from which you removed the slotted plug. Are you really, really sure you want to do this?

FrankWest · 07-08-2021, 03:25 PM

not really, I don't want to make my vehicle inoperable. Looking at van pelts book does not really help much.

Terry,OH · 07-09-2021, 12:05 PM

first remove the cover screw which is about the hardest part of the job since a torch may be necessary to heat the casting around the cover screw. Don't try to force it out you will do too much damage and you want to reuse it. A screwdriver can be used in the slot but the slot is not made to take force.
Then remove the pin holding the shift fork to the rod that is covering the parts you want to replace. Use a long drift from the top and tap the pin out. You will replace the pin with a split pin (tension pin) from the hardware store 3/16 x 1" long upon reassembly.
Once the fork is loose on it's rod move the rod to the welsh plug covering the hole in the housing casting and tap the rod through the welsh plug this will remove the plug without damage to it, save it for re installation. The rod can now be moved out of the way and the old parts you wish to replace can be removed, the hole for the parts can be cleaned out and then lube the new parts with either a light grease or heavy oil including the spring and insert them back in place. Replace the rod push down on the new parts assembly so the rod can go over the parts push the rod through the fork and insert the new split pin to lock the fork and rod together. replace the welsh plug and use a drift to tap it in it's center to expand the plug and lock it back in position. Replace the cover screw.

Your looking at an hour job if you have the long drift to remove the old pin holding the fork and rod together. Wear gloves to keep your hands clean. You already have posted a photo of the assembly which may assist in reassembly. If your unsure of your ability to do mechanical work, clean the shift housing and send it to Mac.

FrankWest · 07-09-2021, 01:03 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry,OH

first remove the cover screw which is about the hardest part of the job since a torch may be necessary to heat the casting around the cover screw. Don't try to force it out you will do too much damage and you want to reuse it. A screwdriver can be used in the slot but the slot is not made to take force.
Then remove the pin holding the shift fork to the rod that is covering the parts you want to replace. Use a long drift from the top and tap the pin out. You will replace the pin with a split pin (tension pin) from the hardware store 3/16 x 1" long upon reassembly.
Once the fork is loose on it's rod move the rod to the welsh plug covering the hole in the housing casting and tap the rod through the welsh plug this will remove the plug without damage to it, save it for re installation. The rod can now be moved out of the way and the old parts you wish to replace can be removed, the hole for the parts can be cleaned out and then lube the new parts with either a light grease or heavy oil including the spring and insert them back in place. Replace the rod push down on the new parts assembly so the rod can go over the parts push the rod through the fork and insert the new split pin to lock the fork and rod together. replace the welsh plug and use a drift to tap it in it's center to expand the plug and lock it back in position. Replace the cover screw.

Your looking at an hour job if you have the long drift to remove the old pin holding the fork and rod together. Wear gloves to keep your hands clean. You already have posted a photo of the assembly which may assist in reassembly. If your unsure of your ability to do mechanical work, clean the shift housing and send it to Mac.

Thanks Terry

FrankWest · 07-12-2021, 01:05 PM

I need help.
I put my shift tower back on and the shifter is not right.
Now when I was contemplating installing the new plungers " which I did not do", I unscrewed the shift lever cap and removed it. Now, I thought I placed it back in right, but was wrong. Any help in reinstalling the shifter lever back into the tower will be greatly appreciated.

cas3 · 07-12-2021, 01:28 PM

If the trans is in neutral it should drop rite in. straight down, be careful not to drop the little pin on the right side into the trans. once in place, you need to put some down pressure on the lever to get the cap threads started. thinking some more, I said straight down, and you have a slanted tower. look in the hole, aim for the space in the shift forks, which should be lined up together if its in neutral.

FrankWest · 07-12-2021, 02:38 PM

Thanks.
I spoke with Van Pelt himself and he said they would add the tower detents and reinstall
the shift lever for under $150.00. Sounds cheap. Except he said my problem of slipping out of 2nd during power down would not be cured by adding the detents.
I would really like to reinstall the shifter lever myself at least before I do anything else.
He said to align the two indents on the slider rods before inserting the shift lever.
Looking into the shift tower it looks like the is only ONE POCKET where the shifter end can go.

FrankWest · 07-12-2021, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cas3

If the trans is in neutral it should drop rite in. straight down, be careful not to drop the little pin on the right side into the trans. once in place, you need to put some down pressure on the lever to get the cap threads started. thinking some more, I said straight down, and you have a slanted tower. look in the hole, aim for the space in the shift forks, which should be lined up together if its in neutral.

How do you know the transmission is in neutral if the shifter rod is not installed?

cas3 · 07-12-2021, 05:11 PM

Each shift fork has a squarish hole that the shift lever goes into. when in neutral, the two squares make sort of a rectangle, imagine when you move your shifter from the 1st & reverse track over to the 2nd and third track, the lever goes back and fourth across this rectangle. If the trans is in gear, instead of the big rectangle, you will see that one of the boxes has moved forward or back to make two boxes, not a wide rectangle of the boxes being side by side. you can stick a big screw driver in there and pry them back together. I think with all your trouble here, you should make sure the trans turns once you have confirmed the forks are in neutral, because it is possible you did not have the forks in the gears proper so it would end up in two gears at once, and not turn no matter where the shifter is. get it in neutral, then jack up the rear and turn the tires, both in the same direction at once. physical fitness test for you !

FrankWest · 07-12-2021, 06:33 PM

Thanks for all the help..
One lesson learned.. Never take anything apart if it is working.
I feel really bad that I messed around with it.

DavidG · 07-12-2021, 07:50 PM

It may not be over as those instructions are for the shift lever housing and there remains the minor matter of aligning the gears in neutral so that the forks fit the gears.

A simpler way to place the shift lever housing is to count the detents on the rods. There are three on each rod. Center the fork on the middle of the three on both rods and you're in neutral.

cas3 · 07-12-2021, 10:16 PM

Yes David, I am afraid if the tower was not in neutral when he took it off, or if he missed a fork putting the tower back on, it may end up in two gears. Not that hard Frank, maybe take the tower back off, get the shift rails in neutral, and make sure the forks hit the slots in the gear when you drop it down. If the tower is in neutral, and doesnt match the slot in the syncro hub, then its in gear and needs to be moved to neutral, which is when you can see both brass syncro rings

Brian · 07-12-2021, 11:44 PM

looking at Franks photo of the inverted gearbox top, it is apparent it is in 2nd gear.

cas3 · 07-13-2021, 12:50 AM

thank you Brian for some wisdom here !

DavidG · 07-13-2021, 05:13 AM

And in the photo of the gearbox with the top off, the first and reverse sliding gear is in reverse.

Mac VP · 07-13-2021, 05:53 AM

Frank, we have the instructions for putting the shifter forks into neutral…..and for setting the gears into neutral……on our website. The first link is for setting the shifter forks & rails. The second link shows how to position the gears into their neutral position. The examples are of the upright 36-39 shifter housings but the process is the same.

http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/f...sinneutral.htm

http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/f...nneutral-1.htm

Terry,OH · 07-13-2021, 07:31 AM

Frank: I have to disagree with your conclusion in post #32 above. You have had the ability to learn a lot by removing the transmission shift top, and one way to reassemble it. IMO once you get it together then take it apart again to look at the end play of 2nd gear and weather the syncro hub is moving properly. Your not going to gain self confidence in your ability without doing.

FrankWest · 07-13-2021, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry,OH

Frank: I have to disagree with your conclusion in post #32 above. You have had the ability to learn a lot by removing the transmission shift top, and one way to reassemble it. IMO once you get it together then take it apart again to look at the end play of 2nd gear and weather the syncro hub is moving properly. Your not going to gain self confidence in your ability without doing.

true words of wisdom.
I have to remember that I bought this car to learn.
I should not be so afraid.
I originally started this dismantling to attempt to fix the slipping out of 2nd gear... I should see it through to fix and not just reassemble back to have the same problem.
I am removing the tower today.
Then jacking up the car and put on stands. Then try to rotate the rear wheels to see if it is in gear or not.
Thanks for all your help end encouragement.
I will keep you posted.

07-08-2021, 12:08 PM	#21
FrankWest Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 3,005	Re: 1933 transmission tower plunger thanks..That answers the question. Shifting always seemed fine while driving.

07-08-2021, 02:43 PM	#23
DavidG Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: southeastern Michigan Posts: 10,101	Re: 1933 transmission tower plunger Both rods/rails have notches in them; those at the top in your photo are simply hidden and if you move the fork, they'll be there. The forks are attached to the rods/rails with rivets that show up in your photo. You'll have to slide the larger of the two forks all the way to the right (in your photo) for the rail to clear the spring-loaded cups that are in place between the two rods/rails in the raised casting in the left center of your photo that corresponds with the threaded hole outside from which you removed the slotted plug. Are you really, really sure you want to do this?

07-08-2021, 03:25 PM	#24
FrankWest Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 3,005	Re: 1933 transmission tower plunger not really, I don't want to make my vehicle inoperable. Looking at van pelts book does not really help much.

07-09-2021, 12:05 PM	#25
Terry,OH Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,751	Re: 1933 transmission tower plunger first remove the cover screw which is about the hardest part of the job since a torch may be necessary to heat the casting around the cover screw. Don't try to force it out you will do too much damage and you want to reuse it. A screwdriver can be used in the slot but the slot is not made to take force. Then remove the pin holding the shift fork to the rod that is covering the parts you want to replace. Use a long drift from the top and tap the pin out. You will replace the pin with a split pin (tension pin) from the hardware store 3/16 x 1" long upon reassembly. Once the fork is loose on it's rod move the rod to the welsh plug covering the hole in the housing casting and tap the rod through the welsh plug this will remove the plug without damage to it, save it for re installation. The rod can now be moved out of the way and the old parts you wish to replace can be removed, the hole for the parts can be cleaned out and then lube the new parts with either a light grease or heavy oil including the spring and insert them back in place. Replace the rod push down on the new parts assembly so the rod can go over the parts push the rod through the fork and insert the new split pin to lock the fork and rod together. replace the welsh plug and use a drift to tap it in it's center to expand the plug and lock it back in position. Replace the cover screw. Your looking at an hour job if you have the long drift to remove the old pin holding the fork and rod together. Wear gloves to keep your hands clean. You already have posted a photo of the assembly which may assist in reassembly. If your unsure of your ability to do mechanical work, clean the shift housing and send it to Mac. Last edited by Terry,OH; 07-09-2021 at 12:15 PM.

07-12-2021, 01:05 PM	#27
FrankWest Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 3,005	Re: 1933 transmission tower plunger I need help. I put my shift tower back on and the shifter is not right. Now when I was contemplating installing the new plungers " which I did not do", I unscrewed the shift lever cap and removed it. Now, I thought I placed it back in right, but was wrong. Any help in reinstalling the shifter lever back into the tower will be greatly appreciated.

07-12-2021, 01:28 PM	#28
cas3 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: sw minnesota Posts: 4,577	Re: 1933 transmission tower plunger If the trans is in neutral it should drop rite in. straight down, be careful not to drop the little pin on the right side into the trans. once in place, you need to put some down pressure on the lever to get the cap threads started. thinking some more, I said straight down, and you have a slanted tower. look in the hole, aim for the space in the shift forks, which should be lined up together if its in neutral. Last edited by cas3; 07-12-2021 at 01:32 PM. Reason: to add

07-12-2021, 02:38 PM	#29
FrankWest Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 3,005	Re: 1933 transmission tower plunger Thanks. I spoke with Van Pelt himself and he said they would add the tower detents and reinstall the shift lever for under $150.00. Sounds cheap. Except he said my problem of slipping out of 2nd during power down would not be cured by adding the detents. I would really like to reinstall the shifter lever myself at least before I do anything else. He said to align the two indents on the slider rods before inserting the shift lever. Looking into the shift tower it looks like the is only ONE POCKET where the shifter end can go.

07-12-2021, 05:11 PM	#31
cas3 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: sw minnesota Posts: 4,577	Re: 1933 transmission tower plunger Each shift fork has a squarish hole that the shift lever goes into. when in neutral, the two squares make sort of a rectangle, imagine when you move your shifter from the 1st & reverse track over to the 2nd and third track, the lever goes back and fourth across this rectangle. If the trans is in gear, instead of the big rectangle, you will see that one of the boxes has moved forward or back to make two boxes, not a wide rectangle of the boxes being side by side. you can stick a big screw driver in there and pry them back together. I think with all your trouble here, you should make sure the trans turns once you have confirmed the forks are in neutral, because it is possible you did not have the forks in the gears proper so it would end up in two gears at once, and not turn no matter where the shifter is. get it in neutral, then jack up the rear and turn the tires, both in the same direction at once. physical fitness test for you !

07-12-2021, 06:33 PM	#32
FrankWest Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 3,005	Re: 1933 transmission tower plunger Thanks for all the help.. One lesson learned.. Never take anything apart if it is working. I feel really bad that I messed around with it.

07-12-2021, 07:50 PM	#33
DavidG Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: southeastern Michigan Posts: 10,101	Re: 1933 transmission tower plunger It may not be over as those instructions are for the shift lever housing and there remains the minor matter of aligning the gears in neutral so that the forks fit the gears. A simpler way to place the shift lever housing is to count the detents on the rods. There are three on each rod. Center the fork on the middle of the three on both rods and you're in neutral.

07-12-2021, 10:16 PM	#34
cas3 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: sw minnesota Posts: 4,577	Re: 1933 transmission tower plunger Yes David, I am afraid if the tower was not in neutral when he took it off, or if he missed a fork putting the tower back on, it may end up in two gears. Not that hard Frank, maybe take the tower back off, get the shift rails in neutral, and make sure the forks hit the slots in the gear when you drop it down. If the tower is in neutral, and doesnt match the slot in the syncro hub, then its in gear and needs to be moved to neutral, which is when you can see both brass syncro rings

07-12-2021, 11:44 PM	#35
Brian Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Masterton, New Zealand Posts: 3,834	Re: 1933 transmission tower plunger looking at Franks photo of the inverted gearbox top, it is apparent it is in 2nd gear. __________________ Unfortunately, two half wits don't make a whole wit!

07-13-2021, 12:50 AM	#36
cas3 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: sw minnesota Posts: 4,577	Re: 1933 transmission tower plunger thank you Brian for some wisdom here !

07-13-2021, 05:13 AM	#37
DavidG Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: southeastern Michigan Posts: 10,101	Re: 1933 transmission tower plunger And in the photo of the gearbox with the top off, the first and reverse sliding gear is in reverse.

07-13-2021, 05:53 AM	#38
Mac VP Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 1,361	Re: 1933 transmission tower plunger Frank, we have the instructions for putting the shifter forks into neutral…..and for setting the gears into neutral……on our website. The first link is for setting the shifter forks & rails. The second link shows how to position the gears into their neutral position. The examples are of the upright 36-39 shifter housings but the process is the same. http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/f...sinneutral.htm http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/f...nneutral-1.htm __________________ VANPELT SALES LLC Cincinnati, Ohio Office: 513-724-9486 www.vanpeltsales.com www.classictransmission.com

07-13-2021, 07:31 AM	#39
Terry,OH Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,751	Re: 1933 transmission tower plunger Frank: I have to disagree with your conclusion in post #32 above. You have had the ability to learn a lot by removing the transmission shift top, and one way to reassemble it. IMO once you get it together then take it apart again to look at the end play of 2nd gear and weather the syncro hub is moving properly. Your not going to gain self confidence in your ability without doing.