What do you think of this Babbitt

[Kurt in NJ]

This set of caps is ready to be cut to fit the crankshaft, I didn't pour them, but I know where it was done

[J and M Machine]

Kurt: Looks like was peened with KRW tool ,not good enough.
if you are going to use them on your own car i would suggest peening them yourself. We have a special tip for our air hammer. We reduce air pressure and peen aross entire surface enusre a tight fit.
www.jandm-machine.com

[Joe K]

ID yet to be machined. Ok with that.

Is it my eye or the distance between the camera and cap or do those "ramps" at exit and entrance go right to the shell?

Is this normal? Might these be thin at the flange/parting? A cast in ramp I might consider possible, but aren't the ramps normally machined as part of the grooving? And to leave SOMETHING at the cap and block mating surface?

Joe K

Edit: The J&M pix from the other thread is more what I might expect from the ramps. Smaller and leaving some metal at the match line.

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Originally Posted by Joe K

ID yet to be machined. Ok with that.

Is it my eye or the distance between the camera and cap or do those "ramps" at exit and entrance go right to the shell?

Is this normal? Might these be thin at the flange/parting? A cast in ramp I might consider possible, but aren't the ramps normally machined as part of the grooving? And to leave SOMETHING at the cap and block mating surface?

Joe K

Edit: The J&M pix from the other thread is more what I might expect from the ramps. Smaller and leaving some metal at the match line.

That is the way we have always done it.

If the caps are poured right, they will not fail.

So always run the oil wells to the steel, to get the most capacity for the oil wells.

Herm.

[1crosscut]

Originally Posted by Kohnke Rebabbitting

That is the way we have always done it.

If the caps are poured right, they will not fail.

So always run the oil wells to the steel, to get the most capacity for the oil wells.

Herm.

Herm,

That engine looks very familiar. Still running great after several thousand miles. Thanks!!!

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

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Originally Posted by 1crosscut

Herm,

That engine looks very familiar. Still running great after several thousand miles. Thanks!!!

Hey, Dave, I wonder about you once in a while.

I am glad you are making use of that nice original truck. It sure looks different then when you pulled it out of the old shed after 60 years.

I wish I had it, and you had a better one.

Take care,


Herm.

[372dart]

when should Babbitt should peened? warm or cold? Make more than one pour, and peen after each pour? If you did not peen at all, wouldn't the Babbitt fall out line-boring?

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Originally Posted by 372dart

when should Babbitt should peened? warm or cold? Make more than one pour, and peen after each pour? If you did not peen at all, wouldn't the Babbitt fall out line-boring?

Mr. Dart, Babbitt should be peened just as soon as you can remove the mold, with out breaking the babbitt lining.

The colder the babbitt gets, the more of a chance you will fracture the babbitt, and the bad thing is you can't see it from the out side.

I use a pneumatic hammer, it covers 100% of the area, a little at a time.

I have seen loose babbitt that you could move in the block, but that is rare.

You may not notice it while align Boring.

Thanks,

Herm.

[darrylkmc]

Originally Posted by J and M Machine

Kurt: Looks like was peened with KRW tool ,not good enough.
if you are going to use them on your own car i would suggest peening them yourself. We have a special tip for our air hammer. We reduce air pressure and peen aross entire surface enusre a tight fit.
www.jandm-machine.com

I was under the impression that the Babbitt should be peened while it is still hot/warm and somewhat malleable. I have one that was peened after it had cooled and the babbitt cracked and broke free of the cap. Darryl in a very warm and Sunny Fairbanks

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Originally Posted by Kurt in NJ

This set of caps is ready to be cut to fit the crankshaft, I didn't pour them, but I know where it was done

They are N.O.S. Ford Caps!

Herm

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Kohnke Rebabbitting

They are N.O.S. Ford Caps!

Herm

Hey Herm,
Great info/instructions and pictures that you are passing on here, thanks for sharing !
You go to front of line for instant ID of nos Ford Caps !

You also posted pics of other caps that made me remember some 'caps' that I had put in a box half century ago. Here they are, main caps. Heavy and think made of bronze/brass (?). Quiz; What are they for/from ?

Never mind the dirt on Babbitt faces , from sitting forever .

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Hey Herm,
Great info/instructions and pictures that you are passing on here, thanks for sharing !
You go to front of line for instant ID of nos Ford Caps !

You also posted pics of other caps that made me remember some 'caps' that I had put in a box half century ago. Here they are, main caps. Heavy and think made of bronze/brass (?). Quiz; What are they for/from ?

Never mind the dirt on Babbitt faces , from sitting forever .

I would say 1929 to 1930-31 Chevys Six's?

Herm.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Kohnke Rebabbitting

I would say 1929 to 1930-31 Chevys Six's?

Herm.

Hey Herm,
Wow, you are good at this !
Yup, 1930 chev six ! I had a Lost Angeles engine company ,i.e.- Egge Machine redo my short block and got these back with new in block.
Back in about '60 threw them in a box of other '30 chev parts and remembered them when you commented here.
BTW they have no 'tangs/locator' of sets .

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Hey Herm,
Wow, you are good at this !
Yup, 1930 chev six ! I had a Lost Angeles engine company ,i.e.- Egge Machine redo my short block and got these back with new in block.
Back in about '60 threw them in a box of other '30 chev parts and remembered them when you commented here.
BTW they have no 'tangs/locator' of sets .

BTW they have no 'tangs/locator' of sets. "END QUOTE"


No they don't Mr. Hardtimes, but what they do have is replaceable upper locating dowel pins in the block for the hole in the top shell to slide over, so the bearings don't spin.

Herm.

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Model T and A babbitt that has failed. The first one is a Model A that was done buy a company that does several blocks and rods a year.

[Kurt in NJ]

Yes, they are NOS,yes the rear cap was primed with air hammer, this is what you would get at the dealer when Babbitt was poured in the block -- new caps

I found some pictures and description of the process in some web reprints of American machinist, the Babbitt wasn't poured, it was done in an injection moulding machine

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Originally Posted by Kurt in NJ

Yes, they are NOS,yes the rear cap was primed with air hammer, this is what you would get at the dealer when Babbitt was poured in the block -- new caps

I found some pictures and description of the process in some web reprints of American machinist, the Babbitt wasn't poured, it was done in an injection moulding machine

Maybe, just the first Model A's were hand poured, as the movies I have seen, show that.

Herm.

[pooch]

Could you explain to a novice at machining why peening has to be done ?

Why is hot pouring not sufficient ?

Does the babbit need to be compacted ?

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Originally Posted by pooch

Could you explain to a novice at machining why peening has to be done ?

Why is hot pouring not sufficient ?

Does the babbit need to be compacted ?

Mr. Pooch, contrary to belief, when I was born, I didn't know S%$#,
but now I can answer that.

No. 1. 2. & 3. When babbitt is poured in a block warm, or cold, with out tinning, it will shrink away from the shell, nothing to grab on to. If it shrinks away, and it will, it will be loose in the block.

So being that the babbitt is not up against the block shell, you have to give it a big push to where it should be, with peening. A good side effect of peening is as you say compacting the babbitt. You have to do this while very hot, or it will fracture the babbitt against the shell wall, and you would not see untill the bearing went bad, in a few short miles, as many do.

So also if it isn't peened, the crank will do it for you when cold, and as of the many pictures on the form, you can see what happens.


Now many people mistakenly beleave that the anchor holes in the block are to hold the babbitt from falling out, and it only works when you hold the block right side up. lol

Not true, the anchor holes ar there to keep the babbitt insert from spinning, as a notch on a modern bearing. If the babbitt isn't peened, those anchor don't hold anything in, they just bust out on the main part of the bearing.

Thanks

Herm.

[ctlikon0712]

Thanks for the explanation Herm, Pooch wasn't the only one wondering.