Copper Oil Lines

[WRA]

All,

I have 3/8 copper lines on my cannister oil filter set up. Someone told me I should change to steel, is this nessesary?

[Jack E/NJ]

No.

Jack E/NJ

[V12Bill]

Yes!! Copper will work harden and crack from engine vibration and cause loss of oil. Same applies to gas line from fuel pump to carb. You don't want to lose oil or splash gas over a hot engine.

[Henry Hopper]

No, all refrigeration lines are copper and recieve constant viabration at a even higher frequency and are subjected to constant expansion and contraction and wide temperature variations. As long as the lines are secured there is no problem.We can buy and fit copper brake lines here in England...and believe me, this is the nanny state of all nanny states when it comes to Health and Safety issues, if they were not up to the job they would be history..pronto.

[tiquer]

I think copper might take on heat aswell as engine vibration

[ken ct]

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Theres nothing wrong with copper gas line as long as its supported well and the flex line from the firewall to the pump takes care of all vibrations from engine to body. ken ct.

[richard crow]

you say 3/8 lines i think there a bit large don,t forget restritor fitting

[David J]

The old 2 cylinder John Deeres I collect have NOTHING BUT COPPER LINES in them for oiling all the engine stuff . The entire oiling system is exposed pipes . These are hanging in the open inside the crankcase and give no noticeable problems . These things VIBRATE to say the least . I wouldn't worry about copper lines and besides who hasn't seen a steel line crack ? David J

[bbrocksr]

Most of these "copper lines" are really steel lines with a copper flash coating to prevent rust. Just because their copper colored doesn't mean they are copper.
I also collect old John Deere tractors and mine have copper coated steel lines.
Fuel pump to carburetor lines are also copper coated steel.
Copper lines will work harden and break!
Bill

[ken ct]

Originally Posted by richard crow

you say 3/8 lines i think there a bit large don,t forget restritor fitting

Yea that is kind of over kill 3/16 would be better. ken ct.

[Henry Hopper]

Originally Posted by bbrocksr

Most of these "copper lines" are really steel lines with a copper flash coating to prevent rust. Just because their copper colored doesn't mean they are copper.
I also collect old John Deere tractors and mine have copper coated steel lines.
Fuel pump to carburetor lines are also copper coated steel.
Copper lines will work harden and break!
Bill

No they won`t, or not any more than a steel line would subject to viabration....look at stress cracks on fenders and early Ford bodies..steel gets brittle with work hardening as well....it is fine to run copper...I use it in the refrigeration industry and it is subject to some really high pressures these days with the new generation refrigerants as well as viabration from compressors running at high speeds.If the lines are fitted and secured properly there is no problem....you could argue that steel lines are dangerous because they are prone to rusting where the coatings wear off..a nicely corroded steel brake line subjected to high hydraulic force.

I guess it is all down to personal choice at the end of the day.

[flatheadfan]

If I recall correctly, I remember the professor I had for an organic chemistry course (about 50 years ago!!), said that copper can act as a quasi-catalyst in the oxidation of longer-chained liquid carbon compounds. Meaning, the exposure of a hydrocarbon compounds (such as lubricating oil) to copper would alter the properties of the HC . If this is still valid, I would guess the prolong exposure of an engine oil to a copper line is not what you would want to do. I vote for steel!

Tom

[bbrocksr]

Originally Posted by Henry Hopper

No they won`t, or not any more than a steel line would subject to viabration....look at stress cracks on fenders and early Ford bodies..steel gets brittle with work hardening as well....it is fine to run copper...I use it in the refrigeration industry and it is subject to some really high pressures these days with the new generation refrigerants as well as viabration from compressors running at high speeds.If the lines are fitted and secured properly there is no problem....you could argue that steel lines are dangerous because they are prone to rusting where the coatings wear off..a nicely corroded steel brake line subjected to high hydraulic force.

I guess it is all down to personal choice at the end of the day.

Henry, How many auto manufacturers use copper for fuel and oil lines as original equipment? Bill

[Henry Hopper]

Originally Posted by bbrocksr

Henry, How many auto manufacturers use copper for fuel and oil lines as original equipment? Bill

Bill, I would say probably none...purely down to costs...but as I mentioned earlier, you can buy it here at the local parts store..it has the British Standard Mark on it, which means it is fit for purpose....with the litigation heavy society we have inherited, if it was a risk factor it would be banned...and they just love banning things over here lol.(all for our own good of course)

on a side note....copper is almost £5k a ton for clean copper scrap at the moment here....thieves are cutting pressurised fridge plant lines to weight them in for scrap....I`d hate to get in my car and find some scumbag had nicked my brake pipes and they were off to China....

Regarding oem brake pipes...they are made from flat steel rolled into a tube and soldered along the entire joint...when I first left school I was an apprentice at TVR sportscars and built the rolling chassis and motor trains, this entailed cutting and forming the brake pipes as one of the jobs...I handled miles of the stuff, it always struck me as wierd that a brake tube would be solded into a tube and not cold drawn.

[David J]

Originally Posted by bbrocksr

Most of these "copper lines" are really steel lines with a copper flash coating to prevent rust. Just because their copper colored doesn't mean they are copper.
I also collect old John Deere tractors and mine have copper coated steel lines.
Fuel pump to carburetor lines are also copper coated steel.
Copper lines will work harden and break!
Bill

Not sure what you collect but 35 B's have copper oil lines . I have 17 of them . The fuel lines are copper plated steel .

[Fe26]

Originally Posted by flatheadfan

If I recall correctly, I remember the professor I had for an organic chemistry course (about 50 years ago!!), said that copper can act as a quasi-catalyst in the oxidation of longer-chained liquid carbon compounds. Meaning, the exposure of a hydrocarbon compounds (such as lubricating oil) to copper would alter the properties of the HC . If this is still valid, I would guess the prolong exposure of an engine oil to a copper line is not what you would want to do. I vote for steel!

Tom

I've heard about those kinds of proffesors, the really brainy types that can prove that white is black and black is white. They then get run over the next time they use a pedestrian crossing.

[Charlie ny]

WRA,
There is some really cheesey copper tubing available and there
is some great automotive grade tubing. Get the good the good stuff....
you'll know because it's more expensive and thicker wall and don't sweat
the details. Loose the oil filter too...it only robs volume and pressure.
Charlie ny

[Teich]

Copper brake lines are a bad idea, will break and leak, one of my first jobs as an apprentice mechanic was replacing leaking brake lines , they were copper because the others there didn't know how to double flare steel tube, the new guy looked for a short bit Laurie

[Ronnie]

Looks like a real can of worms going on here.What is left to dispute about copper lines.Appears there is no real place for copper lines anywhere!! "LOL" Looks like there is something in the drinking water to me.

Ronnie

[Flat Ernie]

All metals will work harden and fail. (well, maybe not mercury...haha!)

If you have a vibration loop and the lines are supported properly, there should be no issue.

The UK does not use pure copper in automotive use - they use a copper-nickel alloy - trade name is Kunifer or cupro-nickel - used as OEM by none other than Volvo and other higher-end OEMs.

I've used Kuniver/Cupro-Nickel for brakes - it bends & flares easier than steel, but much tougher than pure copper.

I think copper got a bad rap early on because many folks did single flares - these will fail quicker with vibration.

Just my $.02