Model B generator

[Doctor's Ford]

Could some of you describe the differences, if any, between a model A and a model B generator? Thank you. Manuel

[Kurt in NJ]

instead of the end of the field wire being grounded inside it was brought out to be hooked to a baisic voltage regulator, when not regulator it was to be connected to cutout screw as ground, , the front plate and rear plate was die cast, the brush holders are different, as assemblys the parts mostly interchange, the later generator was used as replacement for all years

[Tom Wesenberg]

Also the front and rear end plates have a beveled outer edge.

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by Kurt in NJ

instead of the end of the field wire being grounded inside it was brought out to be hooked to a baisic voltage regulator, when not regulator it was to be connected to cutout screw as ground, , the front plate and rear plate was die cast, the brush holders are different, as assemblys the parts mostly interchange, the later generator was used as replacement for all years

Kurt,

I am revising this to say that I agree with your post. I had been incorrectly assuming reference to a Model B generator was referring to a 1932 Model B. I now realize that the question was related to a 1933 Model B.

Charlie Stephens

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Also the front and rear end plates have a beveled outer edge.

Tom,

The front and rear end plates were chamfered on the '33-'34 generators but not on the '32.

Charlie Stephens

[Doctor's Ford]

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Thank you all. That is helpful. These are some photos of the generator that came with my car, a 33 model B, taken some years ago. There are two issues that I would like to clarify:

1) This rear plate has 7 holes close to the edge and I think the edges are chamffered as described by Tom & Charlie. The majority of the generators I see have a solid rear plate with no holes. Do model B cars have the holes and model As have a solid rear plate?

2) The 3rd photo shows how the generator is mounted on my model B. Can I mount any model A generator directly on the model B block? Are all the brackets interchangeable?

[Charlie Stephens]

Manuel,

I would like to make a suggestion. When you said Model B I assumed you meant '32. You are correct calling your 4 cylinder 1933 a Model B but I think it is causing a lot of confusion (at least with me). I think you would have better luck if you referred to your car as a '33 4-cylinder.

None of the Model A or 1932 end plates had holes. Early 1933 did not have holes but the later ones did (in the United States). The Model A generator should work on the 1933 since the later 4 cylinder generator was used 1928-1934 according to the Green Bible. There is something wrong with the way the bracket is welded onto your generator, I will get some pictures in the morning.

Charlie Stephens

[Tom Wesenberg]

Someone sure cobbled that generator with the two welded brackets. Generators don't need the tension bracket, as the mounting bolt holds them tight enough. The belt only needs to be tight enough so the fan and generator don't slip.


The B generator with cooling holes can safely put out more amps, but the original Model A generator can supply all the amps the stock car needs.

[Kurt in NJ]

That modification to the bracket could be to use the 33-34 front timing cover with 28-32 crankshaft pulley--- the 33-4 crankshaft pulley is shorter, the bracket boss on timing cover was moved back to match

[Bob C]

Originally Posted by Kurt in NJ

That modification to the bracket could be to use the 33-34 front timing cover with 28-32 crankshaft pulley--- the 33-4 crankshaft pulley is shorter, the bracket boss on timing cover was moved back to match

I don't think that is the case as the 1933-34 water pump is shorter
because of the slope of the radiator and it wouldn't line up.


Also I think the 1933-34 is a Model 40 not a Model B.



Bob

[Charlie Stephens]

For your info here is the correct '33-'34 bracket. I agree with Kurt that someone had a '33-'34 timing cover on an engine mounted in a 1928-32 Ford vehicle and relocated the rear bracket and added washers to make it fit. The good news is that the quality welds holding on the bracket looks so poor that you could probably remove the bracket with a chisel and go back to the correct one.

Charlie Stephens

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by Bob C

I don't think that is the case as the 1933-34 water pump is shorter
because of the slope of the radiator and it wouldn't line up.


Also I think the 1933-34 is a Model 40 not a Model B.



Bob

I am sure Kurt just assumed the water pump would also be replaced. Here are the two water pumps for reference. The '32 is on the left and is the same length as the Model A. The '33-'34 is on the right and shorter.

Charlie Stephens

[Bob C]

Originally Posted by Charlie Stephens

I am sure Kurt just assumed the water pump would also be replaced. Here are the two water pumps for reference. The '32 is on the left and is the same length as the Model A. The '33-'34 is on the right and shorter.

Charlie Stephens

You can't use the long water pump on a1933-34 because the fan will hit the radiator. See the link to Vince's site. http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/mode...umphousing.htm

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by Bob C

You can't use the long water pump on a1933-34 because the fan will hit the radiator. See the link to Vince's site. http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/mode...umphousing.htm

Yes you are correct but the long pump was being discussed for when a '33-'34 engine is installed in a Model A or 32.

Charlie Stephens

[Bob C]

Originally Posted by Charlie Stephens

Yes you are correct but the long pump was being discussed for when a '33-'34 engine is installed in a Model A or 32.

Charlie Stephens

Ok, I though we were talking about the Doctors 1933.


Bob

[Doctor's Ford]

The reason I posted this question is that my generator has been a complete failure and I am looking for a replacement. I am trying to learn about it so I get one that is correct for the car. All the generators I have seen for sale are advertised for model A. I thought there would be some differences between the A and the later 4 cylinder engines and your responses are clarifying that for me.

Sorry for the confusion when referring to my car as model B. Yes, it is a model 40 but the engine is a model B. It is just my ignorance about these specific terms.

I know I have the correct timing cover and the correct water pump (see photo) but I did not know the generator bracket was modified. It takes experience to quickly pick up those details from a photo and I don't have it. This is the only Ford I have restored and don't know when or why the generator bracket was modified.

Now you leave me wondering that if I find a good generator, will I have to modify the bracket again to fit my engine?

It is not really an option for me to fix my generator. Believe me, in the country where this old Ford is located there is nobody who has a clue how to properly restore one. I spent a lot of time and effort with different shops, and 4 "restorations" later, several dead batteries, overheated and smoking generator, damaged regulators including a good electronic one from "Fun Projects" and hours of frustration, I gave up fixing my generator and want to get one that is already perfectly functional and correct for a 33 with a model B engine.

I spoke with Ed Whitney this week and I am considering his offer of building an alternator within the original generator. Last option

[Tom Wesenberg]

Your picture shows the short water pump. How does the belt line up in all 3 places?

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by Doctor's Ford

....
Now you leave me wondering that if I find a good generator, will I have to modify the bracket again to fit my engine?....

Any generator from the Model A (I would avoid the early Model A "Powerhouse" generators) thru 1934 should bolt onto your car without modifying the bracket. The only concern is that there appears to be a weld line on your bracket. I can only assume the part for where the generator mounts is in the right location. Attached is a photo of an original '33-'34 timing cover but I no longer have it so I cannot measure. Yours looks about right, but cameras can lie.

Charlie Stephens

[Kurt in NJ]

Which crankshaft pulley do you have?, the short one is 33,34, the longer one is 28-32

[Doctor's Ford]

OK, it seems you all agree my generator is correct for this 33 car with 4 cyl engine. That part of my question seems resolved.

You have noticed that a modification was made to its bracket, which was unknown to me. I searched old photos and found the ones below that I think show the long crankshaft pulley and the ugly weld on the generator bracket. As suggested by some of you, that apparently was required to modify the position of the generator to align the pulleys.

If this is indeed the long crankshaft pulley, any new generator that I install will have the same alignment problem. Is that correct?

Thank you for your comments

Manuel